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Alcala and the Unidentified Can you help to identify any of these people?


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  #26  
Old 04-07-2010, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by punklove View Post
I was looking at the xxl photo of her on the nancy grace site, and noticed this:



http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress...0/03/00581.jpg

Click on the cnn link and look at her photo.. I wonder if thats a scar? It obviously slants downward so it seemingly could be called an abdominal scar? In the photo you can see the bruises more clearly, her right arm looks a little swollen and bruised around the elbow, both hands seem bruises, and directly above and below and above her knees.

Am I looking too hard or some someone else see it too?
PL, I see a bruise running horizontal on the side of her left knee. It's much like the one in the posed photograph of the helmet girls leg in that horrid position.

Not so sure about that being a scar that you outlined, but maybe a bruise.

I see what looks like rope burn around her torso. It's real red. Fresh. It's above her navel and then another below it as if she was tied that way.

I also see on the inside of her left wrist what I think is a huge black and blue. That maybe I am imagining or it's a shadow?

Pink Panther brought up a good point about those curtains. You can see a small rip where light comes through. Now I am thinking this is the location he took the woman's picture outside between the two funky trees. The woman withthe wild print shirt. Who I still think is a guy actually.

This looks to be a chick's place. It's decorated like a woman's I think. Maybe a rental?

On the lower right hand I see exactly what you mean, but I think it looks more like plastic. I also see something plasticy on the left hand sideof the picture. Lord only know what that is.

The foil? On the table? Did people smoke heroin back then? Or maybe cooked up on tin foil? Maybe hash? Then again you'd have a hash pipe I guess. From this photo I don't see any tracks onn this poor lady. From all his other pictures everyone has HUGE PUPILS so that'd rule out the heroin.

That note in the background though I think is key. I'm looking at it through a magnifying glass like a nutter. I can't read it. If anyone can zero in on that maybe we'd have a clue. I want this poor girl to be alive. Alive and well.
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  #27  
Old 04-07-2010, 12:51 AM
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Could that be a hash pipe or houka on the table behind her. The apartment is feminine but I am wondering if it is his. The bookcase behind her has absolutely no books or nic nacks as if someone just moved in. Alcala must have had several apartments since he was in and out of prison several times. Are those red panties beside the figurine? The aluminum foil could be related to hashish, you think?
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  #28  
Old 04-07-2010, 01:16 AM
reasypeasy reasypeasy is offline
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The aluminium foil could be related to hashish, but to my eyes it looks an awful lot of foil for that, unless he was seriously entertaining huge numpers of people. Back before little ziploc bags became so common, it was ordinary to buy marijuana as a "stick", which was basically one or two dried branches or twigs with their leaves and buds, wrapped up tight in foil.
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  #29  
Old 04-07-2010, 02:32 AM
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I see what looks like it could be an under-bite, but could also be an angry facial expression. Almost like she was grinding her teeth. And I agree that it looks like she was being made to dance.
Definitely doesn't look like the expression of someone who is having a great time.
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  #30  
Old 04-07-2010, 02:47 AM
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PL, I see a bruise running horizontal on the side of her left knee.
The area the arrow is pointing to?


I noticed that area was darker than the surrounding areas but couldn't decide if it was a bruise or the shadow of her arm. Not entirely sure her arm would cast a shadow there though.
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  #31  
Old 04-07-2010, 02:55 AM
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I've been looking at her waist and I do see some sort of discoloration/redness.


I used the "negative" function on my software and it convinced me there really is something to see there.
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  #32  
Old 04-07-2010, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by reasypeasy View Post
The aluminium foil could be related to hashish, but to my eyes it looks an awful lot of foil for that, unless he was seriously entertaining huge numpers of people. Back before little ziploc bags became so common, it was ordinary to buy marijuana as a "stick", which was basically one or two dried branches or twigs with their leaves and buds, wrapped up tight in foil.
Thai stick. I haven't heard of that in a billion years.

Maybe it's not even tinfoil we're seeing, but a candle holder or something? If he was smoking heroin it'd be flat. If it was hash he'd make a lil pipe? In all honesty I never smoked so I'm guessing.

Jess, that's it. I meant the right leg. I'm sorry.

Redbird was asking about the panites. I thought it was another doll. That wouldn't go with the decor.

Jess, you're right she doesn't look none too happy. She's probably terrorized. I'm a little younger than all the people in these photographs. I recall Goldie Hawn having pigtails pre pixie haircut. Did people put the hair that close to their face?
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  #33  
Old 04-07-2010, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jessunlil View Post
I've been looking at her waist and I do see some sort of discoloration/redness.


I used the "negative" function on my software and it convinced me there really is something to see there.

Great idea about the negative function. Maybe it can help with some other photos too.

As an eternal optimist I'm wondering if reddish discoloration in the waist area mightn't possibly be innocently explained if she's just gotten out of clothes that had a waistband that was a bit too tight. I get that a lot (but I'm a bit more rounded than she is). It doesn't look like a waistband the way it seems to go up in the back though. It's like a rope tied twice around

Last edited by Donjeta; 04-07-2010 at 03:32 AM.
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  #34  
Old 04-07-2010, 05:07 AM
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Great idea about the negative function. Maybe it can help with some other photos too.

As an eternal optimist I'm wondering if reddish discoloration in the waist area mightn't possibly be innocently explained if she's just gotten out of clothes that had a waistband that was a bit too tight. I get that a lot (but I'm a bit more rounded than she is). It doesn't look like a waistband the way it seems to go up in the back though. It's like a rope tied twice around
I wondered about the waistband thing too.
(happens to me as well)

Since she is in a bikini, maybe she had a towel wrapped tightly around her midsection prior to having her photo taken? Or some kind of jewelry chain/belt/type thingy?
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  #35  
Old 04-07-2010, 06:13 AM
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The marks on her body seem like the same type of marks someone gets when they are bound to a chair and struggle to get free.



The way the girl is bound above would show marks where the blonde girl has them, including the rope going higher up towards the back.



The entire photo in negative, does it look like shes bruised on her lower legs?
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  #36  
Old 04-07-2010, 08:14 AM
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Her expression makes me wonder if perhaps she has just woken up and is still a bit groggy. That would also explain why the room is so dark except for the flash or whatever light source was used for the picture, it's night time and the room lights are off and the curtains are drawn/shades down. Perhaps the red marks are from sleeping on something that was putting pressure on her. I've gotten similar marks from having my weight laying on a fold in my sheet or blanket.

Regarding the aluminum foil on the table. Perhaps it held a sandwich. I've gotten deli sandwiches that were wrapped in foil.
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  #37  
Old 04-07-2010, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Bargle View Post
Her expression makes me wonder if perhaps she has just woken up and is still a bit groggy. That would also explain why the room is so dark except for the flash or whatever light source was used for the picture, it's night time and the room lights are off and the curtains are drawn/shades down. Perhaps the red marks are from sleeping on something that was putting pressure on her. I've gotten similar marks from having my weight laying on a fold in my sheet or blanket.

Regarding the aluminum foil on the table. Perhaps it held a sandwich. I've gotten deli sandwiches that were wrapped in foil.
I could be mistaken but I think I recall reading a story where the police said that he would get the victims high with weed so she could just be stoned.
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  #38  
Old 04-07-2010, 10:13 AM
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Re: bound to a chair: That could mean she's an exotic dancer, like the two topless or naked women in the red club photos. A number of Greenwich clubs used to be (still are, for that matter) famous for that style of bondage dance. If she just got off shift, she might still be scuffed and bruised from the dancing. Or she might have done a private show for him.
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  #39  
Old 04-07-2010, 11:42 AM
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I could be mistaken but I think I recall reading a story where the police said that he would get the victims high with weed so she could just be stoned.
Also a possibility. That's why I try to not be too dogmatic about anything in the pictures. Too many possibilities.
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  #40  
Old 04-07-2010, 12:14 PM
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However she got the mark, it looks like a scratch. Think it is too light to be from being mishandled by him. The bruise on her leg looks more serious to me.
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  #41  
Old 04-07-2010, 07:46 PM
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The "bruise" on her leg is consistent with the shape of toned muscle. That is the bottom of a muscle right there - I think it is just a shadow.
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  #42  
Old 04-08-2010, 02:11 AM
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I was trying to fix it so I could see it better. It's a shame the photo hanging on the wall isn't more clear.


I agree this isn't the same apartment from the other photos, and by the holes in the shades, it looks like it might have been a bright, sunny day. Could be that he met this girl down at the pool and she let him come up to her apartment to smoke some pot or something. We may need to look for a woman who was murdered in her own apartment.
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  #43  
Old 04-08-2010, 02:18 AM
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Since the 2 bottles in the background seem to be of the same shape, size, color I was thinking they might be salt/pepper shakers. They REALLY look like salt/pepper shakers in the negative punklove posted.
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  #44  
Old 04-08-2010, 08:29 PM
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Since the 2 bottles in the background seem to be of the same shape, size, color I was thinking they might be salt/pepper shakers. They REALLY look like salt/pepper shakers in the negative punklove posted.
They'd be really large for salt/pepper shakers. Pepper mills were not common in the 70's.

I thought they looked like a pair of ceramic candleholders. The foil wrapped around the bottom of one is probably to keep the wax from falling on the furniture.
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  #45  
Old 04-08-2010, 08:40 PM
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Something I have just noticed is there is another picture of another girl that shows a bookcase that goes all the way to the ceiling, like we have in this picture. A bookcase that tall is unusual and I would tend to believe they were taken in the same apartment. It is not the same bookcase, it would have to be on an opposite wall.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...323273/97.html
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  #46  
Old 04-09-2010, 04:37 PM
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I just have to say great job to Donjeta for putting this girl as a possible for Debra Kidwell. I think they look alot like and I bet this turns out to be a match. Personally, I think that this is the abdominal scar too that is described in Debra's info. Another thing that was key for me was the way each girl wears their ponytails pulled to the front.

Question - Does LE ever let anyone know if this was a match?

On a side note, I feel so bad for these girls, especially this one, it's like she vanished into thin air. I wonder does she still have any family looking for her.
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  #47  
Old 04-09-2010, 04:47 PM
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Here is a better, uncropped pic of Debra -



Sure do wish we had just one more of Debra to compare with this girl.
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Old 04-09-2010, 06:30 PM
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this match looks soooo close, I would be so surprised if it's not.
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  #49  
Old 05-07-2010, 02:06 AM
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I sure do wish we could know if this is really Debra Kidwell. Say it is a match, would The Charley project take her case down from their site, or post and update that the case is solved? I was just thinking that might be the only way we could find out.
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  #50  
Old 05-07-2010, 10:57 AM
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I sure do wish we could know if this is really Debra Kidwell. Say it is a match, would The Charley project take her case down from their site, or post and update that the case is solved? I was just thinking that might be the only way we could find out.
I doubt it -- it would mean they know she was alive for some time after she left home, but she's still missing.
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