If your child were murdered…

[srvfan]

I don't have any kids of my own, But I do have two stepdaughters that I love very much. My reaction if someone hurt one of them I think would be pure rage. I wouldn't grieve until the killer was locked up or dead!

[Stef88]

Hmmmmmmmmm just watching John Ramsey on Anderson and host asks 'Do you still think about it all the time?' JR says 'Not all the time, no, you've gotta move on in your life'. Really? Most parents would be thinking of their child everyday and wanting justice! I want justice more then ever for JB and she's not even my daughter!

[SuperDave]

Originally Posted by Stef88

Hmmmmmmmmm just watching John Ramsey on Anderson and host asks 'Do you still think about it all the time?' JR says 'Not all the time, no, you've gotta move on in your life'. Really? Most parents would be thinking of their child everyday and wanting justice! I want justice more then ever for JB and she's not even my daughter!

It's sad that we care more than he does, isn't it?

[Stef88]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

It's sad that we care more than he does, isn't it?

Very! Also ridiculously strange, I don't understand how you could not think about it everyday! (Probably trying to block it out...) so weird...It also unsettles me how in alot of interviews of him i've seen JR looks like he is trying not to smile :S

[Noodles]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

It's sad that we care more than he does, isn't it?

It seems from the beginning he wanted to forget about it. Quite telling IMO.

[Mendara]

Originally Posted by madeleine

Oh yes.

I wanna hear from those who think and can show me(DOi quotes,interviews,whatever) that PR loved JB more than herself,her life style and JR.

Exactly.

[GingBreade]

I'm just reading along here but had to log in and say 'BULLSHEET'!!! aRE YOU KIDDING ME?

[GingBreade]

John and Patsy just let it go man....they forgive and forget. OMG.

It's just annoying to me that they got such a 'pass'.

[sandover]

Originally Posted by Noodles

It seems from the beginning he wanted to forget about it. Quite telling IMO.

From the "beginning," the Jan 1 interview on CNN:

***JR: Well we have been pretty isolated -- totally isolated -- for the last five days...***

This from a family that immediately called and received friends, their pastor, and others within minutes of reading the "ransom note."

***JR: ...we know in our hearts that JonBenet is safe and with God and that the grieving that we all have to do is for ourselves and for our loss...***

In under a week, they admit they are thinking about themselves, not their daughter.

***JR: ... for our grief to resolve itself we now have to find out why this happened.***

Not who did it (wonder why they're not curious about that). WHY it happened.

***JR: Well, we were fortunate from almost the moment that we found the note to be surrounded by friends, our minister, our family doctor, a personal friend of mine who is also an attorney...***

But wait! 60 seconds ago you said you were "totally isolated"!!!

I could go on and on and on -- and this was not a particularly long interview. Yes, from the beginning they wanted to forget. In particular they wanted to forget WHO did it by focusing on WHY and they wanted to forget WHO was killed by focusing on themselves.

[FairM]

With respect Cynic this is a nonsense post.. no one knows how they would react if their child were murdered,, even if we have gone through it, we all act differently , you cannot possibly compare 2 sets of parents who have tragically lost their children , you just cannot.
And I think it is deplorable to judge parents on what their behaviour "should" be in these circumstances, there is no "right" way to grieve the loss of your child.

[SuperDave]

Originally Posted by FairM

With respect Cynic this is a nonsense post.. no one knows how they would react if their child were murdered,, even if we have gone through it, we all act differently , you cannot possibly compare 2 sets of parents who have tragically lost their children , you just cannot.
And I think it is deplorable to judge parents on what their behaviour "should" be in these circumstances, there is no "right" way to grieve the loss of your child.

It's not JUST 2 sets, FairM. There are PLENTY of examples: the Van Dams, Marc Klaas, Erin Runnion, the Patz family, and on and on that are as different from the Rs as night is from day. Thus, a reasonable person could make the same conclusion that cynic has.

Besides, IDI seems to be a bit hypocritical on this subject. They'll slam RDI for comparing the Ramseys with what they'd do in a similar situation, but have NO problem doing the exact same thing in FAVOR of the Rs. Funny how that worked out, ain't it?

[Flatlander]

Originally Posted by FairM

With respect Cynic this is a nonsense post.. no one knows how they would react if their child were murdered,, even if we have gone through it, we all act differently , you cannot possibly compare 2 sets of parents who have tragically lost their children , you just cannot.
And I think it is deplorable to judge parents on what their behaviour "should" be in these circumstances, there is no "right" way to grieve the loss of your child.

Well all else aside, according to Wikipedia this is a true statement:

Death of a child can take the form of a loss in infancy such as miscarriage or stillbirth or neonatal death, SIDS, or the death of an older child. In most cases, parents find the grief almost unbearably devastating, and it tends to hold greater risk factors than any other loss. This loss also bears a lifelong process: one does not get 'over' the death but instead must assimilate and live with it.

Intervention and comforting support can make all the difference to the survival of a parent in this type of grief but the risk factors are great and may include family breakup or suicide. Feelings of guilt, whether legitimate or not, are pervasive, and the dependent nature of the relationship disposes parents to a variety of problems as they seek to cope with this great loss. Parents who suffer miscarriage or a regretful or coerced abortion may experience resentment towards others who experience successful pregnancies. Because of the intensity of grief emotions, irrational decisions are often made.

I would say the very last sentence only applies to the R's grief. Instead the R's chose to hide behind their money and continue to do so. MOO

[qtc]

Does anyone know of any other parents who acted as the R's did, whose child was murdered, and was definitely murdered by someone other than the parents?

I couldnt image not spending every waking moment trying to find the person responsible for taking my childs life. And doing everything possible to bring them to justice.

[UKGuy]

Originally Posted by qtc

Does anyone know of any other parents who acted as the R's did, whose child was murdered, and was definitely murdered by someone other than the parents?

I couldnt image not spending every waking moment trying to find the person responsible for taking my childs life. And doing everything possible to bring them to justice.

qtc,
Just consider the parents of Etan Patz. Since he disappeared, his parents have been reluctant to move or even change their phone number in case their son tried to reach them.

.

[Agatha_C]

Originally Posted by UKGuy

qtc,
Just consider the parents of Etan Patz. Since he disappeared, his parents have been reluctant to move or even change their phone number in case their son tried to reach them.

.

Because thats what non murdering parents do!!!!!!!

[DeeDee249]

Originally Posted by Agatha_C

Because thats what non murdering parents do!!!!!!!

You are so right. Yet, compare this to JB's parents. They tried to leave the STATE within moments of "finding" her body. They would have just left her, and never looked back. They left her poor, cold corpse under the CHRISTMAS TREE- where she waited for the coroner to come and pronounce her dead. They couldn't WAIT to get away from her. And according to them, they never even TALKED about her to their son. And in the words of her own father- the case is dead to him. Dead...like his daughter. Grieving parents do move on sometimes, but THESE parents moved on THAT DAY. BR too. He put her out of his mind as soon as she was out of his life.

[Unreals]

That's why this case is so compelling. The Ramseys' actions after JBR was found are so foreign to every parent that it's impossible not to suspect them for that alone. However, the coldness and the detachment they exhibited towards the dead JBR stands out in stark contrast to the way the living JBR was treated.

How did Patsy become so emotionally detached, instantly, from the daughter who'd evidently been the primary focus of her life? The one she doted on, spoiled and seemingly favored overtly over Burke- how was she willing to flee, without showing the least respect for her little body? Pets are accorded more respect than that. No matter how wacky she was, all evidence shows Patsy was a loving, very involved parent before that night.

It's obvious that someoneor a combination of someonesin that house caused JBR's death. There was no intruder. Patsy wrote the note, quite obviously. But what happened that night, to result in such a tragedy? A horrific head wound, combined with a garrote about the neck- there is no logical way to explain it. What monstrous parents would "stage" either a head wound or a strangulation or sexual abuse? None of it makes sense.

I feel that whatever happened, it didn't happen spontaneously. A huge clue here is the inexplicable lack of family photos that Christmas morning, and no videotaping of the kids opening presents. All parents would do that. Imho, something strange was brewing there well before Christmas.

[DeeDee249]

Originally Posted by Unreals

That's why this case is so compelling. The Ramseys' actions after JBR was found are so foreign to every parent that it's impossible not to suspect them for that alone. However, the coldness and the detachment they exhibited towards the dead JBR stands out in stark contrast to the way the living JBR was treated.

How did Patsy become so emotionally detached, instantly, from the daughter who'd evidently been the primary focus of her life? The one she doted on, spoiled and seemingly favored overtly over Burke- how was she willing to flee, without showing the least respect for her little body? Pets are accorded more respect than that. No matter how wacky she was, all evidence shows Patsy was a loving, very involved parent before that night.

It's obvious that someoneor a combination of someonesin that house caused JBR's death. There was no intruder. Patsy wrote the note, quite obviously. But what happened that night, to result in such a tragedy? A horrific head wound, combined with a garrote about the neck- there is no logical way to explain it. What monstrous parents would "stage" either a head wound or a strangulation or sexual abuse? None of it makes sense.

I feel that whatever happened, it didn't happen spontaneously. A huge clue here is the inexplicable lack of family photos that Christmas morning, and no videotaping of the kids opening presents. All parents would do that. Imho, something strange was brewing there well before Christmas.

We may never know exactly what happened in the house that awful night. You are right- Patsy did dote on JB, even if it took the form of pushing her ever harder to win those pageants. Is that really so different from the way Tiger Wood's dad pushed him? Or the Williams sisters were pushed? Probably not. Many parents live vicariously though the achievements of their kids.
But there was something more going on with JB. The sexualization of this beautiful little girl led to the sexual abuse. And that sexual abuse led to the events of that night. I simply can see no other way it could have happened. Even of the abuser was BR, even if he was the one who bashed her on the head...but it could have been anyone in the house that night. Even someone who was never proven to be there...like JAR and possibly a college friend.
I agree that the lack of photos and videos is suspicious. The excuses are just plain lame- dead batteries? No film? C'mon. Patsy was the kind of mother who planned Christmas morning for weeks.
You see, I feel the lack of Christmas morning videos and the paltry few photos are yet another indication that JAR (or another person) was in the house that morning. Add that theory to the almost immediate lawyering up of JAR's mother in Atlanta (to keep LE from pressing her to provide proof her son was with her that day) and I can virtually guarantee his presence in Boulder instead of Atlanta.

[sandover]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

We may never know exactly what happened in the house that awful night. You are right- Patsy did dote on JB, even if it took the form of pushing her ever harder to win those pageants. Is that really so different from the way Tiger Wood's dad pushed him? Or the Williams sisters were pushed? Probably not. Many parents live vicariously though the achievements of their kids.
But there was something more going on with JB. The sexualization of this beautiful little girl led to the sexual abuse. And that sexual abuse led to the events of that night. I simply can see no other way it could have happened. Even of the abuser was BR, even if he was the one who bashed her on the head...but it could have been anyone in the house that night. Even someone who was never proven to be there...like JAR and possibly a college friend.
I agree that the lack of photos and videos is suspicious. The excuses are just plain lame- dead batteries? No film? C'mon. Patsy was the kind of mother who planned Christmas morning for weeks.
You see, I feel the lack of Christmas morning videos and the paltry few photos are yet another indication that JAR (or another person) was in the house that morning. Add that theory to the almost immediate lawyering up of JAR's mother in Atlanta (to keep LE from pressing her to provide proof her son was with her that day) and I can virtually guarantee his presence in Boulder instead of Atlanta.

JAR has a solid alibi.

The lack of film that morning is strange but hardly evidence of premeditation. That awful ransom note is evidence of no planning.

PR never loved JB; she used her. In life as in death.

[UKGuy]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

We may never know exactly what happened in the house that awful night. You are right- Patsy did dote on JB, even if it took the form of pushing her ever harder to win those pageants. Is that really so different from the way Tiger Wood's dad pushed him? Or the Williams sisters were pushed? Probably not. Many parents live vicariously though the achievements of their kids.
But there was something more going on with JB. The sexualization of this beautiful little girl led to the sexual abuse. And that sexual abuse led to the events of that night. I simply can see no other way it could have happened. Even of the abuser was BR, even if he was the one who bashed her on the head...but it could have been anyone in the house that night. Even someone who was never proven to be there...like JAR and possibly a college friend.
I agree that the lack of photos and videos is suspicious. The excuses are just plain lame- dead batteries? No film? C'mon. Patsy was the kind of mother who planned Christmas morning for weeks.
You see, I feel the lack of Christmas morning videos and the paltry few photos are yet another indication that JAR (or another person) was in the house that morning. Add that theory to the almost immediate lawyering up of JAR's mother in Atlanta (to keep LE from pressing her to provide proof her son was with her that day) and I can virtually guarantee his presence in Boulder instead of Atlanta.

DeeDee249,
Patsy knew JonBenet had been molested the night she was killed. Why would she give JAR a pass?


.

[cynic]

Originally Posted by FairM

With respect Cynic this is a nonsense post.. no one knows how they would react if their child were murdered,, even if we have gone through it, we all act differently , you cannot possibly compare 2 sets of parents who have tragically lost their children , you just cannot.
And I think it is deplorable to judge parents on what their behaviour "should" be in these circumstances, there is no "right" way to grieve the loss of your child.

I do know of one person that agrees with you completely, Jose Baez. Speaking about Casey Anthony and her month of “grieving” after killing her daughter…
“I think what we do in our society is, we judge people pretty harshly. And we judge them as if we know how we would react if we were in their shoes, but the fact is, we’re not in their shoes. And we haven’t lived the life they’ve lived. So I think when people start judging people that way, I think it’s a bit unfair. People grieve in many different ways. And people respond to trauma in various ways.”
http://www.examiner.com/article/a-mother-lies-and-the-world-cries-casey-anthony-defies-the-7-stages-of-grief

We need to ask whether behavior fits better within a context of innocence or guilt.
The concept of circumstantial evidence is relatively well laid out in Steve Thomas’ statement that …
”Taken alone each piece of evidence might be argued, but together, enough pebbles become a block of evidentiary granite.”
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 242

A number of people who had the opportunity, first hand, to witness the behavior of the Ramsey’s were left with the impression that it was atypical.
Similarly the American public judged the behavior of the Ramseys and just as the poll here would suggest, they also by a substantial majority felt there was something wrong.
Without further evidence to back up that suspicion it amounts to nothing, but there is significant evidence and therefore the behavioral evidence simply dovetails in with the rest of the evidence.
My intention is not to argue the evidence which bolsters the suspicion raised by the Ramseys behavior within this post. That has been laid out and argued many times.
And make no mistake, the behavior of suspects is evidence and can be brought up at trial.
It also alerts investigators as to whom the potential suspects are, as in the case below:
Downs claimed she was carjacked on a rural road near Springfield, Oregon by a strange man who shot her and her three children. Investigators, however, became suspicious when they decided her manner was too calm for that of a person who had experienced such a traumatic event.
http://www.enotes.com/topic/Diane_Downs

Alex Hunter comments on the behavior of the Ramseys below and I find the bolded statement to be especially valid:
During a three hour interview with me in June, Alex Hunter, an affable man of 61, acknowledged that most of the post murder behavior of the Ramseys was unusual. "No question about it. They lawyered up early on," he said. "Normally it is true, such victims throw themselves at the police and district attorney, offering and begging for information. “
Vanity Fair,Who Killed JonBenet? September 16, 1997 by Ann Louise Bardach

All the Ramseys ever wanted to do from day one is to move on with life. I’m sorry, but that is only consistent with the behavior of suspects, not victims, not parents who have lost their daughter to some murdering pedophile.
The words of Marc Klass will forever be an indictment to the shameful and suspicious behavior of the Ramseys:
We bring these children into this world and it’s our duty then to do whatever we can to protect them and that includes totally cooperating with law enforcement right down the line"
…
"I don't believe there was an intruder inside the Ramsey house that evening I believe the evidence as we know it is pretty clear-cut. The only logical explanation for that ransom note is if it came from within the household itself."
-Mark Klaas

While there are considerable differences between the disappearance of Marc Klaas’ daughter, Polly Klaas, and the death of JonBenet, it is still a fact that as a parent Klaas could have been involved.

ERNIE ALLEN, PRES., NATIONAL CTR FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: It is surprising. And certainly, in this country, one of the first things that law enforcement would do is question the parents, question those who are around the children.
SNOW: Take the case of Polly Klaas, who was abducted from her home in 1993 and was found dead months later. Her father, Marc, says he and other family members were questioned by police and cleared within a week of Polly`s disappearance.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: We took polygraph exams, we answered all their questions until they were satisfied that we had nothing to do with it, and then they moved on.
http://truthofthelie.com/2007/10/mystery-of-madeleine-mccann-disappearance-still-unsolved/

Pat Brown: One of the things, I think Marc Klaas says it all of the time on Nancy Grace when he’s on there. He says, a parent, and he should know because he was a suspect right up front with his missing daughter, Polly, He says you do everything you can to get the focus off of you to clear your name so they can go look for the person because the family is always looked at first because we all know that that’s most likely the people that do in their children and have the proximity to them. So you want to make sure you clear yourself in every way possible so the police go okay it’s definitely nothing to do with you. You’re showing no signs of trying to obstruct the investigation, you’re showing no signs of defense initiatives, showing no signs that you’re not telling the truth. So, you know, we, we’re comfortable with you.
http://regretsandramblings.com/2011/08/04/pat-brown-on-websleuths-radio-transcript/

With approximately 77 abductions by family members for every kidnapping by a non-family member law enforcement will inevitably follow the statistics and concentrate on the child’s known universe. They will launch parallel investigations with a focus on the family and move outward. Like concentric ripples in a pond, they will look at family, friends and acquaintances, peripheral contacts, sex offenders registered in the community and finally the most frightening and daunting scenario of all: strangers.
As intrusive as it may become and as irrelevant as it may seem, fully cooperate with law enforcement and eliminate yourself as a suspect. They will ask questions that seem irrelevant and may even ask you to take a polygraph examination. It is not fair, but it is necessary. Remember, like you, law enforcement doesn’t know where your child is and the sooner they are able to gather and assimilate information and evidence, the sooner they are going to be able to direct their investigation toward the solution.
http://www.klaaskids.org/pg-mc-lawenforcement.htm

Although the following deals with a general missing child scenario, I thought it was relevant:
To give your child the best chance of being found, you and law enforcement must treat one another as partners. —Don Ryce
Few parents have had experience working with law enforcement agencies. Perhaps you have had contact previously with law enforcement as a result of a traffic ticket or an accident. If so, you probably saw law enforcement as the enforcer of rules that had been broken—not as a lifeline.
But when your child is missing, you and law enforcement become partners pursuing a common goal—finding your lost or abducted child. As partners, you need to establish a relationship that is based on mutual respect, trust, and honesty. As partners, however, you do not have to agree on every detail. This chapter provides insight into the relationship you are entering into with law enforcement—what you can expect from the investigation, what types of questions you are likely to be asked, and what situations you and your family are likely to encounter in the process.

Your Partnership With Law Enforcement
When asked if it bothered me to take a lie detector test, I told the reporter, “They can electrocute me if it will bring my son back.”
—Claudine Ryce

Most people do not believe that they will be victims of crime—or that their children will be victimized. But if a young member of your family becomes a victim, you will likely wonder what law enforcement expects of you and what you can expect of law enforcement. Understanding these expectations will deepen your knowledge of law enforcement’s role, establish a sound basis for your relationship with the agencies and organizations that are there to help, and assist you in handling this all-too-sudden change in circumstances.
Make sure law enforcement understands that your child is in danger and that his or her absence is likely to be involuntary. If your child is 10 years old or younger, it will not be hard to show that your child is in danger. However, if your child is older than 10, it is important to let law enforcement know that your child’s absence is not normal behavior and that you would be surprised if your child had disappeared voluntarily.
...
Be prepared for hard, repetitious questions from investigators. As difficult as it may be, try not to respond in a hostile manner to questions that seem personal or offensive. The fact is that investigators must ask difficult and sensitive questions if they are to do their jobs effectively.
...
Do everything possible to get you and your family removed from the suspect list. As painful as it may be, accept the fact that a large number of children are harmed by members of their own families, and therefore you and your family will be considered suspects until you are cleared. To help law enforcement move on to other suspects, volunteer early to take a polygraph test. Insist that both parents be tested at the same time by different interviewers, or one after another. This will help to deflect media speculation that one of you was involved in the disappearance.
Insist that everyone close to your child be interviewed. Encourage everyone—including family members, friends, neighbors, teachers, and coaches—to cooperate in the investigatory process. Although polygraph testing is voluntary, refusal to take a polygraph can cause law enforcement to spend time trying to eliminate an individual from the suspect list through other means and, as a result, take valuable time away from finding the real suspect.
...
Talk regularly with your primary law enforcement contact.
http://www.ncjrs.gov/html/ojjdp/204958/ch2.html

Let’s look at how the Ramseys used their resources:

On the night of December 27, the day after the debacle on Fifteenth Street, Detective Arndt and Sergeant Larry Mason arrived at Tin Cup Circle at 9:30 P.M. to schedule the formal interviews. But instead of stepping forward to cooperate, the Ramseys seemed to be fast fading from view.
John Ramsey was there but would not talk to them alone. Also present were his brother, Jeff Ramsey; Dr. Beuf, the pediatrician; Rod Westmoreland, Ramsey’s financial adviser from Atlanta, who introduced himself as an attorney; and the influential local lawyer Mike Bynum, who had once worked in the DA’s office. Bynum made his role official when he said he would be providing John Ramsey with legal advice.
It was the first time police had had a chance to speak with Ramsey since he had left his house the previous afternoon, yet he sat there with two lawyers.
The session lasted only forty minutes, during which time the detectives learned little. Ramsey asked no questions about the murder, the autopsy, or how JonBenét was killed. I later considered this very peculiar behavior. Parents usually want to provide information as soon as possible to help police find who harmed their child before the trail goes cold.
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 53

As the second full day of the investigation came to a close, the parents still would not give interviews to police and had hired lawyers and private investigators who were tying down the testimony of witnesses before police got to them.
“Why won’t they help us?” I wondered. “What are they afraid of?”
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 65

Detective Arndt made one final try at persuading the lawyers to grant interviews but was told that the family would be out of state for an unknown time. She responded that she had a single page of questions the police would like to have answered, and the attorney said, “Fax them.”
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 67

Certainly everyone has the right to hire a lawyer and the right to remain silent, and I could not blame someone with a lot of money for hiring an attorney with impeccable credentials. But Ramsey had gone far beyond protecting his interests. What he had done would be unheard of in most big cities, even in the largest police investigations, and he simply overwhelmed a little town like Boulder.
Starting only a few hours after he found the body of his daughter, he retreated into a legal stronghold that could not be cracked. At least, not by us.
Hal Haddon of Denver had been the chief trial deputy in the state public defender’s office before going into partnership with two other attorneys, Bryan Morgan (the friend and occasional breakfast partner of Pete Hofstrom in the DA’s office) and Lee Foreman, in 1976. Eight years later, when Colorado Senator Gary Hart failed spectacularly in his presidential bid, Haddon was his campaign manager. His candidate crashed, but Haddon was left plugged into the Democratic Party political network, particularly in Colorado. In the nineties, as the attorney for Rockwell International, he engineered a plea bargain as a grand jury investigated the company for alleged environmental crimes at the Rocky Flats nuclear weapons plant just outside Boulder. The deal so enraged the grand jurors that they leaked their secret report to the press. Ramsey hired Haddon.
Bryan Morgan of Boulder was no stranger to law enforcement, partially from his representation of a woman named Lee Lindsley in a case several years before. Police responding to her early morning 911 call had found the snow around the house undisturbed and her physician husband shot to death. She was charged with murder, but Morgan successfully argued that two intruders did it, and Lindsley was acquitted. She moved to Atlanta and taught at the elementary school attended by the older children of John Ramsey. The Lindsley and Ramsey cases had a lot of similarities, including a claim of an intruder and the same defense attorney, but Deputy DA Trip DeMuth, in an extraordinary decision, forbade my pursuing that line. “The case is sealed,” he said. We had never intended to razor-blade open the file but thought to interview some of the major participants. “Don’t go near it.” Ramsey hired Morgan.
John Ramsey hired Patrick Burke of Denver to represent Patsy. Burke had once worked with Pat Furman, a professor of law at the University of Colorado, to gain acquittal for a man allegedly involved in the white supremacist slaying of Denver talk-show host Alan Berg. Ramsey hired Furman, too. The police found it particularly interesting that John and Patsy would be represented by separate attorneys, a move that can indicate a possible conflict of interest between the parties.
A lawyer was needed in Atlanta for the family members back there, and someone suggested Jim Jenkins, one of the top lawyers in Georgia. Ramsey hired Jenkins.
The private investigative firm of Ellis Armistead in Denver was brought aboard. Pat Korten, a public relations specialist in Washington, D.C., was hired to deal with the press. Handwriting experts were hired. And John Douglas, a former FBI profiler who had spent a career getting into the minds of killers, was hired.
We referred to the whole pack as Team Ramsey, and although the attorneys resented being called “defense lawyers,” that’s precisely what they were, as one would later openly declare.
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, pages 110 - 111

Although still too distraught to meet with us, John and Patsy Ramsey spoke for several hours with their newest trophy hire, John Douglas, formerly with the FBI’s behavioral sciences unit.
John Ramsey’s lawyer Bryan Morgan was at the profiler’s side and permitted no direct questions about the Ramseys during a long interview.
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 136

Two months would pass before we finally got to interview Lucinda Ramsey Johnson. In the meantime, we learned that John Ramsey was paying both for his first wife’s lawyer and for the mortgage on her house. There was no doubt about her loyalty.
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 150

Fleet told us that Ramsey lawyer Mike Bynum had called them shortly after the body was discovered. Surely he was talking about December 27, the night John Ramsey talked with Bynum at the Fernie house. White found his notes and said, “No, it was the day before, on the afternoon of December 26.” You sure of that date? I asked. White checked his notes again. Yes.
The minds of two detectives went into overdrive. The body of JonBenét was found at 1:05 P.M., and John and Patsy left the house at about 2:30 P.M. NOW White was saying that an attorney was already in play, calling witnesses, only a few hours later. WOW!
Fleet added that he was also interviewed by three people associated with Team Ramsey the following day, December 27, when he didn’t know any better than to speak with them. The private investigators weren’t out canvassing the neighborhood for an intruder but were pinpointing the Ramseys’ best friends while the police were being stalled.
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, pages 287 - 288

“Team Ramsey:”

John Ramsey’s lawyers:
Lee Foreman (criminal defense attorney)
Hal Haddon (criminal defense attorney)
Bryan Morgan (criminal defense attorney)

Mike Bynum (civil defense attorney)
William Gray (civil defense attorney)
Lin Wood (civil defense attorney)

Patsy Ramsey’s lawyers:
Patrick Furman
Patrick Burke

Lawyer for Lucinda Johnson, Melinda, John Andrew, and Burke Ramsey:
James Jenkins

Private Investigators:
Ellis Armistead
Jon Foster
David Williams
Ollie Gray
John San Agustin
What were these investigators doing?
Q. Then what was, basically, your association with the private investigation of the potential suspects in the murder of JonBenet Ramsey?
A. The investigators were retained by our attorneys, and they stated to me that the principal purpose of those investigators was to prepare a defense in the case that the police might bring a charge against me. I hoped that they would also follow up on leads that came to us, but I was frequently reminded by our attorneys that their principal role was to prepare a defense should that be necessary.
Deposition of John Ramsey, December 12, 2001

Handwriting analysts:
Lloyd Cunningham
Howard C. Rile, Jr.

Other:
Patrick Korten - Media consultant
Charlie Russell – Public relations consultant

Rachelle Zimmer - Spokeswoman for the Ramsey family

John Douglas - Criminal profiler (consultant)

Ed Gelb - Polygrapher

Lou Smit – Friend

Mary Lacy - Friend

[eileenhawkeye]

If it only took a week to clear Marc Klaas, then it sounds like he was never a serious suspect. Polly's abduction was witnessed by two friends, and Richard Allen Davis looks nothing like Marc. I'm pretty sure it took longer than a week to clear Sierra's parents, and we know now that they weren't involved. Isabel Celis's parents haven't been cleared, and we haven't heard that they aren't cooperating. They don't even have lawyers. Maybe not the best example, because a lot of people think they are involved, but I'm still on the fence. But yeah, if it takes LE less than a week to clear someone, than it tells me that the whole questioning process was just routine.

[cynic]

Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye

If it only took a week to clear Marc Klaas, then it sounds like he was never a serious suspect. Polly's abduction was witnessed by two friends, and Richard Allen Davis looks nothing like Marc. I'm pretty sure it took longer than a week to clear Sierra's parents, and we know now that they weren't involved. Isabel Celis's parents haven't been cleared, and we haven't heard that they aren't cooperating. They don't even have lawyers. Maybe not the best example, because a lot of people think they are involved, but I'm still on the fence. But yeah, if it takes LE less than a week to clear someone, than it tells me that the whole questioning process was just routine.

There's considerably more in my post to establish my point other than what I offered with respect to Klass, although I have a great deal of respect and admiration for him and use his actions and life frequently in posts as a glowing example of how to deal with the authorities.
The Ramseys are a glowing example of how guilty people interact with the authorities.

[DeeDee249]

Originally Posted by sandover

JAR has a solid alibi.

The lack of film that morning is strange but hardly evidence of premeditation. That awful ransom note is evidence of no planning.

PR never loved JB; she used her. In life as in death.

His alibi isn't all that solid. He was seen by a neighbor walking into his father's house in Boulder. That ATM photo shows a young man in a cap which hides his face- no way to prove it is JAR. The movie ticket stub...really??? Like anyone can't get their hands on a ticket stub. A ticket stub can never prove the holder actually bought that ticket and was at that movie. Add this to the instant lawyering up of his mother and I'd be really suspicious of his whereabouts that day.

[sandover]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

His alibi isn't all that solid. He was seen by a neighbor walking into his father's house in Boulder. That ATM photo shows a young man in a cap which hides his face- no way to prove it is JAR. The movie ticket stub...really??? Like anyone can't get their hands on a ticket stub. A ticket stub can never prove the holder actually bought that ticket and was at that movie. Add this to the instant lawyering up of his mother and I'd be really suspicious of his whereabouts that day.

DeeDee, this would mean he so thoroughly planned the murder that he had a friend use his ATM card at a certain time to establish an alibi... how likely is that?