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Caylee Anthony 2 years old Not reported missing for a month after she was last seen.


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Old 01-05-2011, 12:58 PM
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Hi AZ, the Universal studio statement is tricky for me. I get the whole "reasonable person" thing, but I'm wondering what reasonable person standard would apply here...ie)a reasonable person with a missing child who is getting the police to help locate them, or a reasonable person who knows their child has been murdered? I mean, Somer Thompson's mother, if she went with police to be interviewed when Somer went missing and they ended up in a room with a closed door, would NEVER think she was in custody, right? I guess my questions is, in the states, how specific to each case does the "reasonable person" standard get?
The standard, I believe, is that of a reasonable innocent person, but the determination is extremely specific to the facts of each case and is handled differently by the courts of different states.

I posted some recent Florida case law in the motion thread so everyone could see how the Florida courts are handling this issue.
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"It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AZlawyer View Post
The standard, I believe, is that of a reasonable innocent person, but the determination is extremely specific to the facts of each case and is handled differently by the courts of different states.

I posted some recent Florida case law in the motion thread so everyone could see how the Florida courts are handling this issue.
Thank you AZ, I think most of us just don't want to believe it's possible to suppress these statements and hate that it is a real likelihood. I recognize ICA reiterated her story many times, and everything she said at Universal can be found in other statements, but IMHO, it's the wow factor that she went to Universal acting as if she worked there, so far as to walk LE to her pseudo-office and the confession that she lied.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:20 PM
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Regarding the "Oceans of Motions" hearing on Monday:

Can you please shed any light as to why Cheney Mason apparently invited Judge Eaton (?) to attend. It was not lost on me that HHJP interrupted CM to point out that the judge was leaving during CM's argument; nor was CM's incredulous reaction and response, "No. Well, he is not supposed to be leaving." (paraphrased) He seemed a bit flustered, iykwim.

I have my suspicions, but surely he would not be doing what I suspect. Seriously.

Thoughts?
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Last edited by beach; 01-05-2011 at 03:40 PM. Reason: left out a very important word: "not"
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 'Beach View Post
Regarding the "Oceans of Motions" hearing on Monday:

Can you please shed any light as to why Cheney Mason apparently invited Judge Eaton (?) to attend. It was not lost on me that HHJP interrupted CM to point out that the judge was leaving during CM's argument; nor was CM's incredulous reaction and response, "No. Well, he is not supposed to be leaving." (paraphrased). He seemed a bit flustered, iykwim.

I have my suspicions, but surely he would be doing what I suspect. Seriously.

Thoughts?
Well, CM was able to get Judge Strickland to step-down. My guess, CM was up to his old tricks. He has nothing to lose here, nothing. What can the court do to him? His career is over. He's planning on retiring and since he can't hear well it's about time. I think CM has some personal issues and he plans to "get even" before he leaves for good. lol Remember CM asking Judge Strickland in court if he trusted him? I bet there was some bad blood there. Just a guess but the "tight boots" comment JS by was meant to hit a nerve and my guess is it did. jmo
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 'Beach View Post
Regarding the "Oceans of Motions" hearing on Monday:

Can you please shed any light as to why Cheney Mason apparently invited Judge Eaton (?) to attend. It was not lost on me that HHJP interrupted CM to point out that the judge was leaving during CM's argument; nor was CM's incredulous reaction and response, "No. Well, he is not supposed to be leaving." (paraphrased) He seemed a bit flustered, iykwim.

I have my suspicions, but surely he would not be doing what I suspect. Seriously.

Thoughts?
There are so many possibilities. Here's my favorite : Maybe CM wants to get the heck out of this case now that the "fun" is diminishing, and he invited Eaton (newly retired) to come on down and watch the "dream team" in action to see if he wanted to join up and take CM's place. Eaton watched until he couldn't stand it anymore. After the hearing, Eaton told CM he wanted no part of it, and that's why CM was pouting in court today.
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"It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94
  #1581  
Old 01-05-2011, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 'Beach View Post
Regarding the "Oceans of Motions" hearing on Monday:

Can you please shed any light as to why Cheney Mason apparently invited Judge Eaton (?) to attend. It was not lost on me that HHJP interrupted CM to point out that the judge was leaving during CM's argument; nor was CM's incredulous reaction and response, "No. Well, he is not supposed to be leaving." (paraphrased) He seemed a bit flustered, iykwim.

I have my suspicions, but surely he would not be doing what I suspect. Seriously.

Thoughts?
Sorry about the O/T (and in the legal thread yet!) but did you notice HHJP's eye twinkle? My bet - they are all golfing buddies and it was Judge Eaton's turn to buy lunch before their game. Cause HHJP sure thought it was amusing!
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:56 PM
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When I can I will find for us the many times in court Cheney mentions we are going to be having "Some federal issues here, real soon", and other threats like that. He does this very often. He has it in his mind, that he does NOT have to reveal what the experts will testify to, not by a long shot, he has said that plainly and clearly and he is going to try to raise it to appeal or have the judge set aside his order for the defenes to have to do so. He said in the last hearing, No where in the rules does it provide for us to have to give a script of what the experts will say. He was adamant. Unfortunately for him, he is not looking at it the right way, the judge was indeed well within his rights and had shown considerable leniency, imo. It is almost as if he is from another state and wholly unfamiliar with Florida rules of discovery. Odd.

What option does he have to pursue this?
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:06 PM
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At some point if the judge decides JB is not capable of handling this case properly, can he make KC get a new lawyer?
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  #1584  
Old 01-05-2011, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by The World According View Post
When I can I will find for us the many times in court Cheney mentions we are going to be having "Some federal issues here, real soon", and other threats like that. He does this very often. He has it in his mind, that he does NOT have to reveal what the experts will testify to, not by a long shot, he has said that plainly and clearly and he is going to try to raise it to appeal or have the judge set aside his order for the defenes to have to do so. He said in the last hearing, No where in the rules does it provide for us to have to give a script of what the experts will say. He was adamant. Unfortunately for him, he is not looking at it the right way, the judge was indeed well within his rights and had shown considerable leniency, imo. It is almost as if he is from another state and wholly unfamiliar with Florida rules of discovery. Odd.

What option does he have to pursue this?
I never have the opportunity to watch the hearings, so I would need some context. He might just be talking about a habeas corpus proceeding in federal court down the line (post-conviction)--complaining that the State of Florida didn't protect Casey's basic federal constitutional rights.
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"It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Moe View Post
At some point if the judge decides JB is not capable of handling this case properly, can he make KC get a new lawyer?
I suppose if JB demonstrated an inability to, e.g., examine witnesses, HHJP could order that all witness examinations be prepared and handled by CM (god forbid) or another death-penalty qualified lawyer. JB always has to have death-penalty qualified people on the case with him, so calling him "lead counsel" is just a matter of ego really.
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"It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:39 PM
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AZlawyer, according to the cases that you gave snippets of earlier, it seems entirely possible that the court will find that KC was not in custody until she turned around and admitted that she had lied and the detective confronted her about it all in the little room. If so, then the trip to Universal and the walk down the hall could come in, just not her statement. Is that right?
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  #1587  
Old 01-05-2011, 05:25 PM
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AZlawyer, according to the cases that you gave snippets of earlier, it seems entirely possible that the court will find that KC was not in custody until she turned around and admitted that she had lied and the detective confronted her about it all in the little room. If so, then the trip to Universal and the walk down the hall could come in, just not her statement. Is that right?
I hope so. I think that's a good argument for the State to make, and I would really like the jury to hear about Casey's confident walk toward her "office."
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"It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:37 PM
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I never have the opportunity to watch the hearings, so I would need some context. He might just be talking about a habeas corpus proceeding in federal court down the line (post-conviction)--complaining that the State of Florida didn't protect Casey's basic federal constitutional rights.
And how, exactly, have they not protected her FCR?

Got any examples?
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  #1589  
Old 01-05-2011, 05:39 PM
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And how, exactly, have they not protected her FCR?

Got any examples?
Jeez, you want me to write all the defense briefs lol?

I personally think HHJP is doing an incredible bang-up job of protecting her constitutional rights, even to the point of forcing her lawyers to be better lawyers than they are naturally inclined to be.
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"It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94
  #1590  
Old 01-05-2011, 05:52 PM
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Jeez, you want me to write all the defense briefs lol?

I personally think HHJP is doing an incredible bang-up job of protecting her constitutional rights, even to the point of forcing her lawyers to be better lawyers than they are naturally inclined to be.
BBM - He certainly is, which is why I questioned the "not protecting Casey's Federal Constitutional Rights" comment. He didn't become CHIEF JUDGE by happenstance, you know?

I didn't realize you had written any Defense briefs in this case?
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:53 PM
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BBM - He certainly is, which is why I questioned the "not protecting Casey's Federal Constitutional Rights" comment. He didn't become CHIEF JUDGE by happenstance, you know?

I didn't realize you had written any Defense briefs in this case?
I'm joking. There was one time I wrote this long explanation of my analysis of a legal issue while a suspected "spy" was "in the house," and a few hours later this hurried, faxed brief was filed saying the same thing lol. Probably a coincidence but made me
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"It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94
  #1592  
Old 01-05-2011, 07:18 PM
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Jeez, you want me to write all the defense briefs lol?
<snip>

No. Please.

If you insist, I am going to petition the admins for your own room downstairs and they are going to be forced to "register" to get your work.

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  #1593  
Old 01-05-2011, 07:20 PM
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Two questions:

1. During the trial can the State show video of Cheney Mason and Jose Baez talking to the press saying things like, "This case will be fun", and "When you hear her story you will understand" etc? How can they get away with some of the things they say?

2. Since Cheney Mason takes every opportunity to tell the Court and media he is retiring, what is the likelihood he would give up his time, etc to represent ICA either on appeal or for Federal issues?
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:55 PM
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Two questions:

1. During the trial can the State show video of Cheney Mason and Jose Baez talking to the press saying things like, "This case will be fun", and "When you hear her story you will understand" etc? How can they get away with some of the things they say?

2. Since Cheney Mason takes every opportunity to tell the Court and media he is retiring, what is the likelihood he would give up his time, etc to represent ICA either on appeal or for Federal issues?
1. No. But that would be fun, I agree. They can get away with it because it is just bluster, in which criminal defense attorneys are allowed to engage. How does a used car salesman get away with telling you a car is a "real steal" lol? Same thing.

2. Who knows? He seems to think this is a fun retirement activity, sort of like shuffleboard.
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"It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:21 PM
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Is it just bluster when Baez accuses the SA of creating and releasing the Jib Jab video in an effort to embarrass him? Doesn't he have to provide proof for statements of this kind? If they had really done that wouldn't there be some serious repercussions?
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:27 PM
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JB can depose JJ again right? Why didn't he just do that instead of claiming ignorance regarding pictures? Had he went this route wouldn't he of had a better chance of possibly having access to his computer files?
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:17 PM
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I'm joking. There was one time I wrote this long explanation of my analysis of a legal issue while a suspected "spy" was "in the house," and a few hours later this hurried, faxed brief was filed saying the same thing lol. Probably a coincidence but made me
I sure hope you sent an invoice to JAC for that!

thanks for everything you do here!
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:42 PM
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Is it just bluster when Baez accuses the SA of creating and releasing the Jib Jab video in an effort to embarrass him? Doesn't he have to provide proof for statements of this kind? If they had really done that wouldn't there be some serious repercussions?
That wasn't bluster, that was foolishness. He's reviewing the discovery releases with apparently no ability or inclination to figure out what any of it actually is. Yes, he would have had to provide proof if the State's attorneys hadn't decided to just roll their eyes and give JB that "win."

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Originally Posted by MD MOMMY View Post
JB can depose JJ again right? Why didn't he just do that instead of claiming ignorance regarding pictures? Had he went this route wouldn't he of had a better chance of possibly having access to his computer files?
He would probably need to get a court order to depose JJ again, and "um, I forgot to ask any useful questions last time" might not be a good enough reason for HHJP.
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"It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ZsaZsa View Post
Is it just bluster when Baez accuses the SA of creating and releasing the Jib Jab video in an effort to embarrass him? Doesn't he have to provide proof for statements of this kind? If they had really done that wouldn't there be some serious repercussions?
A follow up question in the same basic vein. That filed motion concerning the JibJab video, that claims the prosecutors made and distributed it to defame and ridicule the defense lawyers or some such. Is that something that can be brought back as a bar complaint? I mean accusing the oposing council of something like that in a public press conference is as you say all meaningless bluster... but when you file that as a motion, does that become something actionable?
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:51 PM
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That wasn't bluster, that was foolishness. He's reviewing the discovery releases with apparently no ability or inclination to figure out what any of it actually is. Yes, he would have had to provide proof if the State's attorneys hadn't decided to just roll their eyes and give JB that "win."



He would probably need to get a court order to depose JJ again, and "um, I forgot to ask any useful questions last time" might not be a good enough reason for HHJP.
JB is stating he was unaware any photos existed until after he took JJ's deposition. If true, he would have cause to have a "re-do", yes? I guess I'm amazed JB has no logical thinking skills. If information comes to light after a depo, I would think HHJP would let it slide. I think the next thing we are going to see is JB seeking a court order to depose JJ AGAIN. My call is we see something this week. JMO. UGH!
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