Poll: Why did Garrido bring Jaycee to the PO office?

[LinasK]

Why do you think Garrido brought Jaycee with him and Nancy and the girls to the PO's office? Feel free to add your own ideas. It's about time we had this poll. Meant to add write-in vote, not sure how to change.

[jjenny]

I would guess he got tired nobody wanted to hear his "heart warming" story of how good he was. So he brought JC and the girls with him to tell it.
Notice JC was saying Garrido was a good man and he was good to her kids. He's told the reporter something about all of us being amazed at this "heart warming" story, so it looks to me he fully expected JC to be telling it.

[kbl8201]

Originally Posted by jjenny

I would guess he got tired nobody wanted to hear his "heart warming" story of how good he was. So he brought JC and the girls with him to tell it.
Notice JC was saying Garrido was a good man and he was good to her kids. He's told the reporter something about all of us being amazed at this "heart warming" story, so it looks to me he fully expected JC to be telling it.

luckily that plan fell apart
im voting for that too

[Natal]

I think he was tired of hiding, and saw this as a chance to make the situation legit. If he had got them to buy his story, he wouldn't have to keep them concealed.

[SunnieRN]

I think pg thought he was above the law. He had been in a lot of near misses and had some close calls, but he always came out of the situations with nothing more than a reprimand.

I think he felt he would go into the parole office and share how he was "spreading the love" to this poor abused Mother who was in hiding from her abusive husband..I think he thought it would be his "ace in the hole" to finally absolve him from any further parole requirements.

The fact that he was trusted with Jaycees children and she was stating he was a "changed man" is a whole heck of a lot more than he had going for him in prison. Look where that got him.

I just thank God he was one crayon away from a box and couldn't give straight answers or keep his story straight!!

[kbl8201]

Originally Posted by SunnieRN

I think pg thought he was above the law. He had been in a lot of near misses and had some close calls, but he always came out of the situations with nothing more than a reprimand.

I think he felt he would go into the parole office and share how he was "spreading the love" to this poor abused Mother who was in hiding from her abusive husband..I think he thought it would be his "ace in the hole" to finally absolve him from any further parole requirements.

The fact that he was trusted with Jaycees children and she was stating he was a "changed man" is a whole heck of a lot more than he had going for him in prison. Look where that got him.

I just thank God he was one crayon away from a box and couldn't give straight answers or keep his story straight!!

thank god jaycee isnt a convincing liar either

[pedropete]

Originally Posted by jjenny

I would guess he got tired nobody wanted to hear his "heart warming" story of how good he was. So he brought JC and the girls with him to tell it.
Notice JC was saying Garrido was a good man and he was good to her kids. He's told the reporter something about all of us being amazed at this "heart warming" story, so it looks to me he fully expected JC to be telling it.

Yes, and when he wrote his letter from prison he said Jaycee's right to free speech was violated. I'm sure he thought she was being silenced. He expected her to be in the media preaching the "heart warming story" about this "good man" who'd turned his life around. I think he was probably shocked to find she wasn't and doesn't want to. The wool fell from Jaycee's eyes pretty quickly.

[kbl8201]

Originally Posted by pedropete

Yes, and when he wrote his letter from prison he said Jaycee's right to free speech was violated. I'm sure he thought she was being silenced. He expected her to be in the media preaching the "heart warming story" about this "good man" who'd turned his life around. I think he was probably shocked to find she wasn't and doesn't want to. The wool fell from Jaycee's eyes pretty quickly.

sure seems like once they told her he wasnt a threat to her anymore she had the weight lifted off her shoulders and could finally tell the truth after holding it in for so long

[songline]

Originally Posted by pedropete

Yes, and when he wrote his letter from prison he said Jaycee's right to free speech was violated. I'm sure he thought she was being silenced. He expected her to be in the media preaching the "heart warming story" about this "good man" who'd turned his life around. I think he was probably shocked to find she wasn't and doesn't want to. The wool fell from Jaycee's eyes pretty quickly.

She did stand up for him at the begining.

[time]

I still don't believe Garrdio wanted to get caught. I think there is some reason for him taking everyone with him to the Parole office and that he coached everyone beforehand, since I don't think Jaycee came up with the 'abused wife from MN' and 'wanting a lawyer' on the spur of the moment. Maybe the adults had talked about this before the Berkeley incident though. I believe that Garrido could have thought he was blending back into society on the one hand and becoming a respectable citizen (as far as others knew). Yes, delusional, but he thought no one knew much other than the 1976 incident.

Garrido was amazingly able to do what he wanted since 1988 or at least since 1993 (and, who knows how much he has done that he was never caught at, even pre 1976). A generation had now passed though since he kidnapped Jaycee and he thought no one would really question an adult woman claiming to be the mother of two children... Jaycee even laughed and said how others had commented on how young she looked - sounds like she had given this response before. I think Garrido thought she was completely programmed and, in fact, it was Garrido who gave himself up, not Jaycee or Nancy.

Natal mentioned in another thread that he might have panicked when they were separated at the parole office. Was it a mixture of this panic and his delusional thinking that if Jaycee stood up for him (and all the others), people would believe he had changed his life? I believe it was primarily Garrido's default mechanism - saving his behind by confessing because he knew he was trapped (especially if one of the women broke down and he was still lying - no, better to confess and he maintains control of the situation by doing so). Remember the religion thing seemed to work for him before when he was in prison and now he had evidence to put forward (in his mind) that he was being a spiritual leader, a member of the community, and, maybe, he thought, a good father. If nothing else, Jaycee would stand up and say he hadn't done anything to her for years and he was a good parent (which she did), that he had no arrests (which he didn't), etc. Now we know Garrido had all kinds of infractions, but was not even hampered by a GPS device. He was welcomed to present at a council meeting. Others even signed statements about his black box. He had a business.

Yeah, he could have short circuited a bit being confronted, but I still see long range planning on his part and no strong evidence he was trying to turn himself in, only that in the back of his mind if he got caught, everyone would HAVE to believed his story.

The question still remains though (in my theory) - why did he take them all with him. I think he simply could have thought it was support for himself and they would let him go quickly. He could have thought there would remain questions about who was with him in Berkeley if he didn't do that and if Nancy was there supporting the whole story, who would think it was a lie? No one really knew Nancy was his co-conspirator in anything. Maybe he thought he'd lose control if he went by himself and anyone had a chance to question others, esp if he was detained, or do a thorough search on the house while he wasn't there. It also makes me wonder, looking back, if Cheyvonne and others did think Jaycee was fine since this is what they saw - they didn't the rest of it?

[kbl8201]

Originally Posted by time

I still don't believe Garrdio wanted to get caught. I think there is some reason for him taking everyone with him to the Parole office and that he coached everyone beforehand, since I don't think Jaycee came up with the 'abused wife from MN' and 'wanting a lawyer' on the spur of the moment. Maybe the adults had talked about this before the Berkeley incident though. I believe that Garrido could have thought he was blending back into society on the one hand and becoming a respectable citizen (as far as others knew). Yes, delusional, but he thought no one knew much other than the 1976 incident.

Garrido was amazingly able to do what he wanted since 1988 or at least since 1993 (and, who knows how much he has done that he was never caught at, even pre 1976). A generation had now passed though since he kidnapped Jaycee and he thought no one would really question an adult woman claiming to be the mother of two children... Jaycee even laughed and said how others had commented on how young she looked - sounds like she had given this response before. I think Garrido thought she was completely programmed and, in fact, it was Garrido who gave himself up, not Jaycee or Nancy.

Natal mentioned in another thread that he might have panicked when they were separated at the parole office. Was it a mixture of this panic and his delusional thinking that if Jaycee stood up for him (and all the others), people would believe he had changed his life? I believe it was primarily Garrido's default mechanism - saving his behind by confessing because he knew he was trapped (especially if one of the women broke down and he was still lying - no, better to confess and he maintains control of the situation by doing so). Remember the religion thing seemed to work for him before when he was in prison and now he had evidence to put forward (in his mind) that he was being a spiritual leader, a member of the community, and, maybe, he thought, a good father. If nothing else, Jaycee would stand up and say he hadn't done anything to her for years and he was a good parent (which she did), that he had no arrests (which he didn't), etc. Now we know Garrido had all kinds of infractions, but was not even hampered by a GPS device. He was welcomed to present at a council meeting. Others even signed statements about his black box. He had a business.

Yeah, he could have short circuited a bit being confronted, but I still see long range planning on his part and no strong evidence he was trying to turn himself in, only that in the back of his mind if he got caught, everyone would HAVE to believed his story.

The question still remains though (in my theory) - why did he take them all with him. I think he simply could have thought it was support for himself and they would let him go quickly. He could have thought there would remain questions about who was with him in Berkeley if he didn't do that and if Nancy was there supporting the whole story, who would think it was a lie? No one really knew Nancy was his co-conspirator in anything. Maybe he thought he'd lose control if he went by himself and anyone had a chance to question others, esp if he was detained, or do a thorough search on the house while he wasn't there. It also makes me wonder, looking back, if Cheyvonne and others did think Jaycee was fine since this is what they saw - they didn't the rest of it?

while she did say he didnt touch her in years, im trying hard to think how he could possibly think she wasnt going to tell the police everything he did to here before that.

once she learned that he had confessed to kidnapping her, the veil of protecing him came crashing down. could he possibly think she was going to deny that he raped her for years or that the girls were the product of that? does he think that now and thats why he sent that bizarre letter thru the reporter? he seriously underestimated jaycee and is still doing so.

[Tizzle]

What really stands out to me is the differing stories given during questioning.

Garrido has spent his life, certainly the last 18 years, covering his tracks, making up answers and explanations and fooling people. I find it very hard to believe that he would march the entire brood into the PO's office without having a specific script in place. I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have been thorough in his coaching of the women and what they should say. I find it hard to believe that after 18 years of controlling her every move, PG just let JC loose at the PO office to say whatever she wanted.

I think PG knew the script and didn't use it. When the PO came to question PG, the PO asked about the relationship of the 3 girls, PG thought about it for a moment and then gave an explanation that was entirely different from JC's. To me, it seems like he wanted to get caught but didn't want the women to know what he was up to. It's like his pause was the big "OK, here goes nothin" moment. They had one script, he decided on another. I find it hard to believe that he easily managed to remain undetected for over 18 years but failed to get everyone on the same page about what their story would be. His life has been nothing but cover up after cover up, he's had so much practice, I just don't think he would have overlooked this one detail.

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but I really think he wanted to get caught. I'm just not clear on whether it was a conscious decision on his part or an action of his sub-conscience. Either way, I don't think it was a fumble by PG, I think it was part of his crazy "plan".

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by Tizzle

What really stands out to me is the differing stories given during questioning.

Garrido has spent his life, certainly the last 18 years, covering his tracks, making up answers and explanations and fooling people. I find it very hard to believe that he would march the entire brood into the PO's office without having a specific script in place. I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have been thorough in his coaching of the women and what they should say. I find it hard to believe that after 18 years of controlling her every move, PG just let JC loose at the PO office to say whatever she wanted.

I think PG knew the script and didn't use it. When the PO came to question PG, the PO asked about the relationship of the 3 girls, PG thought about it for a moment and then gave an explanation that was entirely different from JC's. To me, it seems like he wanted to get caught but didn't want the women to know what he was up to. It's like his pause was the big "OK, here goes nothin" moment. They had one script, he decided on another. I find it hard to believe that he easily managed to remain undetected for over 18 years but failed to get everyone on the same page about what their story would be. His life has been nothing but cover up after cover up, he's had so much practice, I just don't think he wouldn't have overlooked this one detail.

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but I really think he wanted to get caught. I'm just not clear on whether it was a conscious decision on his part or an action of his sub-conscience. Either way, I don't think it was a fumble by PG, I think it was part of his crazy "plan".

Maybe he did want to get caught so she could tell the heart warming story.
Nobody was paying attentions to his "manifestos" before. Maybe he expected that after she told that "heart warming" story, and said she wanted to remain with him, we all say "how wonderful" and let them go on their merry way? He is a "changed" man, after all.

[kbl8201]

Originally Posted by jjenny

Maybe he did want to get caught so she could tell the heart warming story.
Nobody was paying attentions to his "manifestos" before. Maybe he expected that after she told that "heart warming" story, and said she wanted to remain with him, we all say "how wonderful" and let them go on their merry way? He is a "changed" man, after all.

[cindysue]

I havent read what really happened at the PO office, but my quess is that he took everyone with him, he really had to cause of the berkley officers raised the red flag and he had to explain about the kids one way or the other. He had a script but when JC and the girls wouldnt answer questions they seperated them and got JC to admit the truth, after all she wasnt a liar like him. Then when confronted he admitted it ( probably not real good thinking on his feet)
and tryed to reason his way out of it. He had a plan but he didnt expect to have the complication of JC being questioned alone.

[kbl8201]

Originally Posted by cindysue

I havent read what really happened at the PO office, but my quess is that he took everyone with him, he really had to cause of the berkley officers raised the red flag and he had to explain about the kids one way or the other. He had a script but when JC and the girls wouldnt answer questions they seperated them and got JC to admit the truth, after all she wasnt a liar like him. Then when confronted he admitted it ( probably not real good thinking on his feet)
and tryed to reason his way out of it. He had a plan but he didnt expect to have the complication of JC being questioned alone.

the report says he cracked before jaycee did actually. jaycee changed her story to being an abused wife on the run.

[SunnieRN]

Originally Posted by songline

She did stand up for him at the begining.

Originally Posted by Tizzle

What really stands out to me is the differing stories given during questioning.

Garrido has spent his life, certainly the last 18 years, covering his tracks, making up answers and explanations and fooling people. I find it very hard to believe that he would march the entire brood into the PO's office without having a specific script in place. I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have been thorough in his coaching of the women and what they should say. I find it hard to believe that after 18 years of controlling her every move, PG just let JC loose at the PO office to say whatever she wanted.

I think PG knew the script and didn't use it. When the PO came to question PG, the PO asked about the relationship of the 3 girls, PG thought about it for a moment and then gave an explanation that was entirely different from JC's. To me, it seems like he wanted to get caught but didn't want the women to know what he was up to. It's like his pause was the big "OK, here goes nothin" moment. They had one script, he decided on another. I find it hard to believe that he easily managed to remain undetected for over 18 years but failed to get everyone on the same page about what their story would be. His life has been nothing but cover up after cover up, he's had so much practice, I just don't think he wouldn't have overlooked this one detail.

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but I really think he wanted to get caught. I'm just not clear on whether it was a conscious decision on his part or an action of his sub-conscience. Either way, I don't think it was a fumble by PG, I think it was part of his crazy "plan".

I really can't believe he wanted to be caught. He had a life of relative freedom, traveling where he wanted, doing what he wanted, without recourse.

People really didn't strongly question pg through out his time following release from his Nevada prison stay. He would tell everyone something different, just what popped into his head. Heck he even told his Aunt that the girls were "neighbors kids that he was watching.

When he brought everyone to the PO in concord, I really think his thoughts were that he would just give a little spiel and they would all walk out of there and go home.

What kept Jaycee from telling the truth right away? Ummm lets see, could it have been fear of reprisal from pg and ng? Could it have been terror of past punishments from saying something, or saying nothing and pg still being unhappy? Or could it even been fear of the unknown? She felt guilt for letting her Mom worry all those years, unspeakable things had been done to her, she now had children with a monster (not at will of course). How was she supposed to have any idea at all how society or her family would react to her. Also with pg's sickp philosophy he probably had her believing she was guilty of something. Didn't give her much of a feeling of trusting in the truth before she felt she was safe, in my honest opinion.

[Tizzle]

Originally Posted by cindysue

I havent read what really happened at the PO office, but my quess is that he took everyone with him, he really had to cause of the berkley officers raised the red flag and he had to explain about the kids one way or the other.

According to the report, the PO was surprised when PG arrived with everyone in tow and had even released him from custody the day before, after Garrido stated that the girls he was with at UCB were his brother's children. Which leads me to believe that PG showing up in Concord alone would not have raised any concerns for the PO. PG may have expected the PO to question him further about the girls he was with, thus prompting him to bring JC, her girls and the story JC gave them.

Originally Posted by cindysue

He had a script but when JC and the girls wouldnt answer questions they seperated them and got JC to admit the truth, after all she wasnt a liar like him. Then when confronted he admitted it ( probably not real good thinking on his feet) and tryed to reason his way out of it. He had a plan but he didnt expect to have the complication of JC being questioned alone.

They seperated PG from all the females immediately and before questioning anyone, according to I.G. Shaw's report. JC stood strongly by her story to the end, until PG confessed first.

It's still very hard for me to believe that PG wouldn't have made sure everyone had the script down before arriving in Concord. Even if he thought they would all be questioned together and he would be able to steer the conversation, I would think he would still provide a script for everyone to follow or at least some coaching about what they should say if asked "this" or what should be said if asked "that" before arriving. Its not like he wouldn't know that they would want to speak to everyone.

Am I really supposed to believe that PG, the monster that was able to fly below the radar for so many years, waltzed in there with all in tow thinking he would give the PO a quick q&a session and waltz back out without the others being questioned? Because I don't, not for a second. After being in the system for so many years, he would know that his PO would question any and everyone that arrived at that office with him, especially young women that were complete strangers to the PO. The story that JC gave the PO at first, I believe, is a story that PG manufactured for her to give. For all of them to give.

Maybe he didn't go in there hoping to get caught, it's possible he didn't. I'm just not sure, what with his manifesto being turned over to the fbi only days before, arriving in Concord with "companions" telling a different story than his and his immediate contact with the media spewing nonsense about some so-called "heart-warming" story. Also, the fact that he was the one who spilled the beans and not the women, speaks volumes. What made the women stick to their story so steadfastly while he caved? To me, it's because PG told them to and not because they came up with their story, themselves. It's rather obvious, to me, that PG knew precisely what the script was and for some reason ventured away from it.

[anthroamy]

Originally Posted by SunnieRN

I really can't believe he wanted to be caught. He had a life of relative freedom, traveling where he wanted, doing what he wanted, without recourse.

People really didn't strongly question pg through out his time following release from his Nevada prison stay. He would tell everyone something different, just what popped into his head. Heck he even told his Aunt that the girls were "neighbors kids that he was watching.

When he brought everyone to the PO in concord, I really think his thoughts were that he would just give a little spiel and they would all walk out of there and go home.

What kept Jaycee from telling the truth right away? Ummm lets see, could it have been fear of reprisal from pg and ng? Could it have been terror of past punishments from saying something, or saying nothing and pg still being unhappy? Or could it even been fear of the unknown? She felt guilt for letting her Mom worry all those years, unspeakable things had been done to her, she now had children with a monster (not at will of course). How was she supposed to have any idea at all how society or her family would react to her. Also with pg's sickp philosophy he probably had her believing she was guilty of something. Didn't give her much of a feeling of trusting in the truth before she felt she was safe, in my honest opinion.

This is such a great post. Thank you, Sunnie. Reading about Jaycee at the parole office just broke my heart! When she says she "had learned a long time ago not to carry or give any personal information to anyone" that just screams to me that she had been punished harshly, probably numerous times, by the Garridos for any little infraction. Maybe the first time was talking to the boy through the fence?

And the charges say threats to her and another, violence, etc. Jaycee was obviously aware that PG was a bold criminal and capable of violence. She must have been scared to death.

[time]

When you are being questioned like that, it's not the same as repeating a script in rehearsal or just memorizing it. They were confronted with having to provide proof which threw everything off. Jaycee had to have been coached on the 'calling a lawyer' thing - last resort, worse case scenario, say nothing and ask for a lawyer.

Garrido was cunning enough to realize his time could be up. He must have thought one of the women would spill the beans for sure and he cut his losses by outing himself, he thought. Even if not, was it really going to work if Jaycee got a lawyer? It was probably the first time he was really out of control since 1983 and then he had good reason then to think Nancy would not spill the beans since she was an accomplice. I bet there was more going on in his questioning than we are privy to.

[anthroamy]

Originally Posted by Tizzle

Also, the fact that he was the one who spilled the beans and not the women, speaks volumes. What made the women stick to their story so steadfastly while he caved? To me, it's because PG told them to and not because they came up with their story, themselves. It's rather obvious, to me, that PG knew precisely what the script was and for some reason ventured away from it.

Snipped by me. Tizzle this is s great post and an interesting theory. My question is, why did PG immediately deviate from the script? He didn't change midway through, he went directly in and told them a vastly different story than Jaycee.

[songline]

I read somewhere that he gave the FBI some of his scripts "Manifesto".
I read somewhere that Molino knew his secret...

That is not the sign of a man who does not want to get caught....It is the sign of a man who is very arrogant....
It is also the sign of someone who wants fame.
I do believe that taking the girls out with him spells out one of 2 plans.
1) If he gets away with taking the girls out publicly. He will be setting up some presidency that they do exist,
and that it is OK.
2) Another way to get closer to getting caught.

I definitly do NOT think that he wanted to stay clear of LE - These gestures do not say that at all.
1) given the FBI his manifesto.
2) told Molino his "Secret"
3) taken the girls out publicly.

Arrogance yes...He also knew he had a record. Stupid he was not...Insane, deviant he was.

[Tizzle]

Originally Posted by anthroamy

Snipped by me. Tizzle this is s great post and an interesting theory. My question is, why did PG immediately deviate from the script? He didn't change midway through, he went directly in and told them a vastly different story than Jaycee.

I know. That's exactly what makes me question his motives.

[kbl8201]

Originally Posted by SunnieRN

I really can't believe he wanted to be caught. He had a life of relative freedom, traveling where he wanted, doing what he wanted, without recourse.

People really didn't strongly question pg through out his time following release from his Nevada prison stay. He would tell everyone something different, just what popped into his head. Heck he even told his Aunt that the girls were "neighbors kids that he was watching.

When he brought everyone to the PO in concord, I really think his thoughts were that he would just give a little spiel and they would all walk out of there and go home.

What kept Jaycee from telling the truth right away? Ummm lets see, could it have been fear of reprisal from pg and ng? Could it have been terror of past punishments from saying something, or saying nothing and pg still being unhappy? Or could it even been fear of the unknown? She felt guilt for letting her Mom worry all those years, unspeakable things had been done to her, she now had children with a monster (not at will of course). How was she supposed to have any idea at all how society or her family would react to her. Also with pg's sickp philosophy he probably had her believing she was guilty of something. Didn't give her much of a feeling of trusting in the truth before she felt she was safe, in my honest opinion.

she was probbly also threatned by garrido that if she told the police everything they'd take her girls from her

[Tizzle]

Originally Posted by time

When you are being questioned like that, it's not the same as repeating a script in rehearsal or just memorizing it. They were confronted with having to provide proof which threw everything off. Jaycee had to have been coached on the 'calling a lawyer' thing - last resort, worse case scenario, say nothing and ask for a lawyer.

Garrido was cunning enough to realize his time could be up. He must have thought one of the women would spill the beans for sure and he cut his losses by outing himself, he thought. Even if not, was it really going to work if Jaycee got a lawyer? It was probably the first time he was really out of control since 1983 and then he had good reason then to think Nancy would not spill the beans since she was an accomplice. I bet there was more going on in his questioning than we are privy to.

BBM

If she was coached on this detail then she was coached on all of the details. I'm simply saying, it's extremely curious that PG didn't at least try to give the same story that the women were giving.

He didn't out himself right away, he just told a different version of the trio's origin as if it was a game to him. It almost seems as if it was done to create drama and confusion. As a control tactic. One last chance to control the situation before the end. And as controlling as PG obviously is, I just don't think he would take the women with him without preparing them in some way before arriving. Otherwise, JC & NG came up with their own story and left PG out of the loop, which is highly doubtful considering JC's proclamations of him being a "great person" and "changed man". They wouldn't have defended him and protested as much as the report says they did.