NC-Shaniya Davis, 5, Allegedly sold by mother 11/10/09 #23

[Spacemonkey1975]

Some things that do not make sense to me;

No concrete reports of what drugs AD was on or doing, if MAM is a dealer he is probably not a user (other than pot).

The time of day and the whole motel thing is puzzling, had they been up all night blasting coke or smoking rock it would explain the time of day but it is pretty hard to do your thing after such a marathon.

I know it is useless and frustrating to apply logic to the behaviors of irrational/unstable people but some things just do not add up. Previous posters are correct, AD looks REAL good for a chronic crack/heroin user, and the dad, forget about it.....

There's more to this and I guess we'll have to wait til it comes out.

[lbminnesota]

Originally Posted by JennyMominRI

I would assume that once she hit school age DSS could verify she attends school in order to give benefits. My kids get a small stipend on my VA pension and I had to prove they lived with me. The main way I did that was with a form signed by the school. My daughter is turning 18 and they sent another form for the school to fill out to prove she is attending and will be in high school until June. Social Security Disability does the same thing

Since NC doesn't require attendance until age of 7, may not be concerned with a 5 year old.

[annettef49]

Has anyone ever thought that it is possible that AD said Coe was the one that took Shaniya because MAYBE it was Coe that she "sold" Shaniya too. Maybe? just maybe. again this is just MO.

[adtwah]

Originally Posted by winterrose

I felt that most of that service was just talking in code to KC.

Forgive me for asking, but what is KC?

[Tom'sGirl]

Originally Posted by lbminnesota

Melvin Pl is the address of Housing Authority but one of the apartment names is McNeill Apartments - Surprised there isn't a Davis Apartments just to add to the confusion.

Now that made me laugh out loud

[JennyMominRI]

Originally Posted by lbminnesota

Since NC doesn't require attendance until age of 7, may not be concerned with a 5 year old.

That refers to the school though,not DSS.
Here in RI school is only required until 16. I still had to prove the kids lived with me by sending the VA and SSDI I letter from the school.
I know these are not the same agency,but they may have similar rules

[LogicalMinds]

Hi there...just so sad

The school bothers me...why enroll Shaynia then let her be taken out or take her out??
I also question who had "authority" here...immunizations, enrollment, who to call in emergency?? Aunt Carrie was supposedly on the list cause that is how the cops knew to reach her?

I get bothered when people say "in a better place">> well it might be better but it is many years too soon....not to mention if it is so much "better" why wouldn't everyone just commit suicide or at least not have heart operations, chemotherapy...just say "I wanna go to the better place?"

I read Jennie in RI post...and her blog...(((hugs))) ...what an inspiration

Like Jennie I am not big on all this "God's Will">>> now this is JMO but I want NO part of a God who could create wars, Holocaust, 911, all all the sad litany of cases on these forums. I personally have had (many) rough and bad times...one thing that has given me comfort is a book called "When Bad Things Happen to Good People"..written by a Rabbi (and I am Catholic LOL)

it proposes that God created us but we have free will...God does not micromanage us, he can't rig the lottery or zap a tumor or make a rejecting lover change their heart/mind...or even stop a horror wreck like the sad tale of little Shaynia

but he can be there to give us strength, hope...and courage...
maybe courage to visit the doctor or get a second opinion....courage to change laws...

this is also seen in Christianity under the idea of "Jesus Wept"..(ie, that not even the son of God can change everything)

it is pretty much what I believe...keeps me somewhat sane

I pray for strength

Any "God" who would "call" a little girl to heaven and devise such horrors/rape is not a God I want. I personally believe that God/Jesus are upset and "cry" for Shaniya and all the others who suffer...
and offer us strength and comfort

I prefer to be proactive rather than reactive

A good start>>> write your letter to the FCC for Klaaskids

A CALL TO ACTION! We need 3 minutes to change how we find the missing. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

A CALL TO ACTION! We need 3 minutes to change how we find the missing. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

[songline]

Solstice Canyon and SusieQ
Thanks for straightening my head out on the dates of Dessert Storm. On the previous thread.

[not_my_kids]

I can tell you that in MI, to prove a child lives with you, you take them to the welfare appointment with you and show your birth certificate. There is no collaboration with any other government agency except CPS. If your kids are removed from your custody by CPS, they flag your welfare file.
That's it. A birth certificate and a child. (And, yes, that does need to change.) That's all you need to receive benefits from them. Welfare workers don't do home checks or any of that here, but I know they do in some other places, not sure about NC.

[kiki the parrot]

Originally Posted by panthera

Also, in the best interest of the child, a month after starting kindergarten isn't the time to decide it's also a good time to have 'mom' start bonding with the child. Starting school is an adjustment. Why compound it with visits to a mother she doesn't really know, in an environment so vastly different that what she's accustomed to? MOO

gee... yathink...

[Sgirl]

Hi. I have been following these threads for days but haven't posted. I have two things to add.

First, my feeling is that AD DID sell that baby to MAM. She probably told him (and perhaps several others before that) to go ahead and do what he wants. But she probably assumed he would bring her back. I wouldnt be surprised if that had happened before with other guys.

As far as the hotel thing goes, I really believe it is connected to the fact that they found feces on the porch/door handle. He may have intended to do it somewhere else, outside or in his car, but he had to clean her up first. That would explain why her scent was only found on the towels. He cleaned her up and they left.

I knew some people in my past who sell drugs. Money is no object because they didnt really "earn" it. It makes total sense to me that he took her to the hotel to clean her up, paid the money for an hour (like a john might for a prostitute) cleaned her up and intended to spend a little time with her there but heard about the amber alert and left. On NG tonight, one of the scrolls at the bottom of the screen said something like "McNeil is accused of killing Shaniya, raping her and dumping her body." The order of that sentence grossed me out but it is entirely possible considering how sick he obviously is...

[panthera]

Originally Posted by annettef49

Has anyone ever thought that it is possible that AD said Coe was the one that took Shaniya because MAYBE it was Coe that she "sold" Shaniya too. Maybe? just maybe. again this is just MO.

Even with that scenario, we'd need to explain McNeill taking Shaniya into the hotel, and then the charges of rape/murder against him. MOO

[panthera]

Originally Posted by kiki the parrot

gee... yathink...

Does that mean you agree??!!

[songline]

Originally Posted by GetSmart

As I recall I really don't remember alot of rage at Caylee's funeral either !! Just saying hummmmmmmmmmmmm

Not at the Funeral, and not in a way we would have expected but I think with CA you can see rage and anger misdirected often and for a long time, she has just begun to stop raging.......She just dispersed it everywhere.
The Funeral is not a place to express the rage...It is the place to celebrate the decease's life.
But I do have to add since it was I who asked; where is the Outrage???
Some people internalize, some go emotionally numb, But the rage has to be there at some point.
The forgiveness is interesting at this early stage.

[doobiedoo52]

The problem I have with the "cleaning her up" from the feces is--why would he drive all the way to Sanford. I hate to be graphic but if it was that bad, the odor would have been awful and quite a ways to drive to clean her up. JMO

[panthera]

Originally Posted by doobiedoo52

The problem I have with the "cleaning her up" from the feces is--why would he drive all the way to Sanford. I hate to be graphic but if it was that bad, the odor would have been awful and quite a ways to drive to clean her up. JMO

You're right ~ as in all over his car seats and he was carrying her into the hotel!

[nurselady]

Originally Posted by Tom'sGirl

You're a rare and good man Dr. Fessel

Amen;That is for sure!!

[Bobbisangel]

Originally Posted by GetSmart

As I recall I really don't remember alot of rage at Caylee's funeral either !! Just saying hummmmmmmmmmmmm

I thought Caylee's service was really nice. I may not care for George and Cindy Anthony but I thought the service was beautiful and the music was perfect for little Caylee. Everyone was well behaved in my opinion.

I watched part of Shaniya's service and turned it off. I won't go into detail but ........ Just looking at that little tiny casket was more then I could deal with. I'm used to praise music...it was just different. Don't want to be critical about it.

[kellync]

Originally Posted by Sgirl

Hi. I have been following these threads for days but haven't posted. I have two things to add.

First, my feeling is that AD DID sell that baby to MAM. She probably told him (and perhaps several others before that) to go ahead and do what he wants. But she probably assumed he would bring her back. I wouldnt be surprised if that had happened before with other guys.

As far as the hotel thing goes, I really believe it is connected to the fact that they found feces on the porch/door handle. He may have intended to do it somewhere else, outside or in his car, but he had to clean her up first. That would explain why her scent was only found on the towels. He cleaned her up and they left.

I knew some people in my past who sell drugs. Money is no object because they didnt really "earn" it. It makes total sense to me that he took her to the hotel to clean her up, paid the money for an hour (like a john might for a prostitute) cleaned her up and intended to spend a little time with her there but heard about the amber alert and left. On NG tonight, one of the scrolls at the bottom of the screen said something like "McNeil is accused of killing Shaniya, raping her and dumping her body." The order of that sentence grossed me out but it is entirely possible considering how sick he obviously is...

Welcome to WS, post more often, it helps to bounce ideas off of each other sometimes!

[Baznme]

Originally Posted by kellync

Welcome to WS, post more often, it helps to bounce ideas off of each other sometimes!

Kellync: Do you know if N.C. has the sunshine laws like Florida does?

[panthera]

Originally Posted by Baznme

Kellync: Do you know if N.C. has the sunshine laws like Florida does?

No we don't.

[MomofBoys]

First, my feeling is that AD DID sell that baby to MAM. She probably told him (and perhaps several others before that) to go ahead and do what he wants. But she probably assumed he would bring her back. I wouldnt be surprised if that had happened before with other guys.

I agree with you in terms of the bolded part. I think AD never expected for Shaniya to die. I think she brought her into the living room or into the front yard and accepted something ungodly would happen to her, but I believe she expected her to be back within a couple hours.

I also don't think she sold Shaniya to MAM or anyone else, at least in the strictest sense. I think she was woefully behind on a drug debt and MAM "suggested" Shaniya as payment. Suggestion might have involved threats to torture or kill AD or her son and Shaniya was relatively expendable. She hadn't had time to really bond. I think I might be in the minority by thinking that this decision was not an easy one for AD, but of course that doesn't excuse it by any means. I just think AD was a drug-addled mess who had quite a bit of pressure applied. She differs from the rest of us in that giving up Shaniya was actually something she would do instead of running screaming to the cops or a neighbor or BL or anyone else.

I don't think this was a routine thing, and I don't think AD shopped her out around town. After all, as much as we immerse ourselves in the cases here, I'm not sure that AD or MAM or anyone else had the connections or the marketing skills to enslave Shaniya. Did they even have internet access? I think AD was a monster who got caught in her first foray into this "business" and MAM might have raped kids before. I honestly think both of them were drugged out of their minds when they hatched this plan and that AD has a monstrous hell waiting for her when her mind clears. I wish pain and misery and eternal suffering on both of them.

I just don't think this was an enterprise. I think it was two sick, drugged-up freaks. One in jam, one a depraved pedo. My gut is that the deal was made in the early morning hours and Shaniya was dead by 8am that day. I refuse to give them credit for anything more organized than that.

[Bobbisangel]

Originally Posted by luckygirl

Oh, that's a really good point! I wouldn't doubt that AD collected benefits all 5 years. It could have been an agreement between AD and BL maybe that's the reason he was never put on the birth record......hmmmm

Remember seeing Shaniya in the graduation gown and hat? We know that she had just started kindergarden so the little graduation had to have been from Pre School. The father would have had to have the same info...shot records, SS# and everything else in Pre School too. I think he just thought it was time for her mother to raise her....and that left him with no responsibilities as far as kids are concerned.

I also remember him being upset because Child Protective Services didn't contact him when they had been to the mothers. They must have known he existed and had had Shaniya if he thought they should have contacted him.

[Bobbisangel]

Originally Posted by lbminnesota

I think enrolling Shaniya in school prompted the move back to AD. Up until this point, everything was loosey goosey. She was under everyone's radar. But once she entered school, the school requires medical history, shots, emergency numbers, social security #, and structure meaning a child is at school everyday.

He may not have wanted that responsibility - would mean going to court. Taking a paternity test. I have a sneaky suspicion everyone around Shaniya didn't want the courts/DSS to get involved for some reason.

Remember seeing Shaniya in the graduation gown and hat? We know that she had just started kindergarden so the little graduation had to have been from Pre School. The father would have had to have the same info...shot records, SS# and everything else in Pre School too. I think he just thought it was time for her mother to raise her....and that left him with no responsibilities as far as kids are concerned.

I also remember him being upset because Child Protective Services didn't contact him when they had been to the mothers. They must have known he existed and had had Shaniya if he thought they should have contacted him.

[GetSmart]

Earlier we were talking about evil.. This was in an email I got awhile back... and I thought I would share it. It says alot JMO
------
Real evil
Someone supposably found this posted on a forum after 9/11. It would seem to have been posted by someone who "knew" what true evil was.

There are those who don't believe "evil" exists-----that all things are
'relative'-----what may 'be' evil to one person is not so to another----
and that both 'views' are valid. I believe this to be absolute rubbish,
representing a lazy and cowardly thought process. Nevertheless...

There are some who believe evil exists, but who are realistic enough to
know that they have been relatively 'sheltered' from 'it', never really
experiencing 'it' in any substantial way. They may even consider
themselves 'blessed' in this regard.

Then there are those who believe evil exists and that they in fact have
experienced it directly, either being a victim of 'it', or maybe just
'witnessing' it first hand. However, what the majority of these people
experience is just 'petty' evil------petty animosities---
petty jealousies-----violence with petty motivations. Even some really
horrible acts are the resutls of 'petty evil'.

But there is another kind of evil which only a minority of people are
familiar with. It is something so dark, so alien to their own nature and
to what they had thought could even exist, that with their first
encounter of 'It', they are astonished--------'it can not be so, this
can not possibly be'. And they are 'diminished' by the encounter. There
is a loss of 'innocence' so profound that it seems almost irrepairable.
And this is a problem, for, in order to defeat this evil you must be
able to recognize it, to recognize it you must be able to
understand(know) it, and to know it a part of you must die. To hope and
to pray for the destruction of this evil is all fine and well. But so
long as no 'divine' intervention comes, the price of confronting 'It'
will be paid with blood----yours----or 'Its'. It will never be placated.
It can not be appeased. And these are the 'Powers' who rule this day.
– Author unknown