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Old 03-22-2010, 05:47 PM
Cubby Cubby is offline
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IL - Debbie Fijan, age 10, abducted and murdered in DuPage County, Feb 1966 - #2

Please continue here.

Link to thread 1:
Debbie Fijan age 10 abducted and murdered Feb 1966 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


ETA: Loren F. Schofield has never been officially cleared as the primary suspect in this case. According to MSM and local history research, the prime suspects father was in local politics at the time and supplied the county jail with fresh eggs from his farm. The family history went back to the early settlers in a tight then farming community on what was then the rural outskirts of suburban Chicago.

Both the primary suspect and his wife admit to destroying evidence in this case, pornography left in his desk which LS later returned to the school to burnt in the schools incinerator and sometime later his wife admitted to LE she burnt his clothing, presumably the clothing he wore the day Debbie was murdered.

Debbies body was found within view of the primary suspects fathers farm.

DuPage County added this case to their cold case unit after reviewing unsolved cases they deemed solvable.

What has changed since 1966 and how can we at Websleuths help bring justice to this young child and her family who have been waiting almost a half century for Justice.

Much much more in thread one. Worth reading both threads in this cold case awaiting justice after 45 years.

If you have any information that may assist police with this case, please contact the DuPage County Sheriffís office 630-407-2400.


Those interested in Justice for Debbie Fijan, please join us for the discussion on Debbies unsolved case. Someone knows, and the answers are still out there for Justice for Debbie.

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Old 03-22-2010, 06:06 PM
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I was just thinking......

Let's not forget there is that sticky at the top of the cold case forum regarding NBC's Dateline looking for stories.
Attention Websleuthers. Nbc's Dateline Is Looking For Leads - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Debbies case might make for a fantastic dateline story. Will have to give this some thought.... and of course some feedback from Debbies family. And it too would depend on how willing DuPage would be to work with NBC's dateline or a similiar show.
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:22 PM
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Interestingly there is a listing for ROM at the social securty death index.


RICHARD MACEK 15 Mar 1947 Mar 1987 53963 (Waupun, Dodge, WI) (none specified)
356-40-1658 Illinois


With a March 1947 birth date, Debbies murder would have occured 1 month prior to his 19th birthday.

I looked it up because I wondered if at 18, he would have still be in HS at the time of Debbies murder, but with this DOB, if he graduated HS it would have been in 65 if he graduated with his class.
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:43 PM
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Maybe a difference in Maceks victims and Debbies case.




http://books.google.com/books?id=WW2...0macek&f=false

Page 47 in the above link Dr. Morrison talks about Kandels case (which she mistakenly refers to out of McHenry County, when it was actually in DuPage County) and refers to Maceks description of how Kandels body was found. She talks about how Macek lied his victims bodies out to appear as if they were alive.

This is the only reference I have seen to this so far.... and I don't know the position the rest of Maceks victims bodies were found, but if he laid them to appear alive, Debbie was found face down which would appear to not match the murders Macek commited in the 70's.
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:19 PM
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Later in the above link, page 48, Morrison goes on to say she never attached Macek to crimes other than the Kandel murder. It would be interesting to know if she discussed with him his earlier crimes, crimes for which he may never have been arrested.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:34 PM
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Cubby, Dateline is a great idea or 20/20 etc. Also it is a very nice gesture of you to make Debbie your avatar.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
Maybe a difference in Maceks victims and Debbies case.




http://books.google.com/books?id=WW2...0macek&f=false

Page 47 in the above link Dr. Morrison talks about Kandels case (which she mistakenly refers to out of McHenry County, when it was actually in DuPage County) and refers to Maceks description of how Kandels body was found. She talks about how Macek lied his victims bodies out to appear as if they were alive.

This is the only reference I have seen to this so far.... and I don't know the position the rest of Maceks victims bodies were found, but if he laid them to appear alive, Debbie was found face down which would appear to not match the murders Macek commited in the 70's.
This could actually fit in with the theory of progression. If Debbie were his first murder victim. we could expect to see an increase in brutality, and also the details associated with his need to blur the line between life and death. Its possible that Sally was the first victim he bit, as well. Debbie may have simply been in the wrong place at the wrong time, when the need to assault overcame Macek and he needed a victim. His "signatures" may have developed afterward.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
Later in the above link, page 48, Morrison goes on to say she never attached Macek to crimes other than the Kandel murder. It would be interesting to know if she discussed with him his earlier crimes, crimes for which he may never have been arrested.
In the book, Morrison states that she believes Macek had killed 8 women by 1976, but doesn't go into any detail whatsoever. Unfortunately, thats one of the hallmarks of the book. Teasers, but no details.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:32 PM
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Macek's arrest report from '66 might contain some useful info, such as what kind of car he was operating, if LE would ever happen to take an interest in looking......
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowangel View Post
This could actually fit in with the theory of progression. If Debbie were his first murder victim. we could expect to see an increase in brutality, and also the details associated with his need to blur the line between life and death. Its possible that Sally was the first victim he bit, as well. Debbie may have simply been in the wrong place at the wrong time, when the need to assault overcame Macek and he needed a victim. His "signatures" may have developed afterward.

Good points and I agree. Something just stood out to me about Debbie laying face down...

It is possible Debbie was his first victim and there are other victims between 1966 and 1972 which nobody knows about.

I'm just trying to tie in the reported 1968 stabbing ROM did 3 years for in Joliet... which we can't find a thing about

...and Dr. Morrisons reporting that ROMS 'troubles' began about the time of his fathers death. If that is not a disputed statement of Dr. Morrisons... I'm kind of confused on that statement if she said that, or if she said that in context with explaining how she disagreed with LE trying to find a reason why- he was abused, neglected kind of thing.... IIRC it was also in the links I posted a few posts back....) In other words what did she mean by Maceks rampage began when his father died.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowangel View Post
Macek's arrest report from '66 might contain some useful info, such as what kind of car he was operating, if LE would ever happen to take an interest in looking......
I can't think of a reason they wouldn't be interested, unless they have solid evidence someone other than ROM commited the murder -or- had already looked at and ruled ROM ( which I don't think they did, especially since it took DuPage - what 20 years to accept the fact that Milone did not murder Sally Kandel? )

Gotta Love DuPage County. (and that is the second time someone has posted that at WS today. I wasn't the first... )
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:50 PM
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Good points and I agree. Something just stood out to me about Debbie laying face down...

It is possible Debbie was his first victim and there are other victims between 1966 and 1972 which nobody knows about.

I'm just trying to tie in the reported 1968 stabbing ROM did 3 years for in Joliet... which we can't find a thing about

...and Dr. Morrisons reporting that ROMS 'troubles' began about the time of his fathers death. If that is not a disputed statement of Dr. Morrisons... I'm kind of confused on that statement if she said that, or if she said that in context with explaining how she disagreed with LE trying to find a reason why- he was abused, neglected kind of thing.... IIRC it was also in the links I posted a few posts back....) In other words what did she mean by Maceks rampage began when his father died.
Ive read the book, and I still can't sort out the contradictions. Macek started getting in trouble with the law in grade school, so I'm not sure what his father's death was supposed to mean to him...Unless she means to say his level of violence escalated afterward.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:50 PM
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This is probably completely wishful thinking but it would be really nice if both Morrison and Tomaselli joined us here at WS to discuss this..... Even for a question and answer only thread kind of thing. We could set up a whole thread just for questions and answers for and from the two of them.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:52 PM
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Maybe the contradictions are a science thing?
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:59 PM
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I'd just like to be able to create a fairly realistic timeline for ROM. I think it would give any suggestion to the media about doing a story a lot more weight.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:50 PM
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On the first thread I saw that shadowangel asked how come it took the grand jury so long to make a decision. I hope this helps a bit.

In an article from the Chicago Tribune (March 19, 1966) IL state police lab tech stated that the fibers from Debbie's boots did not match the fibers from the mat in LS's car... they were "entirely different".

This was during the preliminary hearing. Hopf called on seven witnesses on Friday, March 18th and planned to call three more witnesses when the hearing continued on Monday the 21st.

The Grand Jury was on April 25th and a decision was made farily quickly. I can't find the article right now but a decision was made within a day or two.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:57 PM
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Delta Democrat Times (Greenville, Mississippi) Nov. 24, 1977


The majority of this article was stuff that we have already heard/read before but here are few more tidbits.

RM dubbed the "Bite Mark Murderer". I had never heard that exact term before.

RM was implicated in nine slayings within five years.

McHenry County State's Atty William Cowlin said that all of his victims were sexually attacked. All those biten were dead before they were bit.

RM, 5'4", 200 lbs, born in Chicago, finished 11th grade. Worked as a truck driver, at a tool & dye company and cook at several resturants. One of the resturants he worked at was across the street from a donut shop that Lossman worked at.

Sheriff Lt George Hendle, investigated RM for 3 1/2 yrs. He states that RM was a "real cool individual" and that he showed no emotion. RM wanted to get back to the Hospital in WI to see what went wrong and what makes him tick. He said that there was definitely something wrong with him and he would like to find out. Hendle said RM liked to be in the limelight and that if RM was to be released he would go back and do the same thing. Hendle said the "We've had the most mass murders of any county in the state".

Sheriff Arthur Tyrrell said most of the mass murders were from the Chicago area. He stated that three men convicted of homicides in McHenry county since 1970 were involved in a total of 30 homicides.

Hendle said RM "is in a class all of his own" and "with Ritchie, it's just a hit and miss. He see's somebody, makes the grab, and that's it."

I sure wish they would have elaborated a bit more here! Like what nine slayings was RM implicated in (we know most of them) and who these three men are that were involved in 30 homicides. I hate how vague these articles are sometimes.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:48 AM
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I just wish that we had more insight on ROM than from Dr Morrison. I am just not really sure I trust her account especially when she was so wishy washy when asked to back up some of her claims such as having interviewed so many Serial killers. i just do not believe she interviewed 60! Anyway if there were fibers on her boots that did not match LS floor mats I wander if they could test fibers from mats of the white car ROM drove to see if they are similar. I know hat is a long shot but maybe that particular car used only a certain mat. I know we are sure ROM had the white car later on byut has anyone been able to pinpoint a date that he acquired it? Again good job everyone!! Yall have worked very diligently and seem to have done more on this case in a month then the investigators have done in 44 years!
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:40 AM
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I'd just like to be able to create a fairly realistic timeline for ROM. I think it would give any suggestion to the media about doing a story a lot more weight.
I agree. We have ROM's SS number from the SSDI but I don't think online background checks go back to the 60's and 70's.

Maybe Tomaselli has a timeline. Maybe he investigated ROM for earlier crimes in WI and looked at his IL background?
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:52 AM
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I just wish that we had more insight on ROM than from Dr Morrison. I am just not really sure I trust her account especially when she was so wishy washy when asked to back up some of her claims such as having interviewed so many Serial killers. i just do not believe she interviewed 60! Anyway if there were fibers on her boots that did not match LS floor mats I wander if they could test fibers from mats of the white car ROM drove to see if they are similar. I know hat is a long shot but maybe that particular car used only a certain mat. I know we are sure ROM had the white car later on byut has anyone been able to pinpoint a date that he acquired it? Again good job everyone!! Yall have worked very diligently and seem to have done more on this case in a month then the investigators have done in 44 years!
Thank you. We have seemed to uncover some good possibilities.

Keep in mind Morrisons research was always from a scientific standpoint; not a standpoint to find, uncover or solve any crime. She may have some helpful information she wouldn't realize was helpful because no one (as far as we know) ever considered the possibility ROM might be responsible for Debbies murder. We don't know what Morrison knows about ROMs earlier years.

Sadly, I think the fibers on the floor mats from ROMS car is a long shot. We don't know if ROM was driving that same car 6 years earlier in 66.
We don't know if ROM was driving that same car when he commited any crimes other than the murder of Sally Kandel. If he was, we don't know if LE in IL or WI happen to have fiber samples in evidence for crimes that were solved a long long time ago, and a perp who has been deceased for more than 20 years. (what a depressing thought...)

I HOPE WI might still have something.... more of ROMs solved crimes were in WI. Maybe they still have evidence in the event they have other unsolved crimes that could never be matched to ROM?
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:04 AM
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We know Tomaselli and Morrison are still around, I wonder if Cowlin (McHenry States atty is still around) or Sheriff Lt George Hendle (WI?). A lot of the players from LE in DuPage for Debbies case are long gone as her case is 44 years old.... Maybe some from the 70's are still around.

Even if we sent them the same list of questions, perhaps we can get some answers or one or all might be interested in joining WS and possibly having a question anwer thread solely for them.... ( would be easier for them than to have to read through all the discussion on the general discussion thread. I don't think we could get a seperate forum, but we could get a seperate thread. ) Shadow, if they have any interest, we could always make that offer.

Let's discuss the questions we would like to present to the key players who knew ROM and might be able to help sort this out.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:04 AM
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Ya, I went there' (Isn't that what Hannah Montana says? lol...)

Here is a link to a case non related to Debbies, but here in DuPage county for a man who has been missing for 3 years, John Spira from St. Charles, but missing from West Chicago ( not far from where Debbie was murdered, only a 5 min drive or so....)

This expresses my frustration as well as others on just how difficult it can be to communicate with DuPage county as a concerned citizen.

Here is the link to the individual post if you care to read it.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IL IL-John Spira missing since Feb 23- St. Charles Illinois
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:05 PM
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It irks me when a member of law enforcement or the courts makes a statement (in regard to Macek) like "all of his victims were sexually assaulted..." They have no idea who all of his victims were, and even admit it. "All of his known victims...." works a lot better. Which in Macek's case doesn't appear to be true, as Nancy Lossman's little daughter wasn't reported to have been sexually assaulted. Strangely, it doesn't appear he was charged or convicted for her death, either.

I'm shifting gears back to LS for a while...Not good to allow myself to get tunnel vision.

Without dissecting the guy's whole family tree, I'm trying to find out if LS had any family ties to a Leonard C Schofield, who was from Chicago. He was 49 in 1934.
I'm still wondering about that comment in the interview, events from his (LS's) "past life". I found LCS while digging in the archives...Not a nice guy. If anyone knows how to work Ancestry.com or one of those nifty sites, please take a look.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:52 PM
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I think Abbey5 and rpiper both have ancestry memberships Shadow. Hopefully they can do some research into the LCS you refer to in your above post.

As for the tunnel vision, I agree. I would like to comment however, that ROM not being charged with Nancy Lossman's daughters murder was part of a plea deal. ROM plead guilty to Nancy's murder and part of the deal was he would not be charged with her daughters murder.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:58 PM
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I think Abbey5 and rpiper both have ancestry memberships Shadow. Hopefully they can do some research into the LCS you refer to in your above post.

As for the tunnel vision, I agree. I would like to comment however, that ROM not being charged with Nancy Lossman's daughters murder was part of a plea deal. ROM plead guilty to Nancy's murder and part of the deal was he would not be charged with her daughters murder.
Thanks for clarifying about Nancy's daughter.

I keep coming back to that statement LS made. What, in a person's "past life", could make them state to the authorities that he or she may have committed murder? Having been close to someone that was murdered? Having been close to someone who themselves committed a murder? Committing the act themselves?
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IL IL - DuPage/Wayne Township - Infant Male, April 1966 Cubby The Unidentified 5 10-31-2010 05:06 AM
IL IL - Debbie Fijan, age 10, abducted and murdered in DuPage County, Feb 1966 - #1 rpipergirl Cold Cases 510 03-22-2010 05:46 PM


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