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11-20-2009, 08:48 AM
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Patsy's patsy...
I think that Patsy's patsy (a.k.a Pam Paugh) KNOWS just as much as John Ramsey does...she should be detained and questioned ...
I'm waiting for Pam's next interview, either by the media or the Boulder investigation. She should be asked the following:
Who physically wrote the list?
Who specifically wanted certain items?
Who wanted the painting?
Did it have a cord attached for hanging?
Were there items they wanted but didn't get?
Was she told exactly where everything was?
Were things not where she was told they would be?
Where did the items go?
Was anybody else in on making up this list?
Who else knew about the list?
Did she feel that ALL the items on the list were absolutely necessary for the Ramseys to have at that time period? Couldn't they make do with replacements? or atleast wait to have them at a later time? Why was it mandatory for them to have the items so soon??
Did the Ramsey's attorneys know about the list?
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11-20-2009, 08:59 AM
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DOI (HB) Page 11:
"Eventually, arrangements were made for Pam Paugh, Patsy's younger sister, to go back to the house under police supervision and get a few things we needed. She would be allowed to stand at the door of a room and point at the items. Then the police would carefully catalog these possessions and deliver them to her."
"Most of the items Patsy wanted were in a curio cabinet of keepsakes in our bedroom. Treasures from over the years filled the cabinet: Our children's first shoes, a christening gown Patsy had made for both of the children, baby teeth, JonBenet's baby locks, Patsy's baby shoes, and my baby rattle. Patsy particularly wanted Pam to get the My Twinn doll from under the Christmas tree and the pictures of the kids she kept on the sink in her bathroom."
"After gathering up what we had asked for, Pam was getting ready to leave when she had a feeling that something important had been missed. She asked to go back to JonBenet's room, and as she stood in the doorway, her attention was drawn to a seemingly insignificant gold medallion that JonBenet had won in the recent All-Stars Christmas Pageant, her last competition. The round medallion had been placed around her neck as the overall winner of the talent competition"
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11-20-2009, 09:02 AM
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I so wonder what they did with the missing pages from the note pad......
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IDI's&forensics : "Hofstrom walked in,almost as if on cue,to deliver a letter ordering the CBI not to test certain types of evidence,particularly very small samples.The instructions came not from the DA's office or the police department but from Bryan Morgan" 
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11-20-2009, 09:03 AM
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Lawrence Schiller's book "perfect Murder, Perfect Town" Page 56:
"The day before, one of Patsy Ramsey's sisters had gone into the house with police permission and taken out an oil printing, several American Girl dolls, a portfilio of JonBenet's pageant photographs, a pageant medal with a blue ribbon, graduation photos of the older children, and a Bible from John Ramsey's desk, but she had missed JonBenet's stuffed cat, which Patsy had wanted retrieved."
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11-20-2009, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redeemed
DOI (HB) Page 11:
"Eventually, arrangements were made for Pam Paugh, Patsy's younger sister, to go back to the house under police supervision and get a few things we needed. She would be allowed to stand at the door of a room and point at the items. Then the police would carefully catalog these possessions and deliver them to her."
"Most of the items Patsy wanted were in a curio cabinet of keepsakes in our bedroom. Treasures from over the years filled the cabinet: Our children's first shoes, a christening gown Patsy had made for both of the children, baby teeth, JonBenet's baby locks, Patsy's baby shoes, and my baby rattle. Patsy particularly wanted Pam to get the My Twinn doll from under the Christmas tree and the pictures of the kids she kept on the sink in her bathroom."
"After gathering up what we had asked for, Pam was getting ready to leave when she had a feeling that something important had been missed. She asked to go back to JonBenet's room, and as she stood in the doorway, her attention was drawn to a seemingly insignificant gold medallion that JonBenet had won in the recent All-Stars Christmas Pageant, her last competition. The round medallion had been placed around her neck as the overall winner of the talent competition"
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Funny how different their version is from ST's re this event. 
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11-20-2009, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redeemed
Lawrence Schiller's book "perfect Murder, Perfect Town" Page 56:
"The day before, one of Patsy Ramsey's sisters had gone into the house with police permission and taken out an oil printing, several American Girl dolls, a portfilio of JonBenet's pageant photographs, a pageant medal with a blue ribbon, graduation photos of the older children, and a Bible from John Ramsey's desk, but she had missed JonBenet's stuffed cat, which Patsy had wanted retrieved."
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I'd like to know what else she removed from the house and we have no idea about it.ST says in his book the bags were not checked by any LE officers. 
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IDI's&forensics : "Hofstrom walked in,almost as if on cue,to deliver a letter ordering the CBI not to test certain types of evidence,particularly very small samples.The instructions came not from the DA's office or the police department but from Bryan Morgan"
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11-20-2009, 09:07 AM
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Steve Thomas "Jonbenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation"
ST (HB) Page 52:
"She spent an hour on her first trip through the crime scene and emerged with a big cardboard box filled to the brim, which she plopped into the trunk of the police car. For the next several hours, Pam made about half a dozen trips through the bouse, often spending an hour or more inside, and hauled out suitcases, boxes, bags, and loose items until the backseat of the police car was stuffed like a steamer trunk."
"Pam's last trip was into the bedroom of JonBenet, and she pumped herself up again; "I can do this, I can do this, I can do this." She came back carrying an armload of stuffed animals and other items from the first room in the house to have been sealed off by police."
"Everett kept only a general inventory of what was removed, and even that abbreviated listing was astonishing. Stuffed animals, tiaras, three dresses for JonBenet, pageant photo portfolios, toys and clothes for Burke, John Ramsey's Daytime, the desk Bible, and clothing. For Patsy, there were black pants, dress suits, boots, and the contents of the curio cabinet. Bills, credit cards, a black cashmere trench coat, jewelry that included her grandmother's ring and an emerald necklace, bathrobes, a cell phone, personal papers, bank records, Christmas stockings, her Nordstrom's credit card, and even their passports. The patrol car was loaded with zipped bags, boxes, sacks, and luggage, the true contents unknown."
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11-20-2009, 09:13 AM
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Ok...now your child has just been murdered..you're staying over at your friends' house...obviuosly, you will need some stuff urgently...(umm..cant think of anything other than underwear and clothes really) ...and possibly passports, important paperwork...(just in case you needed to travel)..
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say-ok..you want to something to remind you of your daughter...something she loved dearly... a toy perhaps..or even two ...fair enough...
WHY WOULD YOU NEED AN ARMLOAD OF STUFFED ANIMALS???
AND HOW DO WE KNOW FOR SURE THAT NO CRITICAL EVIDENCE WAS "STUFFED" IN BETWEEN THE STUFFED ANIMALS ??!!!
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Last edited by redeemed; 11-20-2009 at 09:14 AM.
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11-20-2009, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redeemed
Ok...now your child has just been murdered..you're staying over at your friends' house...obviuosly, you will need some stuff urgently...(umm..cant think of anything other than underwear and clothes really) ...and possibly passports, important paperwork...(just in case you needed to travel)..
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say-ok..you want to something to remind you of your daughter...something she loved dearly... a toy perhaps..or even two ...fair enough...
WHY WOULD YOU NEED AN ARMLOAD OF STUFFED ANIMALS???
AND HOW DO WE KNOW FOR SURE THAT NO CRITICAL EVIDENCE WAS "STUFFED" IN BETWEEN THE STUFFED ANIMALS ??!!!
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Bingo.We'll never know because no one bothered to check the bags.
Btw,I can't recall.........when they sent Burke over to the White's....did he have a back pack with him or anything?TIA
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Last edited by madeleine; 11-20-2009 at 09:18 AM.
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11-20-2009, 09:18 AM
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Re the most incriminating stuff.....I think they get rid of it much sooner,maybe even that night or early that morning.
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IDI's&forensics : "Hofstrom walked in,almost as if on cue,to deliver a letter ordering the CBI not to test certain types of evidence,particularly very small samples.The instructions came not from the DA's office or the police department but from Bryan Morgan"
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11-20-2009, 09:21 AM
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I have no idea Madeleine re. what Burke left with...
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11-20-2009, 09:35 AM
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"Eventually, arrangements were made for Pam Paugh, Patsy's younger sister, to go back to the house under police supervision and get a few things we needed. She would be allowed to stand at the door of a room and point at the items. Then the police would carefully catalog these possessions and deliver them to her."
Hahahahaha.... "point at the items"????
PLEEEEEEZ...SPARE ME....
isnt it too late...so much contamination has already take place..does it really matter whether she pointed at the items or not?? Might as well remove them herself, just as John had carried JB, Patsy lay over JB etc..
Too late ..isn't it??
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11-20-2009, 12:18 PM
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Just to add: no one here is necessarily saying that Pam Paugh was in any way "in on it," correct?
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11-20-2009, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
Just to add: no one here is necessarily saying that Pam Paugh was in any way "in on it," correct?
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That's the jist of what I am getting.
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11-20-2009, 12:39 PM
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IMO
She doesn't know anything(I myself would be afraid that she can't keep her big mouth shut) about what happened and she's not involved.
They just USED her like they did with everyone else.
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11-20-2009, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madeleine
IMO
She doesn't know anything(I myself would be afraid that she can't keep her big mouth shut) about what happened and she's not involved.
They just USED her like they did with everyone else.
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That's pretty much my feeling on it. If nothing else, I chalk it up to the radioactive nature of this case. It contaminates everything and everyone that comes into contact with it.
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Last edited by SuperDave; 11-20-2009 at 12:48 PM.
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11-20-2009, 01:03 PM
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has there ever been an offical reason why LE let anyone in to remove stuff surely it would have been better for the ramsey's to give a list of stuff , and then someone from LE check the items weren't needed?
or am i missing something :s
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11-20-2009, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slug
has there ever been an offical reason why LE let anyone in to remove stuff surely it would have been better for the ramsey's to give a list of stuff , and then someone from LE check the items weren't needed?
or am i missing something :s
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Well, LE were biased from the start against the Ramseys. Oh, hang on...
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11-20-2009, 07:48 PM
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I'm sure I read in STs book that John wanted his golf clubs and so the bag was collected. The bag that just happened to be in the basement. For the man who rarely played golf.......
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11-20-2009, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaD
I'm sure I read in STs book that John wanted his golf clubs and so the bag was collected. The bag that just happened to be in the basement. For the man who rarely played golf.......
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...in December. In Colorado.
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11-20-2009, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slug
has there ever been an offical reason why LE let anyone in to remove stuff surely it would have been better for the ramsey's to give a list of stuff , and then someone from LE check the items weren't needed?
or am i missing something :s
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A house where a child was found dead and the killer still unknown should be considered an active crime scene. No point of entry for any alleged intruder had been established, and it was never determined exactly where JB was killed or what rooms she may have been brought through. There is no way ANYTHING should have been allowed to be removed from that house.
I had read that although Aunt P was escorted to the home by police (and illegally given a police jacket to wear) the police did not actually accompany her into the home. They really never looked at what she was taking. I recall reading that some LE did take issue with this, but were told not to "worry about it".
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11-21-2009, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaD
I'm sure I read in STs book that John wanted his golf clubs and so the bag was collected. The bag that just happened to be in the basement. For the man who rarely played golf.......
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Unbelievable!!! your daughter has just been murdered...WHAT ON EARTH WOULD YOU NEED YOUR GOLF CLUBS FOR??? esp. in winter???
Like I said, I understand if they demanded other more essential items..(clothes, money, documents, The Bible)...fair enough...
GOLF CLUBS??? I wonder what IDI have to say about that...
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11-21-2009, 05:50 AM
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Besides...if they were REALLY interested in bringing the killer to justice, they would try to preserve the crime scene as much as possible...Nothing should be touched , just in case no important evidence is lost...
Everything else could wait...even their clothes, pictures papers...
ARGHHHH...IM SO DISGUSTED ..SERIOUSLY...
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11-21-2009, 06:02 AM
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IIRC JR had offered the golf clubs to a friend to use on vacation before JBR was killed.
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11-21-2009, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redeemed
Besides...if they were REALLY interested in bringing the killer to justice, they would try to preserve the crime scene as much as possible...Nothing should be touched , just in case no important evidence is lost...Everything else could wait...even their clothes, pictures papers...
ARGHHHH...IM SO DISGUSTED ..SERIOUSLY...
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Exactly.Why would they give instructions for small samples NOT TO BE TESTED??????
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IDI's&forensics : "Hofstrom walked in,almost as if on cue,to deliver a letter ordering the CBI not to test certain types of evidence,particularly very small samples.The instructions came not from the DA's office or the police department but from Bryan Morgan"
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