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Caylee Anthony 2 years old Not reported missing for a month after she was last seen.


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  #101  
Old 04-18-2010, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Harmony2 View Post
Personally, in the grand scheme of things the heart shape sticky residue is not that important. Yes, three pieces of weathered duct tape is what is depicted in the photos. More than likely only the jury will get to see photos of the duct tape on the skull at trial.
Those photos are something that no one should ever have to view
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  #102  
Old 04-18-2010, 07:16 PM
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Those photos are something that no one should ever have to view
I so agree. Any if it never happened they would not have to see them. But, it did.
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  #103  
Old 04-18-2010, 10:08 PM
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On one hand the examiners state that there is no sticky residue left on the duct tape. On the other they state there was sticky sticker residue that was destroyed during fingerprint analysis. This does not really make much sense to me. It would make MORE sense if the inner part of the tape had retained glue then the outer EXPOSED part retaining sticker glue residual. I personally do not see anything in these photos other then three very weathered pieces of duct tape.
It looks to me like there is plenty of material left there to examine. Just the idea that there was glue there to stick to hair, indicates to me that there was non weathered fabric left in the middle. Many in the majority believe the cotton fibers deteriorated leaving it as a non matching fabric. I think there was plenty of protected fabric there and the fbi was right when they said it came from a different source/roll.

Also, LKB said she will challenge the location of the duct tape back in oct. I made a note of how these two pieces are overlapping. That is not the way people overlap duct tape. It looks more like debris that just came floating along and rested at her skull. IMO

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...his-child.html

Last edited by notthatsmart; 04-18-2010 at 10:08 PM. Reason: add link
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  #104  
Old 04-18-2010, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
It looks to me like there is plenty of material left there to examine. Just the idea that there was glue there to stick to hair, indicates to me that there was non weathered fabric left in the middle. Many in the majority believe the cotton fibers deteriorated leaving it as a non matching fabric. I think there was plenty of protected fabric there and the fbi was right when they said it came from a different source/roll.

Also, LKB said she will challenge the location of the duct tape back in oct. I made a note of how these two pieces are overlapping. That is not the way people overlap duct tape. It looks more like debris that just came floating along and rested at her skull. IMO

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...his-child.html
NTS, if you look at the FBI bench notes (which I linked for you weeks ago but don't have on this computer), you will see that we know exactly how many threads survived per inch of fabric on each piece of duct tape, and what the threads were made of. You don't have to use the pictures to figure it out.
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"It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94
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  #105  
Old 04-19-2010, 12:10 AM
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NTS, if you look at the FBI bench notes (which I linked for you weeks ago but don't have on this computer), you will see that we know exactly how many threads survived per inch of fabric on each piece of duct tape, and what the threads were made of. You don't have to use the pictures to figure it out.
Well iirc many in the majority believe the cotton deteriorated. How can they prove something was there at one time? They will need an afidavit from an official Henkel source stating that there was no duct tape of this model made without cotton. I read the email from the poster way back that had recieved an email from someone at Henkel, but have not seen anything official. So, therefore I am still looking at pictures. The Fbi findings were unexceptable by the majority. The fbi stated that the fabric was consistent with coming from a different source/roll. I am satisfied with the Fbi findings. The tape does not match at all. I was only trying to point out that the fbi had plenty of fabric to work with to make their determination. IMO
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  #106  
Old 04-19-2010, 12:52 AM
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Well iirc many in the majority believe the cotton deteriorated. How can they prove something was there at one time? They will need an afidavit from an official Henkel source stating that there was no duct tape of this model made without cotton. I read the email from the poster way back that had recieved an email from someone at Henkel, but have not seen anything official. So, therefore I am still looking at pictures. The Fbi findings were unexceptable by the majority. The fbi stated that the fabric was consistent with coming from a different source/roll. I am satisfied with the Fbi findings. The tape does not match at all. I was only trying to point out that the fbi had plenty of fabric to work with to make their determination. IMO
The Henkel docs saying that this tape was made with cotton was accompanied by an official affidavit from Henkel, which was filed with the court.

The bench notes make it perfectly clear that there was not one single difference between the gas can tape and the remains scene tape except for the missing cotton. But I agree that the FBI statement that the tape was not consistent with coming from the same source as the gas can tape is a very odd way to word the conclusion, if their actual conclusion is that it WAS consistent assuming that the cotton fibers had degraded. I am looking forward to an explanation of this issue at trial.
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"It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94
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  #107  
Old 04-19-2010, 09:14 AM
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How common is it for someone to buy more than one roll of duct tape? Extremely common. If this duct tape is a favorite of the buyer and it was being discontinued I would think someone would buy more than one roll, particularly if it was on sale. So GA could have had more than one roll in the household bought at different times. Not unusual. Because it's Henkel it is just one more piece of evidence that appears to come from the home along with the laundry basket, blanket, bags, etc.

If the person testifying in court who reported on the duct tape had stated that the duct tape WAS consistent would that not open it up for defense to argue it is not and confuse the jury. To say is isn't and then explain why it isn't would give the jury a better idea of what happened out there in the swamp, or explain that it just is not from the same roll. JMO
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  #108  
Old 04-19-2010, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
It looks to me like there is plenty of material left there to examine. Just the idea that there was glue there to stick to hair, indicates to me that there was non weathered fabric left in the middle. Many in the majority believe the cotton fibers deteriorated leaving it as a non matching fabric. I think there was plenty of protected fabric there and the fbi was right when they said it came from a different source/roll.

Also, LKB said she will challenge the location of the duct tape back in oct. I made a note of how these two pieces are overlapping. That is not the way people overlap duct tape. It looks more like debris that just came floating along and rested at her skull. IMO
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...his-child.html
Good try but what held the jaw and the hair in place?
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  #109  
Old 04-19-2010, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
It looks to me like there is plenty of material left there to examine. Just the idea that there was glue there to stick to hair, indicates to me that there was non weathered fabric left in the middle. Many in the majority believe the cotton fibers deteriorated leaving it as a non matching fabric. I think there was plenty of protected fabric there and the fbi was right when they said it came from a different source/roll.

Also, LKB said she will challenge the location of the duct tape back in oct. I made a note of how these two pieces are overlapping. That is not the way people overlap duct tape. It looks more like debris that just came floating along and rested at her skull. IMO

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...his-child.html
Can you point me to the study that describes just how people overlap duct tape?
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  #110  
Old 04-19-2010, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
It looks to me like there is plenty of material left there to examine. Just the idea that there was glue there to stick to hair, indicates to me that there was non weathered fabric left in the middle. Many in the majority believe the cotton fibers deteriorated leaving it as a non matching fabric. I think there was plenty of protected fabric there and the fbi was right when they said it came from a different source/roll.

Also, LKB said she will challenge the location of the duct tape back in oct. I made a note of how these two pieces are overlapping. That is not the way people overlap duct tape. It looks more like debris that just came floating along and rested at her skull. IMO

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...his-child.html
Can you describe the correct way to overlap duct tape so as to obstruct the nose and mouth. Complete coverage is all that is required. On a toddler that should be pretty simple.
Debris does not just come floating along and rest at the skull, the tape was firmly attached to her skull hair, and it had held the mandible in place during the entire time she was there.
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  #111  
Old 04-19-2010, 11:10 AM
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NTS, if you look at the FBI bench notes (which I linked for you weeks ago but don't have on this computer), you will see that we know exactly how many threads survived per inch of fabric on each piece of duct tape, and what the threads were made of. You don't have to use the pictures to figure it out.
They are exactly the same in every way except for the micro exam/notes... the warp for Q66 has off white cotton.... We have discussed this from all angles ad nauseum...

page 13 and 14

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFile...PEEVIDENCE.pdf
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  #112  
Old 04-19-2010, 02:44 PM
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Let me rephrase that. That is not the way people overlap duct tape in my opinion.
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  #113  
Old 04-19-2010, 02:51 PM
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Let me rephrase that. That is not the way people overlap duct tape in my opinion.
When someone is completing the act of murder, I don't think they have a tried & tested way to place duct tape. They just wrap.
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  #114  
Old 04-19-2010, 02:51 PM
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Let me rephrase that. That is not the way people overlap duct tape in my opinion.
This is quite possibly the most generalized statement I have ever read.
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  #115  
Old 04-19-2010, 03:01 PM
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I have not seen duct tape used in an X fashion. I have used duct tape many times in my life. If the duct tape is in the X fashion, then how does it attach to the hair mat at the bottom of the skull? I am curious about the fine details of the physical evidence and this is important to me. It also appears to me that the duct tape was just torn and not cut. Many have said that you can not tear duct tape. I have never cut it, I just tear it. Its easy. So were all four ends adhered to the hair mat. This should be brought up for discussion because this new picture is new to me. I wonder if that is an fbi, ocso, medical examiners photo. IMO

Last edited by notthatsmart; 04-19-2010 at 03:02 PM. Reason: add a word
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  #116  
Old 04-19-2010, 03:12 PM
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I for one am left wondering about the duct tape placement and the wording in the report. I do also realize that the photos will tell much more then a written description

As it sits now, I have a hard time believing that the duct tape was in such a state that it was still "adhered" to anything. And the notion that it was adhered tight enough to still hold the mandible in place for that length of time, under the conditions that have been set forth is questionable to me.
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  #117  
Old 04-19-2010, 03:35 PM
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I for one am left wondering about the duct tape placement and the wording in the report. I do also realize that the photos will tell much more then a written description

As it sits now, I have a hard time believing that the duct tape was in such a state that it was still "adhered" to anything. And the notion that it was adhered tight enough to still hold the mandible in place for that length of time, under the conditions that have been set forth is questionable to me.
Read Dr Garavaglia's post mortem report. She's the expert, she was there.
If still not satisified read Dr Utz and Dr Schultz' report. They are also experts.
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  #118  
Old 04-19-2010, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
I have not seen duct tape used in an X fashion. I have used duct tape many times in my life. If the duct tape is in the X fashion, then how does it attach to the hair mat at the bottom of the skull? I am curious about the fine details of the physical evidence and this is important to me. It also appears to me that the duct tape was just torn and not cut. Many have said that you can not tear duct tape. I have never cut it, I just tear it. Its easy. So were all four ends adhered to the hair mat. This should be brought up for discussion because this new picture is new to me. I wonder if that is an fbi, ocso, medical examiners photo. IMO
responding to the bolded
I am also interested in the fine details of the physical evidence. However, it is very frustrating because I often provide them for you along with a link and they are often overlooked only to be brought up again on another thread.

I had provided the description of the duct tape on the skull and hair mat for you before. It was not adhered to the hair mat at the base of the skull.
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Old 04-19-2010, 03:51 PM
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I have not seen duct tape used in an X fashion. I have used duct tape many times in my life. If the duct tape is in the X fashion, then how does it attach to the hair mat at the bottom of the skull? I am curious about the fine details of the physical evidence and this is important to me. It also appears to me that the duct tape was just torn and not cut. Many have said that you can not tear duct tape. I have never cut it, I just tear it. Its easy. So were all four ends adhered to the hair mat. This should be brought up for discussion because this new picture is new to me. I wonder if that is an fbi, ocso, medical examiners photo. IMO
You will find all the fine details in the Post Mortem report.
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  #120  
Old 04-19-2010, 03:53 PM
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Read Dr Garavaglia's post mortem report. She's the expert, she was there.
If still not satisified read Dr Utz and Dr Schultz' report. They are also experts.
I have read all of the aformentioned documents very carefully more then once. What I am saying, is that I find them to be contradictory in regards to the subject area which is pointed out in the post you quoted.
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Old 04-19-2010, 03:56 PM
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I have read all of the aformentioned documents very carefully more then once. What I am saying, is that I find them to be contradictory in regards to the subject area which is pointed out in the post you quoted.
Then you will see from the reports that it was still attached to skull hair and it is not a 'notion' that it was still in position and it held the mandible in place, but a documented fact.
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  #122  
Old 04-19-2010, 04:10 PM
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Then you will see from the reports that it was still attached to skull hair and it is not a 'notion' that it was still in position and it held the mandible in place, but a documented fact.
It is also documented as fact in said report that there was no sticky residue on the tape. These two facts contradict one another when reading the reports. Also, in the report, I did not take it as fact that the tape was holding the mandible in place, more so that this was an inferred conclusion. I also recognize that the experts will elaborate on this at trial. For now, the reports are all we have and I personally find that certain statements made within seem to contradict one another.
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  #123  
Old 04-19-2010, 04:26 PM
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It is also documented as fact in said report that there was no sticky residue on the tape. These two facts contradict one another when reading the reports. Also, in the report, I did not take it as fact that the tape was holding the mandible in place, more so that this was an inferred conclusion. I also recognize that the experts will elaborate on this at trial. For now, the reports are all we have and I personally find that certain statements made within seem to contradict one another.
Can you find where the report says "no sticky residue"? I thought it said "no sticker residue".
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"It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94
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  #124  
Old 04-19-2010, 04:31 PM
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responding to the bolded
I am also interested in the fine details of the physical evidence. However, it is very frustrating because I often provide them for you along with a link and they are often overlooked only to be brought up again on another thread.

I had provided the description of the duct tape on the skull and hair mat for you before. It was not adhered to the hair mat at the base of the skull.
Ok, attached in some fashion to the hair mat? and in what fashion would that be?
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  #125  
Old 04-19-2010, 04:37 PM
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Read Dr Garavaglia's post mortem report. She's the expert, she was there.
If still not satisified read Dr Utz and Dr Schultz' report. They are also experts.
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