2008.07.15 Caylee allegedly called Casey

[tweety933]

OK, now this is the biggest whopper of them all (phone records aside), now that we have seen that Caylee was indeed deceased by this time per the plant experts.

Does anyone know if this statement by Casey will be able to be KEPT OUT of the jury's sight, or how it might be argued away?

[logicalgirl]

Over on the RHornsby thread he is saying every one of the statements she's made is admissable. I'm hoping it includes this one!

[impatientredhead]

Originally Posted by tweety933

OK, now this is the biggest whopper of them all (phone records aside), now that we have seen that Caylee was indeed deceased by this time per the plant experts.

Does anyone know if this statement by Casey will be able to be KEPT OUT of the jury's sight, or how it might be argued away?

Casey won't take the stand, so all they could present is her statement. She won't offer any explanation for the claim.
They can then prove that claim was in fact a lie.

Defense will say we have acknowledged that my client lied angle but being a liar under a time of extreme stress does not make her a killer. Kind of the you are not going to like my client or understand everything she has done, but that doesn't prove the case.

moo

[DaughterAlice]

Thanks for remembering this!! Nothing says "big fat liar" like a 4wk post-mortum phone call.

[impatientredhead]

Originally Posted by DaughterAlice

Thanks for remembering this!! Nothing says "big fat liar" like a 4wk post-mortum phone call.

And I can't even get my cell phone coverage in my living room!

[mydailyopinions]

Casey gave a written statement in which she stated that she spoke with her daughter..
I'd be ashamed if this wasn't allowed in at trial!

[tweety933]

Is it reasonable to doubt that THE person telling law enforcement that they spoke with the (now proven deceased) child, is not in fact the child's KILLER who is trying to delay the discovery of such a fact?

NO way do I expect jurors to think any differently than I do myself. This case is gonna hinge on what is REASONABLE to doubt.

I'm glad to hear that this testimony from Casey will most likely be put in front of the jury to hear.

Why else would you falsely say you heard from a missing child, if you hadn't?

I sincerely hope that Casey is convicted, whether or not the death penalty is imposed.

[cecybeans]

Originally Posted by logicalgirl

Over on the RHornsby thread he is saying every one of the statements she's made is admissable. I'm hoping it includes this one!

This lie also is the most knee-jerk in reaction of the many she told. It comes precisely at the point in the interview that LE is gently hinting that something may have happened to Caylee, that she is not "in the same state" as she was previously.

You can almost hear the light bulb turn on in her brain (similar to LA describing what LE will do when they arrive at the house and want to see if Caylee is really sleeping at Zanny's) and she instantly reacts by saying she spoke with her yesterday and immediately, as is her m.o., launches into the overly detailed book and shoe story (which sounds like it was lifted right off the "You Are My Sunshine" video), to counter the suggestion.

She obviously never had much practice thinking up things to say beforehand - if she did she would have certainly mentioned that the evening before as they were trying to locate Zanny. Sometimes I am not sure how much is indirectly because of CA's lack of follow-through and feeding her excuses, or how much may be she is just naturally the Idiot Savant of Liars.

[reeseeva]

Originally Posted by impatientredhead

Casey won't take the stand, so all they could present is her statement. She won't offer any explanation for the claim.
They can then prove that claim was in fact a lie.

Defense will say we have acknowledged that my client lied angle but being a liar under a time of extreme stress does not make her a killer. Kind of the you are not going to like my client or understand everything she has done, but that doesn't prove the case.

moo

BBM

But, this particular lie, I believe, points to her as the murderer. She was still in her mode of the previous 4 weeks of deceipt, and this day she receives a phone call?? Just thinking about her doing this again, makes my head hurt.

[logicalgirl]

Originally Posted by impatientredhead

Casey won't take the stand, so all they could present is her statement. She won't offer any explanation for the claim.
They can then prove that claim was in fact a lie.

Defense will say we have acknowledged that my client lied angle but being a liar under a time of extreme stress does not make her a killer. Kind of the you are not going to like my client or understand everything she has done, but that doesn't prove the case.

moo

But you aren't saying that is a reasonable believable defense argument are you? I really respect your opinions..

[impatientredhead]

Originally Posted by logicalgirl

But you aren't saying that is a reasonable believable defense argument are you? I really respect your opinions..

I don't think the jury will buy it, no.
I think it points to consciousness of guilt absolutely.

Just pointing out that I do not expect that we will hear any explanation of that statement from Casey or the defense team. It would not benefit the defense to keep the topic on the table of any length of time. All they can really say is she lied but that does not make her a murderer.

My personal belief is the only real defense in this case is to hammer away at the state not proving their case in hopes of getting one juror to feel there is a reasonable doubt. But even that only brings back a hung jury not an acquittal.

[hroark2112]

I get the feeling that statements like that will be the centerpiece of opening & closing arguments. Almost like a "If the glove does not fit, you must acquit" mantra.

[MD MOMMY]

Originally Posted by hroark2112

I get the feeling that statements like that will be the centerpiece of opening & closing arguments. Almost like a "If the glove does not fit, you must acquit" mantra.

This may just be the longest opening statement in history.

[chefmom]

Originally Posted by tweety933

Is it reasonable to doubt that THE person telling law enforcement that they spoke with the (now proven deceased) child, is not in fact the child's KILLER who is trying to delay the discovery of such a fact?

NO way do I expect jurors to think any differently than I do myself. This case is gonna hinge on what is REASONABLE to doubt.

I'm glad to hear that this testimony from Casey will most likely be put in front of the jury to hear.

Why else would you falsely say you heard from a missing child, if you hadn't?

I sincerely hope that Casey is convicted, whether or not the death penalty is imposed.

I could just kiss you, Tweety! This is such a logical, almost inarguable statement! Why in the world would the worried, distraught mother of a missing 2 year old lie about a phone conversation they had had just the day before? There is, IMO, no other reasonable explanation except that she was trying to hide the fact that the child was dead. Period. I sure hope the SA has thought about this.

[noonie]

Great Point!!! She was hoping all would believe she had been kidnapped by the (cough) Nanny !!! Thanks for reminding us of her stupidity once again!!

[AZlawyer]

Originally Posted by cecybeans

This lie also is the most knee-jerk in reaction of the many she told. It comes precisely at the point in the interview that LE is gently hinting that something may have happened to Caylee, that she is not "in the same state" as she was previously.

You can almost hear the light bulb turn on in her brain (similar to LA describing what LE will do when they arrive at the house and want to see if Caylee is really sleeping at Zanny's) and she instantly reacts by saying she spoke with her yesterday and immediately, as is her m.o., launches into the overly detailed book and shoe story (which sounds like it was lifted right off the "You Are My Sunshine" video), to counter the suggestion.

She obviously never had much practice thinking up things to say beforehand - if she did she would have certainly mentioned that the evening before as they were trying to locate Zanny. Sometimes I am not sure how much is indirectly because of CA's lack of follow-through and feeding her excuses, or how much may be she is just naturally the Idiot Savant of Liars.

Actually, she had been working on that lie for at least a day or so. She told Amy when she picked her up from the airport that Caylee had called her on a cell phone (from the nanny's house, I guess). Then she told Cindy before the police got involved that she had just talked to Caylee on the phone earlier that day.

[darnudes]

What I find interesting about her lying re this call is her need to establish the fact that Caylee was alive.

All the police or anyone knew at the time was that she had supposedly been kidnapped.

Why the lie? Because she knew Caylee was dead.

[cecybeans]

Originally Posted by AZlawyer

Actually, she had been working on that lie for at least a day or so. She told Amy when she picked her up from the airport that Caylee had called her on a cell phone (from the nanny's house, I guess). Then she told Cindy before the police got involved that she had just talked to Caylee on the phone earlier that day.

Thanks - I must have missed that in the depos. How disconnected of her though, not to have mentioned it while she was out with Yuri looking for Caylee. I'd think it would have been one of the first things out of her mouth, to mitigate the fact that she had admitted not seeing her for 31 days and not doing anything but frequent malls, parks and bars "looking" for her. Maybe she didn't see it as necessary until LE started hinting she may have some knowledge of what really happened.

[cecybeans]

Originally Posted by darnudes

What I find interesting about her lying re this call is her need to establish the fact that Caylee was alive.

All the police or anyone knew at the time was that she had supposedly been kidnapped.

Why the lie? Because she knew Caylee was dead.

Well, I think she was trying to establish Caylee was alive and had been heard from recently precisely because LE was intimating that she was not. They already knew the Zanny story was a crock, her job was a lie (before she even got there) and that the 31 days was also a load of bull. The only reasonable explanation was that KC knew something bad had happened, or had caused it, so LE was trying to see if she would come clean. Little did they know she had a history of stubbornly sticking to a story regardless of whether it made sense, just like her mom. I think she realized LE was not buying any of it and it was time to hunker down and deny, deny, deny.

[smart blonde]

I will never forget the first time I heard Casey on tape, telling the story to the investigators, of Caylee calling her.

I remember that when she was asked what Caylee said to her, Casey pitched her voice very high and said, "Hi Mommy!".

The hair on the back of my neck stood on end. I got 'goose bumps'.

For some reason, that was one of the creepiest things I have ever heard. Just the way Casey said it.

At that very instant, the first time I heard that tape, I knew Casey was lying.

I had a definite feeling Caylee was dead, and that Casey knew it.

[cecybeans]

Originally Posted by smart blonde

I will never forget the first time I heard Casey on tape, telling the story to the investigators, of Caylee calling her.

I remember that when she was asked what Caylee said to her, Casey pitched her voice very high and said, "Hi Mommy!".

The hair on the back of my neck stood on end. I got 'goose bumps'.

For some reason, that was one of the creepiest things I have ever heard. Just the way Casey said it.

At that very instant, the first time I heard that tape, I knew Casey was lying.

I had a definite feeling Caylee was dead, and that Casey knew it.

Oooh, you're right. And she used that same fakey voice when her parents visited her in jail and she was acting all sarcastic about the food. Creeped me out totally!

[smart blonde]

Not that it makes much difference anyway, but did Casey say that Caylee called her on that Black-Jack phone that was 'missing'?

[BondJamesBond]

Interesting thread, tweety.

Spinning this tale also launched Casey down the path of lemme-show-you-how-little-I-know-or-have-thought-about forensics supporting/debunking my alibi. She was desperate. A little forethought and Casey would've realized phone records would obliterate her credibility. I mean...even checking the call history on the phone in her hand was something LE could do on the spot.

Was called to my attention by another WS that Casey's statement also claims she last spoke w/ ZFG on the Thursday after Caylee's disappearance. Look past the date mix-up and you have the likely day of disposal = last time Casey was in contact w/ ZFG in her story.

I'm sure the psych angles have been explored that ZFG was a personality Casey created to carry the blame of her act. IOW...handing Caylee over to ZFG at the Sawgrass steps on Monday meant Caylee's death happened @ someone else's hand...in her mind. Self-protection mechanism. With this approach Casey had to mentally call on ZFG on Thursday to take on the ugly task of disposal IYKWIM.

Casey eventually (w/ Cindy's help IIRC) got to the point that she was claiming her silence/diversion was to protect the family from some sort of retaliation by the ZFG gang. Like maybe......coming face:face w/ the reality of what had really happened? Ironic. This approach at least gives way to, "Hey - of course, I made it all up! I'm a martyr."

...sorry for the OT. Yes, ITTA, examining Casey's actions in the early hours & days exposes her m.o. of action/reaction *ahem* storytelling.

And tossing in for good measure to go along w/ motivation for the 7/15 phone call claim, I look forward to the defense having to explain her IM w/ Iassen gushing 'bout how much she loves ZFG...well into July. So...a protect-you-from-ZFG only goes so far w/ a semi-reasonable person...gushing 'bout ZFG unprovoked tells a different tale 'bout the motive of the teller IMHO.

[tweety933]

I think this LIE that Casey told about talking to Caylee on July 15th should be one of the main topics of the prosecutions opening statement, along with the plant experts timeline.

I would actually leave out the ZFG stuff, because those lies are inconsequential compared to this phone call lie. I hope the prosecutors make this trial as simple as possible and don't get tripped up trying to debunk ALL of the lies, and LOSE this very important LIE in the process!

[BondJamesBond]

I don't disagree, Tweety. IMHO, the most valuable element of "ZFG" is that it gives SA a solid launching point to build on. For example, ladies & gentlemen of the jury, we've established that Ms. Anthony lied. The defense told you that doesn't mean she's guilty of murder. Let's focus now on WHY she lied. What was her motive?

More to come...