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  #251  
Old 08-10-2010, 02:24 PM
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The detective didn't go further into what type of scar. It could be that the autopsy just says scar and nothing more.
Thanks.

I dont think the scar was a c-section because it seems very unlikely to me that she would have a c-section scar and they said that she 'may' have given birth to at least one child. If she was pregnant long enough to have a c-section then she would have without a doubt given birth to at least one child..

It was listed as a "had a 4 - 5" surgical scar on the abdomen" - what other types of operations would cause that?
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  #252  
Old 08-10-2010, 03:22 PM
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Appendix.

Gall bladder.

Accident.

Hernia?
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  #253  
Old 08-10-2010, 03:44 PM
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Would it be worth forwarding along to washoe sheriff? Assuming they care?
I haven't had to deal with Washoe County yet, but I would suspect they wouldn't look much further than the fact that it was an Alcala photo, and that Jane Doe was murdered after Alcala was in jail.

And even if they did, where would you go with this? We don't know who the yellow-shorts girl is anyway, so it's a dead-end from the start. Unless you can come up with some sort of theory of who she was, or which killer was introduced to her by Alcala (and killed her three years later), they aren't going to spend any time on it.
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  #254  
Old 08-10-2010, 04:38 PM
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This was my initial stumbling block when I found the girl in the Alcala photos, if it was her it would only lead to another dead end.

People are loooking for the women in Alcala's photos and if anyone comes up with names i.e " oh yes thats sally X from CA" and shes missing then maybe that could help with this case? Could give a last known location and even her associates at that time?

I think the best thing to do would be get the look alike picture out there on the web for an I.D and hope that it could come back and give this Doe a name.
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  #255  
Old 08-10-2010, 04:42 PM
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It might be worth mailing it in to the LE department that's trying to identify the Alcala photos, however.
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  #256  
Old 08-10-2010, 05:01 PM
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Here is a close-up of Washoe JD's and Yellow-Shorts Girl's teeth.



IMO, while they both have protruding upper-central-incisors (8 and 9), WJD's upper-left-lateral-incisor (#10) is much more squared at the bottom. Also (although not clear), it appears that WJD's 8 and 9 are a little more askew than YSG's.

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  #257  
Old 08-10-2010, 05:09 PM
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  #258  
Old 08-13-2010, 02:41 AM
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I think I'm going to check up the personal ads in the papers for 6 months leading up to the murder. Maybe a woman looking for a summer thing.
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  #259  
Old 08-14-2010, 12:16 AM
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I think I'm going to check up the personal ads in the papers for 6 months leading up to the murder. Maybe a woman looking for a summer thing.
I think it would also be a good idea to do a search of google archives to see if any women went missing, were found dead or any women that had an attempted kidnapping within a couple hundred miles of where she was found.

Do you know how well they searched the area she was found? It was July in Nevada, at the very least she would have water with her. Bottled water wasnt all that popular then so one would assume that she had her own water container - even though it could mean nothing the container could perhaps give them something more to go on. Do you know if her clothing was on properly? From the way she was found they imply that she was shot while bending over to tie her shoe - she was found slumped in the kneeling position.. I guess what Im trying to say is that there are two options - she was killed by someone she was with that day or she was killed by a stranger.

The lack of personal effects on her person is a little strange, while I understand that you wouldnt bring much with you it seems odd that she had nothing in her pockets at all. No ID, no money..nothing. Even if I were going out and didnt want to carry a bag Id make sure to carry a few dollars with me just in case.. I keep trying to figure out why someone would kill her without (seemingly) doing anything else to her.. She apparently wasnt raped or sexually abused nor robbed so what would be the purpose in killing her? What was the persons motive?

Do you know more about where she was found - location wise? Was the area she was in secluded? Is the area she was found in the National Forrest? Did they question all the people in/around the area to see if they saw her at any point or anything odd?

After looking up some info about the
Its a 2 lane "Scenic Byway" which makes me doubt that she was there alone. She was found on a Saturday but killed on a Friday afternoon, which makes me think that she was on a road trip with someone.


http://library.byways.org/a/static_m...ntRose_map.gif

Last edited by punklove; 08-14-2010 at 12:32 AM.
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  #260  
Old 08-14-2010, 09:16 AM
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From what I can go on yes the area was searched very well. Original reports state authorities searched for possible victims. Found none.

The area is very secluded. Lake tahoe is about 8 miles away buy that whole area at evening/night (when they believe she was killed) is pitch black.

To my knowledge nothing else of hers was found. Just the clothes on her back.

What is interesting further down the mountain in the opposite direction more towards Reno there were two homicides both done at night in a fairly secluded area. They were about 2-3 years apart if memory serves and about 50 yards apart. Two people were both gunned down while they slept a woman in her car and vagrant male. Reno had it's share of murders and uid bodies in the 70s and 80s.

The only thing with her clothes was her bathing suit top was pulled down under her shirt. The detective couldn't speculate on possible sexual assault (if any).

She was found on a path with little foot traffic. Possibly it was left over from the day before because there was still snow on the ground. I figure a few inches at least because of her and her killer's foot prints still in the snow.
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  #261  
Old 08-14-2010, 10:03 AM
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From what I can go on yes the area was searched very well. Original reports state authorities searched for possible victims. Found none.

The area is very secluded. Lake tahoe is about 8 miles away buy that whole area at evening/night (when they believe she was killed) is pitch black.

To my knowledge nothing else of hers was found. Just the clothes on her back.

What is interesting further down the mountain in the opposite direction more towards Reno there were two homicides both done at night in a fairly secluded area. They were about 2-3 years apart if memory serves and about 50 yards apart. Two people were both gunned down while they slept a woman in her car and vagrant male. Reno had it's share of murders and uid bodies in the 70s and 80s.

The only thing with her clothes was her bathing suit top was pulled down under her shirt. The detective couldn't speculate on possible sexual assault (if any).

She was found on a path with little foot traffic. Possibly it was left over from the day before because there was still snow on the ground. I figure a few inches at least because of her and her killer's foot prints still in the snow.
Hope youd ont mind me asking questions.

Since you know the area do you think that it would be the sort of place that someone would go on a hike by themselves or is it more common that you would go with someone? How many people were typically in the surrounding area at that time of year? How far down the path where she was found was the nearest road?

I dont remember reading about the footprints - do you know anything about the size of the other shoe print and were the footsteps side by side or one in front of the other?

Was the same type of gun used in the other murders?
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  #262  
Old 08-14-2010, 11:03 AM
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http://www.washoesheriff.com/MP-DUFFNER.pdf

http://www.washoesheriff.com/MP-WHITTEN.pdf


It looks like a post mortem on Duffner's bulletin. I have to correct myself they were found 400 yards from each other and two years apart.

As for a weapon I don't know.

With snow it's harder to get an accurate shoe size due to the snow meltage and print expansion

Don't worry about questions, everyone has come up with great ideas I never would have thought of on my own. Keep firing away!

Last edited by Charlie99909; 08-14-2010 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Link error
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  #263  
Old 08-14-2010, 11:11 AM
Charlie99909 Charlie99909 is offline
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As for the area she was found in, it is a hiking area. In the summer months there are a lot of people driving by going to tahoe and when I drive by there are alway people pulled over or in the parking area taking pictures. You see single people hiking as well as groups of people.
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  #264  
Old 08-14-2010, 12:59 PM
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http://www.washoesheriff.com/MP-DUFFNER.pdf

http://www.washoesheriff.com/MP-WHITTEN.pdf


It looks like a post mortem on Duffner's bulletin. I have to correct myself they were found 400 yards from each other and two years apart.

As for a weapon I don't know.

With snow it's harder to get an accurate shoe size due to the snow meltage and print expansion

Don't worry about questions, everyone has come up with great ideas I never would have thought of on my own. Keep firing away!
Thats quite the scary bit of information.. Mount Rose Highway is 24.4 miles long and two homeless people are killed within two years in that area, and were found 400 yards apart?? Is there a big homeless population there? Is it possible the unidentified woman was also homeless? She was quite underweight but Id just assumed that she was a dancer or something and thats why.

How many people live within that 25 mile area? Im attempting to find out exactly how many murders took place in the entire county in 1982 in order to get a better idea of how often murders happened - Ive been unable to find the stats for 1982 but I did find info for 2000 - 12 people were murdered.

Considering the crime rate has gotten higher one can assume there were less people murdered in 1982. Add to that the fact that the entire county is 209 square miles and the two other victims were 400 yards apart... it makes you wonder if all three murders were commited by the same person. How far away was she in relation to where the others were found?

Last edited by punklove; 08-14-2010 at 01:05 PM.
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  #265  
Old 08-14-2010, 01:24 PM
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As the crow flies, about 10 miles away. The site of the two homeless people and our uid is about 10 minutes apart by driving. Now a 25 mile radius of the area includes incline village (lake tahoe), washoe valley(the robinsons disappeared from there a few months before the uid's murder), the northern edge of Carson city and the city of Reno itself.

Now there are a lot of homes on the east side of the mountain all where the two homeless people were found.

Look at the unsolved crimes section of the washoe county website and the late 70s/ early 80s had some bizarre murders.
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  #266  
Old 08-14-2010, 03:27 PM
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The washoe website says that she was found in the sheep flats area of mount rose, referred to as the meadows. It also says that she hadnt been there long and that they thought she was European due to the teeth (as we already know) but also due to the innoculation scar. http://www.washoesheriff.com/MP-JANEDOE.pdf

Sheep flats area
http://laketahoerecreation.com/sheepflat.html

Its beautiful there. I wonder how long she was there since they say she hadnt been there long?
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  #267  
Old 08-14-2010, 04:00 PM
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You have to figure she had been than at least all night I don't think any earlier than sunset. Otherwise you risk being seen. I wonder if I could locate the original witnesses and interview them, location of uid and body position.
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  #268  
Old 08-14-2010, 04:20 PM
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http://m.trib.com/news/state-and-reg...4c0063815.html

An interesting article about the park rangers who work in the area where the uid was found. The article mentions bodies being found including hers and attacks on rangers on the hill. Rticle from 2005.
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  #269  
Old 08-14-2010, 04:21 PM
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Id worry about retraumatizing the people but otherwise I think it would be really helpful to know where is was, that site says that she was found "just over the Mount Rose Summit as you drop into the Tahoe Basin. It is a forested area in the High Sierra Navada Mountains."

Heres a video of someone on the Mount Rose Summit. Dumb question - how snowy would it have been when she was there? If there is snow on the ground why would she be wearing a shirt with no sleeves? Ive never been around mountains like that so have no clue.

They said she was found slumped over as if she was bent over to tie her shoes when someone killed her, causing her to slump forward in a kneeling position.. how/why was her bathing suit pulled down?
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  #270  
Old 08-14-2010, 04:35 PM
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Her shirt was on over her one piece suit which was pulled down, most likely for comfort.
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  #271  
Old 08-24-2010, 04:09 PM
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I added about her in the wikipedia section.

Right now I'm working on a way to really get the message out about her to the community. Maybe write in to the crimes section of the paper.
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  #272  
Old 08-27-2010, 02:12 AM
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Okay folks here it is, an overhead map of the crime scene. The red is the main trail, presuming she was found here (for now).

http://www.tahoerimtrail.org/index.p...183&Itemid=207


I'm going to get a complex list of questions for the detective and find out about body location in relation to the trail.
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  #273  
Old 08-31-2010, 10:50 AM
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Coming up out of the Truckee Meadows, the Mount Rose Highway comes up over the Carson Range of the Sierra Nevadas and summits at a beautiful alpine meadow the locals call Sheep Flats, before descending down to Incline Village on the north edge of Lake Tahoe. Sheep Flats is a favorite recreation spot for tourists and residents alike. On July 17, 1982, the body of a young woman was discovered there. She had been shot to death.

No doubt the Washoe County Sheriff’s office thought it wouldn’t be long before she was identified. She was in her late twenties, maybe thirty. The report reads, “The victim had not been there long and was clothed. She wore a bathing suit on under her clothing. She also wore a blue top, blue jeans and yellow tennis shoes . . . the victim is believe to be of European descent based upon an inoculation scar and unique dental work. Although many leads have been pursued, her identity and whereabouts prior to her death are still a mystery.”

The bulletin issued by the Sheriff’s office includes both a color photograph from the morgue and an artist’s interpretation of what she might have looked like imbued with life. Hazel eyes and sandy hair, a fair complexion, well-arched brow, the kind of forehead people used to call “intelligent.” Isn’t somebody looking for her? Was she so all alone in the world, in her blue jeans and yellow tennis shoes? Perhaps she is not just of European descent, but maybe a European tourist, her stuff left behind in a hotel room, or carried back to Europe by her killer with a story: she ran off, she married an American, she doesn’t want us anymore.




I found that on word press. The writer goes on to discuss several other UID cases from northern Nevada. In all of them there is information I have not seen on doenetwork or even the sheriff site. I wonder if they have seen some police files or know someone who has.

Anyway it was nice to read something about this Doe again. Reminds me that I'm not alone in looking for her and that she is not forgotten.
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  #274  
Old 08-31-2010, 02:36 PM
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Why do so many UID reports say that a vaccination scar on the upper left arm is European? That's where mine is -- and I was in Montana at the time. She'd have been about the same age.
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  #275  
Old 08-31-2010, 03:45 PM
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Coming up out of the Truckee Meadows, the Mount Rose Highway comes up over the Carson Range of the Sierra Nevadas and summits at a beautiful alpine meadow the locals call Sheep Flats, before descending down to Incline Village on the north edge of Lake Tahoe. Sheep Flats is a favorite recreation spot for tourists and residents alike. On July 17, 1982, the body of a young woman was discovered there. She had been shot to death.

No doubt the Washoe County Sheriff’s office thought it wouldn’t be long before she was identified. She was in her late twenties, maybe thirty. The report reads, “The victim had not been there long and was clothed. She wore a bathing suit on under her clothing. She also wore a blue top, blue jeans and yellow tennis shoes . . . the victim is believe to be of European descent based upon an inoculation scar and unique dental work. Although many leads have been pursued, her identity and whereabouts prior to her death are still a mystery.”

The bulletin issued by the Sheriff’s office includes both a color photograph from the morgue and an artist’s interpretation of what she might have looked like imbued with life. Hazel eyes and sandy hair, a fair complexion, well-arched brow, the kind of forehead people used to call “intelligent.” Isn’t somebody looking for her? Was she so all alone in the world, in her blue jeans and yellow tennis shoes? Perhaps she is not just of European descent, but maybe a European tourist, her stuff left behind in a hotel room, or carried back to Europe by her killer with a story: she ran off, she married an American, she doesn’t want us anymore.
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http://athousanddays.wordpress.com/2...-for-the-lost/
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