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  #151  
Old 12-07-2009, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kiki the parrot View Post
Neither do I believe sociopaths are born... they are made IMO, somewhere along the way.

I think it's usually a nature and nurture mix. We are born with biological predispositions and temperaments, and the interactions of them with their environment are what shape us.

But the nurture factor isn't limited to parents' influence, or both parents'. A good girl could do her best to raise a son without a daddy, or with a bad daddy who comes and goes. That's not her fault. A great couple could have a kid with mental or temperamental problems.

I have seen several excellent parents who've had other kids turn out great, and one not. One is a psychopath. One was a nerd who got with the wrong crowd. One got into drugs and was just a petty thief and loser... The list goes on.... But that's why I don't think we can be sure it's the parents' faults.

Odds are that bad parenting is the reason, but it's not always the reason.
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  #152  
Old 12-07-2009, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Muffet View Post
That's why I added "knowing" to "seeing" her and that while we can't know, the odds are there was neglect. (And it's why I thanked your post, that "there were likely years during which GT's mom probably just figured her son's activities were none of her bidnezz".

But I have personally seen good parents have bad kids, so that's as far as I'll go: odds make it likely.
Hey friend, something tells me it might also depend upon how we're defining "good," and "bad..."

  #153  
Old 12-07-2009, 03:48 PM
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I'm thinking we will have a verdict tomorrow am.
I would agree. late morning, early afternoon. They have a little more difficult task, deciding which George is a part of. How long was the Cobbins jury out? Usually the say a quick verdict favors the state and long deliberations favor defense. But I think the opposite is true here. If its a quick verdict, I think they jury decides GT didn't have anything to do with it.
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  #154  
Old 12-07-2009, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kiki the parrot View Post
Hey friend, something tells me it might also depend upon how we're defining "good," and "bad..."

Could be.

Right now I'm just wanting a good verdict, really bad.
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  #155  
Old 12-07-2009, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Muffet View Post
I think it's usually a nature and nurture mix. We are born with biological predispositions and temperaments, and the interactions of them with their environment are what shape us.

But the nurture factor isn't limited to parents' influence, or both parents'. A good girl could do her best to raise a son without a daddy, or with a bad daddy who comes and goes. That's not her fault. A great couple could have a kid with mental or temperamental problems.

I have seen several excellent parents who've had other kids turn out great, and one not. One is a psychopath. One was a nerd who got with the wrong crowd. One got into drugs and was just a petty thief and loser... The list goes on.... But that's why I don't think we can be sure it's the parents' faults.

Odds are that bad parenting is the reason, but it's not always the reason.
(bbm) Bold is precisely why I don't accept the argument (against sociopaths being made) which points to two siblings from the same parents, and so-called "same environment" turning out so differently--doesn't wash w me.

I agree w most of what you say. It's just after 50 years of life experience--and after following as many of these trials as I have in which we learn of the defendants' past--I'm just unable to ignore the early formative years and influences of parental upbringing. So often too it is the ones who are absent during the critical years from whom we see the greatest wailing and gnashing of teeth after the fact.

My 17 yr-old son, who is home today, popped his head in and asked what I was listening to... and after briefing him on the most recent trial, I didn't have to ask what his reaction was... the revulsion and disgust toward anyone who could participate--on any level--was plain. JMO



Last edited by kiki the parrot; 12-07-2009 at 04:12 PM.
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  #156  
Old 12-07-2009, 04:05 PM
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Has the jury been sent to deliberate yet?
  #157  
Old 12-07-2009, 04:08 PM
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Has the jury been sent to deliberate yet?
Yes ma'am..as of about 45 minutes ago Suzi!
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  #158  
Old 12-07-2009, 04:13 PM
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Yes ma'am..as of about 45 minutes ago Suzi!
Thanks. I'm on pins and needles here.
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  #159  
Old 12-07-2009, 04:17 PM
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I wonder how late the judge will have the jury deliberate? Did he say anything before he sent them out?
  #160  
Old 12-07-2009, 04:20 PM
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I remember when another son (my oldest) --now 25--was five years or so he was nearly run over in my nextdoor neighbor's drive--it was on a slope, and my son was bent over in the path of their car as they backed up where he had hurriedly stooped down to rescue a beetle, stranded on it's back...

Either one of my son's would likely have died to protect Channon and prevent her suffering--if, unlike Chris, given an opportunity--even were she a total stranger. IMO there was absolutely nothing stopping GT from leaving and seeking help yet there he sat there rollin and smokin blunts--at the very least watching--sayin it 'wuddn't none o his bidnezz' while makin it his bidnezz to enjoy the nice whip. I hope he's sentenced justly for his heartless, inhumane role in these heinous crimes.



Last edited by kiki the parrot; 12-08-2009 at 12:07 AM.
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  #161  
Old 12-07-2009, 04:23 PM
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I wonder how late the judge will have the jury deliberate? Did he say anything before he sent them out?
He did make the comment that he wanted them to quit at 5, for some reason?
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  #162  
Old 12-07-2009, 04:24 PM
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Here we go:

The finalized verdict form:
http://www.wbir.com/pdf/12072009_ver...orms_final.pdf

The finalized jury charge
http://www.wbir.com/pdf/12072009_thomas_jury_charge.pdf

Maybe we can try to guess how they'll fill it out.
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  #163  
Old 12-07-2009, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Muffet View Post
Here we go:

The finalized verdict form:
http://www.wbir.com/pdf/12072009_ver...orms_final.pdf

The finalized jury charge
http://www.wbir.com/pdf/12072009_thomas_jury_charge.pdf

Maybe we can try to guess how they'll fill it out.
Thank you! Let's see what we can come up with!
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  #164  
Old 12-07-2009, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kiki the parrot View Post
I remember when another son (my oldest) --now 25--was five years or so he was nearly run over in my nextdoor neighbor's drive--it was on a slope, and my son was bent over in the path of their car as they backed up where he had stooped down to rescue a beetle, stranded on it's back...

Either one of my son's would likely have died to protect Channon and prevent her suffering--if, unlike Chris, given an opportunity--even were she a total stranger. IMO there was absolutely nothing stopping GT from leaving and seeking help yet there he sat there rollin and smokin blunts--at the very least watching--sayin it 'wuddn't none o his bidnezz' yet makin it his bidnezz to enjoy the "nice ride." I hope he is sentenced justly for his heartless, inhumane role in these heinous crimes.


ITA It seems like every day we have another thread here where there was a heinous victimization, and people around - including parents and cps - saw it coming or happening, but didn't act when they coulda, shoulda, woulda.

The good news is that TK and Price did a great job today showing just how callous - and likely involved - GT was.

The 4 in the 4Runner is huge. His admission that he knew they were going to carjack - and yet stayed there - was huge. His ability to come and go was huge...

And when TK pointed out the lack of forensic evidence against Boyd, who GT himself fingered, that was like a gut-shot to the defense. IMO

I doubt they give him anything like Cobbins or Davidson, but they're not going to buy the defense's game.

Looking at the charge and jury form, it's a challenge to figure out what they will select.
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  #165  
Old 12-07-2009, 05:10 PM
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I could see the jury easily finding him guilty on the participation of the car-jack, kidnapping of Channon. Perhaps the robbery as well. I really think there is a miscarraige of justice as it applies to the murder of Newsom in allowing these defendants to be tried separately. We know that at least 2, maybe 3 or 4 of them took Chris to the railroad tracks, but only one will ever get convicted of it.
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  #166  
Old 12-07-2009, 05:10 PM
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They're done for the day. Deliberations will continue in the morning.
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  #167  
Old 12-07-2009, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by PrairieWind View Post
I could see the jury easily finding him guilty on the participation of the car-jack, kidnapping of Channon. Perhaps the robbery as well. I really think there is a miscarraige of justice as it applies to the murder of Newsom in allowing these defendants to be tried separately. We know that at least 2, maybe 3 or 4 of them took Chris to the railroad tracks, but only one will ever get convicted of it.
Do you think not guilty on the murder or facilitaion of murder charges? Sadly, in my opinion, if he is found guilty of anything related to the murders it will be CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE.

Last edited by Indianagirl; 12-07-2009 at 05:15 PM.
  #168  
Old 12-07-2009, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by PrairieWind View Post
I could see the jury easily finding him guilty on the participation of the car-jack, kidnapping of Channon. Perhaps the robbery as well. I really think there is a miscarraige of justice as it applies to the murder of Newsom in allowing these defendants to be tried separately. We know that at least 2, maybe 3 or 4 of them took Chris to the railroad tracks, but only one will ever get convicted of it.
Me too, PW. But as long as the jury believes Jenkins' testimony of 4 black men in the 4Runner going to those RR tracks, and I thought he was a very credible witness, then I bet they'll get him for that.

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  #169  
Old 12-07-2009, 05:20 PM
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Do you think not guilty on the murder or facilitaion of murder charges? Sadly, in my opinion, if he is found guilty of anything related to the murders it will be CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE.
Well,he would be guilty of the felony murder of Channon by virture of his participation in the kidnapping. As for the premeditated murders, i'm guessing not guilty or guilty of facilitation. I dont think the jury would find the negligent homicide since that implies and negligetn, rather than intentional act, as if Channon or Chris was accidently killed.
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  #170  
Old 12-07-2009, 05:23 PM
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Unhappy

whew, have I missed anything? Had to put dinner in the oven. I thought the judge was going to let the jury go home around five. I think they are an hour behind me on the East Coast. So, maybe another thirty minutes to an hour? I have an uneasy feeling about this one.
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  #171  
Old 12-07-2009, 05:29 PM
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Ok, I set Jamie to tweet my phone.
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  #172  
Old 12-07-2009, 06:54 PM
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whew, have I missed anything? Had to put dinner in the oven. I thought the judge was going to let the jury go home around five. I think they are an hour behind me on the East Coast. So, maybe another thirty minutes to an hour? I have an uneasy feeling about this one.
Maybe they started looking at the jury form and were so overwhelmed they crashed.

I doubt they're allowed to take a personal copy of that or the charge/instructions to read over alone, but it would be nice, since it takes some time reading to figure out the differences between all these charges.
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  #173  
Old 12-07-2009, 09:01 PM
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Pictures from today:http://www.knoxnews.com/photos/galle...ay-dec-7-2009/
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  #174  
Old 12-08-2009, 02:18 AM
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I want to say thank you to SuziQ, Muffet, kiki, and everyone else who has been doing such a great job of keeping us updated on the trial! You have all done an awesome job!

I've tried to listen, but my two-year-old granddaughter seems to think that I have other more important things to do! LOL

I hope "G" has a sleepless night. I pray that the jury finds him guilty of the facilitation charges at the very least. I don't think he was "an innocent bystander" in this whole mess. Personally, I think he shot Chris at least once, to prove himself to "GuttaSlim."

I am just glad that "G's" lawyers didn't slam the victims like "GuttaSlim's" did. There is NO excuse for how those defense lawyers acted in "GuttaSlim's" trial. Although I do have to say, it didn't work out too well for their client!
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  #175  
Old 12-08-2009, 10:08 AM
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Gt seated in court. Not sure if they have a verdict or what.

I just have the video on this morning and the sound just came on and showed people entering the court room.
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