AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #3 - Page 26

LFlorida · #**626** 01-09-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burbqueen

Morning folks!!!!! The baby is having a disco party in my belly so I'm up early.

Can someone help me understand the whole private adoption angle? Why in the world are they jumping thru hoops to circumvent the law in order to get these kids? It seems to me there are plenty of ladies out there who have deadbeat baby daddies that for a little cash would be happy to sign over parental rights. A lot of the deadbeats don't even want to admit they even got the chick pregnant in the first place!

So I guess I'm needing to know how and where they find these ladies? I know they use the Internet, but is there a type that they look for or a specific race? If lm didn't want to give Gabriel away then why couldn't the smiths find another kid? It just doesn't seem that hard. Why go thru all this mess?

There are plenty of kids out there dying to find a loving home. I know the smiths probaby can't adopt legally, but for some cash I would think there would be a lot of ladies wanting an out.

Guess again. <sorry, not meaning to be snarky> Caucasian infants available for adoption are few and far between.

not_my_kids · #**627** 01-09-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salem

~snip~ Tammi Smith also explained a post on her Facebook page, where she asked people to pray for Elizabeth because the mother had found 'undercover' help in Texas to change her's and Gabriel's identities. Smith took Elizabeth's comments to mean that she had found a women's shelter that provided "extra" and illegal services. ~end snip~

http://www.kpho.com/news/22190418/detail.html

TPS's statements here don't match anything she said on NG tonight. I thought this message was all about letting Logan know the Smiths were no longer interested in adopting Gabriel????

Another thought: Do we know if LE have confiscated EJ's computer and gone through it?

Has anyone looked for Women's Shelters in San Antonio or Victoria?

Salem

I do not understand the extra and illegal statement and I have fired off a letter asking if that is their quote or hers. In most states that assistance to disappear is offered through the dam prosecutors office and is not, let me repeat, is not illegal...
IMO, Tammi thinks she is speaking martyr...the people that matter know what she's trying to say. She makes me sick.

burbqueen · #**628** 01-09-2010, 09:00 AM

Oh ok, so they are after only white babies??? It just seems that if you really want to help children then it shouldn't matter what race the kid is. Also, I know plenty of young white girls that are stuck and would consider giving up thir baby. I actually have a friend thinking of doing this now.

If one mother has issues then just give up and move on. It just seems a bit obsessive and weird. Like child collecting or design a baby.

not_my_kids · #**629** 01-09-2010, 09:01 AM

We have heard that Janet Morris house was searched in Nashville. Nothing about the agency being searched. I don't like that. Maybe they had enough for a warrant for the home, but not for the office and the records and such.
That makes me nervous, since if there was anything, it has surely disappeared by now.

BeanE · #**630** 01-09-2010, 09:49 AM

On Tammi's 'underground help' posting and statements, I think the changes we're seeing in her explanations are because she has, in the past 24 hours or so, begun to realize that LE, some reporters/interviewers, and many members of the public, are not going to accept her exaggerations, speculations, wishful thinking, covering for herself, etc, as fact. I think she is learning that when questions are asked, people are looking for *facts*, and are simply not interested in her fabrications and exaggerations, that her agenda is not the agenda of others, and certainly not the agenda of Gabriel.

With that in mind, she said (putting it together from multiple articles, videos, and NG) that Eliz said the word 'underground' once, and that she (Tammi) interpreted that to mean a women's shelter/domestic violence shelter. So the fact nugget we can get from this is that Eliz said 'underground' once.

Tammi said Eliz was talking about 'running', and something about 'identities'. The fact nugget I *think* we can get from this, or at least the maximum I'm willing to rely on, is that Eliz said something about going on the run, possibly getting new identities for herself *or* herself and Gabriel, and that these identities might come from an 'underground' or illegal source.

Since we see that Tammi is prone to spewing self-opinion and speculation as fact, I think it may be true that Eliz said something about going on the run, and that Eliz threw out something like 'maybe I could get a new identity'. (She did buy the bus ticket in a fake name (Elizabeth Jones), and she was on the run).

I'm tossing everything else Tammi said about this, and I'm going to hope as reality dawns on her further over the next day or two, that she will begin thinking about what facts she actually knows, and saying only those. (Actually I hope she'll just stfu because she's damaging the determination of wth happened to Gabriel - the *only* thing we want to know!!!)

I think this LE dept is smart, very smart. And I think they saw Tammi for what she is, and came up with the strategy of naming the Smiths as POIs in order to force them to quit playing self-centered games and cut to the facts that may actually help find Gabriel (the #1 thing they want right now!!!).

I will be praying today that Tammi and Jack will wake this morning and get slapped on the forehead with a "It's about Gabriel" stick, and go back to LE, and give the facts with *no* frills. (and that they'll then stfu.)

BeanE · #**631** 01-09-2010, 10:08 AM

Something I want to point out. In the very first phone interview that Tammi did with that news station, she stated that Eliz did not know about the custody hearing on Dec 28, that that's why Eliz didn't show for it, and I believe she said that if Eliz had known she'd definitely have been there.

Now (as of yesterday) Tammi is saying that not only did Eliz know, but that she (Tammi) knew, and that she (Tammi) had two people call Eliz and tell her, along with telling her herself, that she (Eliz) should go to the custody hearing.

The truth and Ms. Tammi are strangers... but, like I said, it appears that she is starting to come clean. Likely at the urging of LE with some words about obstructing investigation/justice charges.

Nandee63 · #**632** 01-09-2010, 10:09 AM

[quote=BeanE;4656636]On Tammi's 'underground help' posting and statements, I think the changes we're seeing in her explanations are because she has, in the past 24 hours or so, begun to realize that LE, some reporters/interviewers, and many members of the public, are not going to accept her exaggerations, speculations, wishful thinking, covering for herself, etc, as fact. I think she is learning that when questions are asked, people are looking for *facts*, and are simply not interested in her fabrications and exaggerations, that her agenda is not the agenda of others, and certainly not the agenda of Gabriel.

(respectfully snipped)

Ms. Tammi must think the general public, LE, reporters, etc. are idiots. Since when is "running" to a women's shelter considered "underground". Any time I think of a women's shelter, I think "safe-haven". She is back-stepping and realizing that her feet are securely planted in p-o-o-p! JMO...

I have had some experience with shelters on the professional side and I have never known any of them to provide "illegal" services.

STEADFAST · #**633** 01-09-2010, 10:26 AM

I'm really afraid that, although the Smiths may believe this is a story about adoptions, it's going to turn out to be a story about a "spiteful b#tch."

not_my_kids · #**634** 01-09-2010, 10:32 AM

I do a lot of work with our underground railroad system, but it is not illegal. It is condoned by the prosecutor's office. Yes, we help woman take children away from their fathers, we help provide new identities and help with cash, food, shelter, clothes, transport, counseling. It is legal, and yet, by its very nature, it is underground. These are men with past documented history of abuse, however. Not the "he came home from the bar once and hit me" abuse. Real, she will die if her abuser finds her abuse.
For TPS to insinuate that this "group" was a part of that network is making me sick. Does it exist, yes. Do people like EJ have the required proofs and documents to get into that network, no. In a nutshell, if there was a network, it was a brokering network, not a safe haven/escape network.

BeanE · #**635** 01-09-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEADFAST

I'm really afraid that, although the Smiths may believe this is a story about adoptions, it's going to turn out to be a story about a "spiteful b#tch."

Agree. I'm seriously starting to think that Eliz really was reading up on the Caylee Anthony case.

STEADFAST · #**636** 01-09-2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanE

Agree. I'm seriously starting to think that Eliz really was reading up on the Caylee Anthony case.

The Smiths are putting themselves out there so much and feeding the media their shifting stories, that we all start forgetting that EJ was probably not focused at all on finding a good home for Gabriel but was most likely focused on controlling and punishing Logan. Yes, she used the Smiths (and Gabriel) to manipulate Logan and probably took their money to finance her kidnapping, but when Logan didn't sign the papers when the Smiths relayed the threat to him, I think EJ decided to punish him in the worst way she could think of.

I hope I'm wrong, though, and this is the rare case that I have some hope for a good outcome. But I just don't see EJ going to all this trouble to make sure Gabriel is safe, since she showed so little maternal instincts towards him before.

CateH · #**637** 01-09-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFlorida

Guess again. <sorry, not meaning to be snarky> Caucasian infants available for adoption are few and far between.

I guess "few and far between" is relative. We have adopted two Caucasian infants, both at birth, in the last 5 years. For both adoptions we were only on the waiting list for 1 month before we were chosen to parent. (I realize that our waits were shorter than the average, though.) I know a lot of people that have successfully adopted (Caucasian infants) domestically in the last 5 years. I put off adopting for so long because I was operating under the misconception that it was almost impossible to adopt any infant in the US, much less a Caucasian infant. We were open to any ethnicity, but it just so happened that we were chosen to parent CC infants both times.

not_my_kids · #**638** 01-09-2010, 10:59 AM

At this point, EJ is in it up to her ears. She doesn't care one whit about Gabe, only about making sure she doesn't go to jail for longer. She knows and knew from the start that whatever she did was illegal. Chances are she won't talk. Whatever is found will by found through the Smith's slip ups, so no, they don't need to shut up or go away. They are the only shot LE has right now, other than what they may find by dumb luck. EJ will not talk, she knows that even her texted confession is useless. Unless the Smith's keep talking, this will fast become a cold case and 15 years down the road, we will still be wondering what happened to baby Gabe.
Complete MOO.

not_my_kids · #**639** 01-09-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CateH

I guess "few and far between" is relative. We have adopted two Caucasian infants, both at birth, in the last 5 years. For both adoptions we were only on the waiting list for 1 month before we were chosen to parent. (I realize that our waits were shorter than the average, though.) I know a lot of people that have successfully adopted (Caucasian infants) domestically in the last 5 years. I put off adopting for so long because I was operating under the misconception that it was almost impossible to adopt any infant in the US, much less a Caucasian infant. We were open to any ethnicity, but it just so happened that we were chosen to parent CC infants both times.

I agree with you. It's totally relative. NY and PA have more Caucasian children than any other race available. I think it depends on where you are.

not_my_kids · #**640** 01-09-2010, 11:04 AM

I have some free time today, I have some transcription that I need to do, so if there are any other smith interviews that anyone wants transcribed, let me know. Just give me the link and I'll transcribe.
The older kids are going sledding, I get to stay home with the baby, hooray.

passionflower · #**641** 01-09-2010, 11:06 AM

4 states are now involved..........and EJ and the Smith's think they will get away with what they have done? NOT!!!

CCup · #**642** 01-09-2010, 11:20 AM

All this underground adoption ring stuff just keeps making me think "Lifetime Movie."

Taminator · #**643** 01-09-2010, 11:27 AM

These people (the Smiths) are crazy, IMHO. Who in their right mind has a smile on their face when a little innocent baby is missing? They claim they love this child (and as we know, their love "don't come easy"), but everything about their body language and in their voices are the complete opposite of worry. Just because you can't adopt this baby, doesn't automatically shut off the fountain of love and desperation and worry. They are involved, that's my opinion. If they aren't, then they are seriously in need of some help. Maybe their love "don't come easy", but shutting off that love seems to come easy. Either way, I'm disgusted by these people.

Taminator · #**644** 01-09-2010, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCup

All this underground adoption ring stuff just keeps making me think "Lifetime Movie."

OMG, I was thinking the same thing yesterday!! Wasn't there some Lifetime "based on a true story" movie with Mary Tyler Moore as some blackmarket baby madam?

Prof · #**645** 01-09-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DairyGirl

Whether or not a man is on a childs birth certificate, they have legal rights to contest an adoption. In order for a child to be released to adoption the parents must give up their parental rights. If the father is unknown, then there must be a reasonable search for him. Otherwise a couple can go ahead an adopt a child and the birth father can show un, even years later, and contest the adoption and possibly get custody of the child.

Yes, and just to be clear I was simply answering a poster's question along another thread of thought ---explaininiig why I was under the assumption that LM is on the BC

Thank you, as your point IMO highlights the hope for the bio father of JS and TS adopted daughter though, if in fact they took her from TN to AZ to be able to adopt her (as bio father claims)!

BeanE · #**646** 01-09-2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEADFAST

The Smiths are putting themselves out there so much and feeding the media their shifting stories, that we all start forgetting that EJ was probably not focused at all on finding a good home for Gabriel but was most likely focused on controlling and punishing Logan. Yes, she used the Smiths (and Gabriel) to manipulate Logan and probably took their money to finance her kidnapping, but when Logan didn't sign the papers when the Smiths relayed the threat to him, I think EJ decided to punish him in the worst way she could think of.

I hope I'm wrong, though, and this is the rare case that I have some hope for a good outcome. But I just don't see EJ going to all this trouble to make sure Gabriel is safe, since she showed so little maternal instincts towards him before.

BBM

Exactly. Eliz had/has no feeling whatever for Gabriel. Her raw interview is completely devoid of any concern for him whatever, and her previous actions show neither concern nor regard for him. He's an object to her to be used as a pawn, a weapon, against Logan.

not_my_kids · #**647** 01-09-2010, 11:45 AM

Who Must Consent to an Adoption
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 8-106(A), (C)
The court shall not grant an adoption of a child unless consent to adopt has been obtained and filed with the court from the following:
The birth or adoptive mother
The father, if he:
Was married to the mother at the time of conception
Is the adoptive father
Has otherwise established paternity
Any guardian of the child or agency that has been given the child to place for adoption.
http://laws.adoption.com/statutes/arizona-laws,3.html

How Consent Must Be Executed
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 8-107(A)
All consents to adoption shall be in writing and signed by the person giving the consent and witnessed by 2 or more credible witnesses who are at least age 18 and who subscribe their names in the presence of the person giving the consent or shall be acknowledged by the person giving consent before a notary public.

The consent shall designate either of the following:

An agency or the division as authorized by the party giving the consent to place the child for adoption
The particular person or persons authorized to adopt the child by the person giving the consent
A consent other than to any agency or the division that does not designate a particular person or persons, or that purports to permit a third person to locate or nominate an adoptive parent, is invalid.
http://laws.adoption.com/statutes/arizona-laws,3.html

Required Information
Rev. Stat. § 8-106.01(B)

The notice of a claim of paternity may be filed before the birth of the child but shall be filed within 30 days after the birth of the child. The notice of a claim of paternity shall be signed by the putative father and shall include his name and address, the name and last known address of the birth mother, and either the birth date of the child or the probable month and year of the expected birth of the child. The putative father who files a notice of a claim of paternity under this section shall notify the Registrar of Vital Statistics of any change of his address.
http://laws.adoption.com/statutes/arizona-laws,5.html

Use of Intermediaries/Facilitators
Citation: Rev. Stat. §§ 8-130; 8-114; 8-134

Except as provided below, a person shall not do any of the following unless the person is employed or engaged by and acting on behalf of a licensed adoption agency:
Solicit or accept employment or engagement, for compensation, by or on behalf of a parent or guardian for assistance in the placement of a child for adoption.
Solicit or accept employment or engagement, for compensation, by or on behalf of any person to locate or obtain a child for adoption.
An attorney licensed to practice law in this State may assist and participate in direct placement adoptions and may receive compensation to the extent the court finds reasonable if the person granting consent to the adoption has chosen a specific adopting parent without prior involvement of the attorney or if the choice is made only from among persons currently certified by the court as acceptable to adopt children.
An attorney may be paid for the attorney's services in connection with the adoption only the amount the court approves as being reasonable and necessary.
http://laws.adoption.com/statutes/arizona-laws,8.html

Pertinent or may become pertinent AZ adoption statues. For reference.

Kamille · #**648** 01-09-2010, 11:48 AM

I can understand why the FBI didn't want that Nashville connection to get out there. I have to believe that JM and her partner LV are in this up to their eyeballs. IMO The only way to find Gabriel is to figure out what those two have been up to in the past 6 weeks. I'm sure they would have preferred to do it without either of them being the wiser.

Here is a site from 2009 that lists both of them at different locations of "The Adoption Place". Note that JM is now listed as Nashville.

They were either partners or LV was the owner of the Antioch location/house.

http://www.onetruegift.com/home-study-providers/tn

burbqueen · #**649** 01-09-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CateH

I guess "few and far between" is relative. We have adopted two Caucasian infants, both at birth, in the last 5 years. For both adoptions we were only on the waiting list for 1 month before we were chosen to parent. (I realize that our waits were shorter than the average, though.) I know a lot of people that have successfully adopted (Caucasian infants) domestically in the last 5 years. I put off adopting for so long because I was operating under the misconception that it was almost impossible to adopt any infant in the US, much less a Caucasian infant. We were open to any ethnicity, but it just so happened that we were chosen to parent CC infants both times.

I agree totally. I know in Texas there are plenty of Caucasian children in foster care and in the private adoption sector. Same for Iowa and Utah. These women and their motivation just baffles me. I just don't get the whole falling on the sword mentality for unfit mothers or parents. I know there are people with fertility issues who can't have kids but since ts has natural kids why the drive to adopt?

It reminds me of the stories of the old orphanages in th 40's and 50's where they would steal kids and sell them to the rich. Joan crowfard got her adopted kids that way. The wrestler Rick flair was also a blackmarket baby.

Reiyn · #**650** 01-09-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefly

I have to say I saw only bits and piece of the 5 pm and 7 pm feed of NG and now I am finally watching it now at 10. If anyone has been pulling out their hair out of frustration.....I am half bald with you now!!!!

argghghghg!!! That TS!!! Is Logan on her Facebook to have actually had the chance to see that note about praying for EJ and the baby. Man, she sure fumbled around when confronted with that "underground" comment. I don't think she knew she was going to be confronted with this FB post. What she said in reply is gibberish. I need to go back and review her EXACT words.

No, Logan is not on her Facebook and he made his recently I believe late December but cannot be for certain as I don't remember exactly. I'm from Scottsdale, AZ. He's a friend of mine and I just have to say... if he knew about everyone on here trying so hard to figure out this terrible situation he would really appreciate it, as do I. He deserves Gabriel back and I hope this will happen as soon as possible. And just for the record... I do not trust the Smiths as you all have said, there is certainly something fishy going on with them and this entire situation.