Four People Murdered in VA College Town #3

hoppyfrog · #1 10-26-2009, 08:25 PM

Please continue here.

dangrsmind · #2 10-26-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapu

As a mother of boys (and I would call Sam one despite his 20 years), I can imagine him doing almost anything about his bloody clothes other than using a washing machine. I'm sticking with he's wearing them (under the jacket) and smells to high-heaven because of that.

As for the 3 bodies being upstairs... weird again. Could the girls have slept there, been killed in bed, moved to the floor, and then Debra Kelley either being brought up there dead, or she came to the room and he killed her then. In what they said about the females being killed in bed, was there any room left for maybe Debra not being killed there?

There's no word on where they were actually killed. We've heard they were asleep at the time and that the bodies were found on the floor.

gxm · #3 10-26-2009, 08:29 PM

This is from a story dated October 23, last Friday:

"Sources tell CBS-6 that capital murder charges are expected to be filed in two weeks. A capital murder conviction can potentially lead to a death sentence."

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-farmvi...,1981283.story

I'm guessing that they are waiting for forensic evidence to come back. It sounds like they are playing this one extremely safe.

gxm · #4 10-26-2009, 08:30 PM

deleted double post.

dangrsmind · #5 10-26-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapu

The longer it goes with no charges against Sam for killing the women, the weirder that seems to me. Could there really be some other scenario being investigated??

There was a statement that capital murder charges would be announced in about two weeks and this was reported in a story last week. Wait another week or two and see what happens.

Edited to add: gxm slipped me

dangrsmind · #6 10-26-2009, 08:35 PM

Here's the entrance to Poorhouse road from the 460 that Heroine was talking about. He's already on the road to the airport before he gets here. He has to turn off onto what appears to me to be a fairly small side road that clearly isn't the main route 460. Also, if he did make this turn by mistake, he passes several other places where he could have turned around well before the location were he eventually did try to do so. IMO this theory is pretty improbable.

tapu · #7 10-26-2009, 08:37 PM

"...asleep, or in an otherwise defenseless position..."

So it's possible the girls slept up there, and that Debra was killed when she came up rather than necessarily that she was asleep too.

I'm just thinking this because both of these possibilities seem unlikely: 1) that they were all sleeping up there and he just moved them to the floor, and 2) that he moved all 3 bodies upstairs.

gxm · #8 10-26-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapu

"...asleep, or in an otherwise defenseless position..."

So it's possible the girls slept up there, and that Debra was killed when she came up rather than necessarily that she was asleep too.

I'm just thinking this because both of these possibilities seem unlikely: 1) that they were all sleeping up there and he just moved them to the floor, and 2) that he moved all 3 bodies upstairs.

All we know is that there were no defensive wounds on the women. Your scenario would work if Sam attacked Debra from behind. One hit with the maul and a person would be incapacitated.

I think it's also possible that he moved Debra after he killed her so that all the bodies were in the most remote area of the house. From photos she does not look like a large woman, so I'm guessing she wouldn't be extremely difficult to move.

tapu · #9 10-26-2009, 09:33 PM

Hey, did we ever link the "horrorcore.blogspot" on here, where people are going on about horrorcore as domestic terrorism?

I could try to find it again, if not. It's got some self-proclaimed horrorcories posting on there in the comments about Sam, skr, sick, etc.

It was linked to that recent article, above, about the murder weapon, body placement.

Some of these guys are making the claim that it was set up, too. To promote skr, et al.

deita · #10 10-26-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapu

Hey, did we ever link the "horrorcore.blogspot" on here, where people are going on about horrorcore as domestic terrorism?

I could try to find it again, if not. It's got some self-proclaimed horrorcories posting on there in the comments about Sam, skr, sick, etc.

It was linked to that recent article, above, about the murder weapon, body placement.

Some of these guys are making the claim that it was set up, too. To promote skr, et al.

this site? horror-core.blogspot.com

maunsapt · #11 10-26-2009, 10:13 PM

http://boardreader.com/t/Wicked_Unde...3f8e.html?o=40

or this site?

AndresEscobar · #12 10-27-2009, 12:32 AM

I think I would be able to reconcile Sam's actions a lot better if drugs were involved.

maunsapt · #13 10-27-2009, 12:45 AM

yes, AndresEscobar, I have been wondering this myself. Also, would the 3 female victims been drugged too? Makes one wonder if any of them heard of anything before they were killed.

claudicici · #14 10-27-2009, 02:37 AM

I was wondering about sam's drug habit's as well...he didn't seem to have as much of a problem as his sister.I keep wondering about way back how it all started.According to syko mom she was super protective and took a job at the school to be close to him but sarah paints a totally different picture.syko mom smoking bowl after bowl in front of a muted TV,she didn't seem to give a damn about those kids,just didn't want to be bothered...gave them weed,took their food for weed,basically left sam to rot in his room,didn't even care if he showered...I could imagine him staying in there to avoid confrontation,his sister didn't seem tobe too kind to him either...I'm not feeling sorry for him,I'm just trying to understand....maybe the whole involvment with wicked intend and skr was positive at first...it gave him something to live for...i bet he had huge expectations about meeting emma...i can also see him doing the whole rap thing to impress her,to impress his dad...but I think we all agree he sucked bad at it...
anyways I think when he thought emma was a cheater just like his mom he just freaked,i don't think he 's a psychopath,just majorly disturbed...I also think he called to cops for a half hearted alibi but I really doubt he cared much whether or not he would get caught at that point.I do believe the murders satisfied him which would explain his calm and almost content demeanor when he was taken in by le.I keep thinking of what the original syko sam,david berkowitz said in an interview"the tension,the desire to kill a woman had built up in me to such explosive proportions that when I finally pulled the trigger ,all the pressures,all the tensions,hatred,had just vanished,disappeared.I was literally singing on my way home"

Nikolai · #15 10-27-2009, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gxm

This is from a story dated October 23, last Friday:

"Sources tell CBS-6 that capital murder charges are expected to be filed in two weeks. A capital murder conviction can potentially lead to a death sentence."

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-farmvi...,1981283.story

I'm guessing that they are waiting for forensic evidence to come back. It sounds like they are playing this one extremely safe.

Yea they probably want to know exactly everything they have before filing the capital charges. The defense will likely have the goal of just trying to save McCroskey from lethal injection, it will be interesting to see what spin they go with to try and convince a jury to spare him death.

claudicici · #16 10-27-2009, 03:39 AM

I doubt he cares to be spared

dangrsmind · #17 10-27-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gxm

All we know is that there were no defensive wounds on the women. Your scenario would work if Sam attacked Debra from behind. One hit with the maul and a person would be incapacitated.

I think it's also possible that he moved Debra after he killed her so that all the bodies were in the most remote area of the house. From photos she does not look like a large woman, so I'm guessing she wouldn't be extremely difficult to move.

There could be other evidence besides the lack of defensive wounds, i.e. blood stains and spatter in or near the beds, the location of the wounds (indicating they were hit from behind or while prone), etc.

dangrsmind · #18 10-27-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claudicici

I doubt he cares to be spared

That's a curious statement. Why?

dangrsmind · #19 10-27-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndresEscobar

I think I would be able to reconcile Sam's actions a lot better if drugs were involved.

Meth use seems possible. I know of another case where an apparently normal guy became violent after a short period of frequent meth use. He threatened to kill his roommate by putting his head in the oven, then assaulted some other folks. He had to leave the state to avoid the consequences. Also, FWIW, he was very into conspiracy theory stuff like SickTanick and the meth plus conspiracy thinking seemed to go together.

dangrsmind · #20 10-27-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claudicici

I was wondering about sam's drug habit's as well...he didn't seem to have as much of a problem as his sister.I keep wondering about way back how it all started.According to syko mom she was super protective and took a job at the school to be close to him but sarah paints a totally different picture.syko mom smoking bowl after bowl in front of a muted TV,she didn't seem to give a damn about those kids,just didn't want to be bothered...gave them weed,took their food for weed,basically left sam to rot in his room,didn't even care if he showered...I could imagine him staying in there to avoid confrontation,his sister didn't seem tobe too kind to him either...I'm not feeling sorry for him,I'm just trying to understand....maybe the whole involvment with wicked intend and skr was positive at first...it gave him something to live for...i bet he had huge expectations about meeting emma...i can also see him doing the whole rap thing to impress her,to impress his dad...but I think we all agree he sucked bad at it...
anyways I think when he thought emma was a cheater just like his mom he just freaked,i don't think he 's a psychopath,just majorly disturbed...I also think he called to cops for a half hearted alibi but I really doubt he cared much whether or not he would get caught at that point.I do believe the murders satisfied him which would explain his calm and almost content demeanor when he was taken in by le.I keep thinking of what the original syko sam,david berkowitz said in an interview"the tension,the desire to kill a woman had built up in me to such explosive proportions that when I finally pulled the trigger ,all the pressures,all the tensions,hatred,had just vanished,disappeared.I was literally singing on my way home"

Blame the mother eh?

Certainly possible, but idk. I have a couple of problems with this story.

How does calling the police give him an alibi? It places him at the scene close to the time of the murders.

If he doesn't care about being caught, why is he trying to construct an alibi? It seems hard to believe that he both doesn't care about getting caught AND that he is trying to construct an alibi however lame.

What was he doing in the house for all those hours? We know he moved the bodies, but it seems like he didn't spend any time cleaning up, hence the description of the scene as horrific and brutal.

What was he doing on Poorhouse Road? Most likely dumping evidence, but we don't know yet. If he wants to get caught, why dump the evidence?

dangrsmind · #21 10-27-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maunsapt

http://boardreader.com/t/Wicked_Unde...3f8e.html?o=40

or this site?

Boardreader is a great resource. I think I hadn't read some of the postings near the end of this thread, so thanks for the link.

dangrsmind · #22 10-27-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deita

this site? horror-core.blogspot.com

The comments are the most interesting bit there. This is ground zero for the horrorcore witch hunt.

tapu · #23 10-27-2009, 11:01 AM

Yes, it was the comments on the horrorcore blog that caught my interest, too. Thanks for the other link, mauns, as well.

AndresEscobar · #24 10-27-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangrsmind

Meth use seems possible. I know of another case where an apparently normal guy became violent after a short period of frequent meth use. He threatened to kill his roommate by putting his head in the oven, then assaulted some other folks. He had to leave the state to avoid the consequences. Also, FWIW, he was very into conspiracy theory stuff like SickTanick and the meth plus conspiracy thinking seemed to go together.

Yeah, meth was the drug of which I was thinking. I went to undergrad in a farmtown in a rural area of the midwest. Every day, you'd hear all sorts of stuff about crimes involving meth use.

dangrsmind · #25 10-27-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndresEscobar

Yeah, meth was the drug of which I was thinking. I went to undergrad in a farmtown in a rural area of the midwest. Every day, you'd hear all sorts of stuff about crimes involving meth use.

No sign of the appearance changes that often go with frequent meth use however.

One of my side projects at a recent gig was to measure the facial similarity of meth users after short periods. I believe we were the first people to do this type of study FWIW. Meth use is connected to identity theft in many cases and we were interested in whether we would be able to identify people during the rapid changes in appearance that accompany meth use.

See http://www.facesofmeth.us/

WARNING some may find these images shocking/disturbing...