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  #351  
Old 03-30-2010, 01:15 PM
BeanE BeanE is offline
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Or victim of a medical condition
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  #352  
Old 03-30-2010, 01:26 PM
SMK SMK is offline
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Or victim of a medical condition
Yes, that too, or both....
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  #353  
Old 03-30-2010, 02:39 PM
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Silver~Bell Silver~Bell is offline
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Storms in that area now

I wonder if the storms in that area will be strong enough for SS's body to wash up finally, if she did drown. But I also wonder if it will ever be solved. If a body is hung up long enough (you would not believe the amount of wood that is tangled and floats below the surface in that area), or falls apart, is pulled by sea animals, etc., it may be a long time before anything is ever found.

Closure may not be possible in this case.

May she RIP. I think it was just a very horrible combination of drinking, problems, baggage, poor judgement, possibly mental confusion due to hypothermia, and tides.
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  #354  
Old 03-30-2010, 02:46 PM
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I wonder if the storms in that area will be strong enough for SS's body to wash up finally, if she did drown. But I also wonder if it will ever be solved. If a body is hung up long enough (you would not believe the amount of wood that is tangled and floats below the surface in that area), or falls apart, is pulled by sea animals, etc., it may be a long time before anything is ever found.

Closure may not be possible in this case.

May she RIP. I think it was just a very horrible combination of drinking, problems, baggage, poor judgement, possibly mental confusion due to hypothermia, and tides.
Yes, I think you are probably right, and I am driving myself crazy with wanting some "twist" to the case, that she was victimized, etc. Do not know why I am not simply taking this at face value....
All sorts of things are in the paper, and they are tragic, and you have to accept them. I do not know why I cannot seem to let this woman and her child go...........
.
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  #355  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:13 PM
floridaheather floridaheather is offline
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funny just reading what everyone else has recently posted, b/c i am back just to say that i feel pretty sure she is dead. only think that i don't feel that i can assume is that her death is accidental. i hope they find her body someday and put this to rest.
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  #356  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:21 PM
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funny just reading what everyone else has recently posted, b/c i am back just to say that i feel pretty sure she is dead. only think that i don't feel that i can assume is that her death is accidental. i hope they find her body someday and put this to rest.
I think she must be dead also. But I feel her story needs to be cleared up.

But it may never be
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  #357  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:28 PM
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ALSO, I keep thinking that her story will come together in some harmonious sense, a grand scheme design which wraps things up in some meaningful way and which gives closure and a sense of a poetic justice
But that may be part of being a bit obsessive here
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  #358  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:36 PM
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Silver~Bell Silver~Bell is offline
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Sleuthers, don't blame or question yourselves about why you want closure. It isn't that anyone wants there to have been foul play. It is that nice people don't want a crime to have been committed and go unnoticed.

I guess that is a sleuther's worst nightmare, that and the terrible fear that sleuthing services will be needed on and on, as crimes continue to happen. Wouldn't it be great if armchair sleuthing was something unneeded? But no, the criminals seem to be more and more and meaner and meaner.

And it is the nature of kindly people to wish for something tragic to be "redeemed" by having some sort of silver-lining, so lives lost are not "in vain."
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  #359  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:47 PM
Calliope Calliope is offline
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True. In addition, what upsets me is that:
1. When the story first broke, it was of a loving Mom who had vanished on a road trip with her little boy.
2. Then, all at once: Alcoholism, DUI, CPS reports come out,
3. at the same time, tragically, that little Azriel's body is found.
4. Overnight, it became "irresponsible woman with many strikes against her gets her kid drowned, too late now, nothing can be done, end of story".
5. The temptation now to let it drop, not probe further, is strong.
6. Meantime, all SS 's good is swept away
7. If she were found and evidence of being a victim of a crime, this might change.
The chances of that are diminishing by the day. Even if she is found, her body may be in no condition to determine cause of death.
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  #360  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:51 PM
Calliope Calliope is offline
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Yes, I think you are probably right, and I am driving myself crazy with wanting some "twist" to the case, that she was victimized, etc. Do not know why I am not simply taking this at face value....
All sorts of things are in the paper, and they are tragic, and you have to accept them. I do not know why I cannot seem to let this woman and her child go...........
.
I do.

Because too damn many pieces of this case simply do not add up. There is far more to this than what we've been told, and *someone* out there knows what really happened that night.
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  #361  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:53 PM
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I do.

Because too damn many pieces of this case simply do not add up. There is far more to this than what we've been told, and *someone* out there knows what really happened that night.
Thanks , it helps to know that someone else feels this way....
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  #362  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:54 PM
floridaheather floridaheather is offline
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Originally Posted by SMK View Post
True. In addition, what upsets me is that:
1. When the story first broke, it was of a loving Mom who had vanished on a road trip with her little boy.
2. Then, all at once: Alcoholism, DUI, CPS reports come out,
3. at the same time, tragically, that little Azriel's body is found.
4. Overnight, it became "irresponsible woman with many strikes against her gets her kid drowned, too late now, nothing can be done, end of story".
5. The temptation now to let it drop, not probe further, is strong.
6. Meantime, all SS 's good is swept away
7. If she were found and evidence of being a victim of a crime, this might change.
true so so true. and if b/c of these things a crime against her or her son does go w/out justice b/c of there being no way to determine cod or mod, then shame on Thurston county for giving up so soon! i honestly have the feeling abt this woman that regardless of her past she wanted a bright and happy future for herself and her son and was really trying hard to make that happen.
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  #363  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:55 PM
Calliope Calliope is offline
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I remember LE doing the sonar searches in the water around the area of the van. Does anyone know if they did the same in the area where all those items (of differing weights, sizes and buoyancy) all magically appeared on the beach at the same time in the same place?
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  #364  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:55 PM
floridaheather floridaheather is offline
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I do.

Because too damn many pieces of this case simply do not add up. There is far more to this than what we've been told, and *someone* out there knows what really happened that night.
right on; i feel the same way
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  #365  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:57 PM
Calliope Calliope is offline
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Originally Posted by floridaheather View Post
true so so true. and if b/c of these things a crime against her or her son does go w/out justice b/c of there being no way to determine cod or mod, then shame on Thurston county for giving up so soon! i honestly have the feeling abt this woman that regardless of her past she wanted a bright and happy future for herself and her son and was really trying hard to make that happen.
LE said the case was "suspicious". What made them change their minds (if they did)?
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  #366  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:04 PM
SMK SMK is offline
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Originally Posted by Silver~Bell View Post
Sleuthers, don't blame or question yourselves about why you want closure. It isn't that anyone wants there to have been foul play. It is that nice people don't want a crime to have been committed and go unnoticed.

I guess that is a sleuther's worst nightmare, that and the terrible fear that sleuthing services will be needed on and on, as crimes continue to happen. Wouldn't it be great if armchair sleuthing was something unneeded? But no, the criminals seem to be more and more and meaner and meaner.

And it is the nature of kindly people to wish for something tragic to be "redeemed" by having some sort of silver-lining, so lives lost are not "in vain."
Thanks for this, much appreciated!!
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  #367  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:05 PM
SMK SMK is offline
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Originally Posted by floridaheather View Post
true so so true. and if b/c of these things a crime against her or her son does go w/out justice b/c of there being no way to determine cod or mod, then shame on Thurston county for giving up so soon! i honestly have the feeling abt this woman that regardless of her past she wanted a bright and happy future for herself and her son and was really trying hard to make that happen.
Thanks, I feel this way, too.
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  #368  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:08 PM
floridaheather floridaheather is offline
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Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
LE said the case was "suspicious". What made them change their minds (if they did)?
when did they say that? am interested
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  #369  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:08 PM
SMK SMK is offline
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Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
LE said the case was "suspicious". What made them change their minds (if they did)?
I always felt they went from seeing this as "suspicious" to "case dismissed" due to *wine, *DUI, *CPS reports, *little Az 's body----It's as though they recoiled in anger at SS, and no longer cared......Not my place to say what is in LE's mind, just seemed that way to me, in public and media. . .
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  #370  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:10 PM
floridaheather floridaheather is offline
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Originally Posted by SMK View Post
I always felt they went from seeing this as "suspicious" to "case dismissed" due to *wine, *DUI, *CPS reports, *little Az 's body----It's as though they recoiled in anger at SS, and no longer cared......Not my place to say what is in LE's mind, just seemed that way to me, in public and media. . .
i was thinking that they would have changed their mind after Az body was found due to the fact that they put of searching and started to follow up on leads. what lead could they have if they had figured out what happened imho
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  #371  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:23 PM
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when did they say that? am interested
Mealy cautioned that investigators aren’t assuming that Smiley and Carver drowned. He said the disappearances are “very suspicious,” but they aren’t ruling out any possibilities, including that she and her son left the area on foot, or that Smiley left the area safely with her son and does not want to be found.

Read more: http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/1...#ixzz0jh3FTfPQ


The Sheriff's Office is treating the case as suspicious, but detectives have very little information to go on
Source: katu.com
http://www.katu.com/news/local/87628727.html

"Police Say Missing Mom and Son Case 'Suspicious'" http://www.comcast.net/video/-washin...e-/1442928259/

Last edited by SMK; 03-30-2010 at 04:36 PM.
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  #372  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:30 PM
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Condensed them in above post. ~SMK

Last edited by SMK; 03-30-2010 at 04:37 PM.
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  #373  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:31 PM
BeanE BeanE is offline
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Originally Posted by floridaheather View Post
when did they say that? am interested
http://www.katu.com/news/local/87628727.html

The Sheriff's Office is treating the case as suspicious, but detectives have very little information to go on, Watkins said.

Story Published: Mar 16, 2010 at 7:24 AM PDT

ETA: Darnit SMK you beat me to it

Last edited by BeanE; 03-30-2010 at 04:32 PM.
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  #374  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:38 PM
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One thing that RS said made me go hmmmm was when he said we looked for her along the highway and stopped at the rest stops on the way back. He even said it on a interview with Shep on Fox. If we are lost we just stay along on the highway. Really if I was lost I would pull off and ask directions at a gas station or the Fire Dept. Well then he didn't even go into town looking for her??? She did tell him she was stopping off because of the traffic and get something to eat. I wonder if he looked at her debit/credit transactions to see exactly where she was and at what time?

One phone call from the family or whoever could change the outcome and reopened it and steer them in another direction if thats the case.
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  #375  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:40 PM
SMK SMK is offline
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Darnit SMK you beat me to it
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