UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[Interested_But_Confused]

What has always surprised me about Suzy's car is if someone other than Suzy had left it there then why Stevenage Road? It seemed to be at the time (and probably still is) a busy residential street with plenty of people about so why would anyone choose to dump it there, especially in the middle of the day? Why not in one of the quieter side streets like nearby Eternit Walk or Millshot Close?

If it was left in Stevenage Road by someone other than Suzy that day then i think they were extremely lucky not to have been seen.

At the southern end of Stevenage Road are Craven Cottage football ground and Bishop's Park, but even those would presumably only make the road really busy on certain days and at certain times of the day. I'm not sure it is a particularly busy road, at least at the northern end where Suzy's car was parked.

I think there was another Sturgis home on Stevenage Road, close to where the car was parked? If the plan was that Suzy would show the Shorrolds Road home AND the Stevenage Road home, perhaps it was intended that they would drive to 37SR in Kipper's vehicle, and then come back to Suzy's car to show the second house. Some sightings on Stevenage Road could suggest they actually did come back later in the afternoon, although it's obviously not confirmed it was definitely Suzy who was seen. It depends if Marianna Jagoda, or the jogger coming out of the park, or any of the other potential witnesses who claim to have seen Suzy on Stevenage Road, can be trusted.

 

[WestLondoner]

What's very odd is that there doesn't ever seem to have been an official "police version" of the timings that reconciles them. It is almost impossible for her to have gone first to 123SR, parked it badly and then driven back to 37SR in someone else's car so as to be seen there by HR at 1pm. Nothing supports the idea she intended to do anything of the kind. WJ was not expecting any viewings. No such appointment was in her diary and WJ had never even met her, having dealt instead with others from Sturgis. So what persuaded the police she went straight to 37SR? Was WJ's account explained, or was it explained away, which is not the same thing?

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

What's very odd is that there doesn't ever seem to have been an official "police version" of the timings that reconciles them. It is almost impossible for her to have gone first to 123SR, parked it badly and then driven back to 37SR in someone else's car so as to be seen there by HR at 1pm. Nothing supports the idea she intended to do anything of the kind. WJ was not expecting any viewings. No such appointment was in her diary and WJ had never even met her, having dealt instead with others from Sturgis. So what persuaded the police she went straight to 37SR? Was WJ's account explained, or was it explained away, which is not the same thing?

RBBM

I previously posted this Google route which shows the trip from Sturgis to 123SR to 37SR could theoretically be done in a little over ten minutes, so it's improbable but not impossible:

654 Fulham Rd. to 37 Shorrolds Rd

www.google.com

Was it actually WJ's home, #123, that was up for sale? For some reason I thought it was a different house. I think I remember a potential sighting of a man and woman matching Suzy's description, who were seen on Stevenage Road looking up at a house.

The problem with talking about supporting evidence is that in this case, there's really no supporting evidence for anything beyond the two facts that Suzy left work, and that her car was abandoned on Stevenage Road for no obvious reason.

 

[WiseOwl]

At the southern end of Stevenage Road are Craven Cottage football ground and Bishop's Park, but even those would presumably only make the road really busy on certain days and at certain times of the day. I'm not sure it is a particularly busy road, at least at the northern end where Suzy's car was parked.

I think there was another Sturgis home on Stevenage Road, close to where the car was parked? If the plan was that Suzy would show the Shorrolds Road home AND the Stevenage Road home, perhaps it was intended that they would drive to 37SR in Kipper's vehicle, and then come back to Suzy's car to show the second house. Some sightings on Stevenage Road could suggest they actually did come back later in the afternoon, although it's obviously not confirmed it was definitely Suzy who was seen. It depends if Marianna Jagoda, or the jogger coming out of the park, or any of the other potential witnesses who claim to have seen Suzy on Stevenage Road, can be trusted.

I thought Suzy's car was parked not far from Craven Cottage? From the pictures of her car in 1986 you can see the floodlights in the background.

 

[Eastend Eagle]

What's very odd is that there doesn't ever seem to have been an official "police version" of the timings that reconciles them. It is almost impossible for her to have gone first to 123SR, parked it badly and then driven back to 37SR in someone else's car so as to be seen there by HR at 1pm. Nothing supports the idea she intended to do anything of the kind. WJ was not expecting any viewings. No such appointment was in her diary and WJ had never even met her, having dealt instead with others from Sturgis. So what persuaded the police she went straight to 37SR? Was WJ's account explained, or was it explained away, which is not the same thing?

Is it possible that Office Junior JC visited WJ that Monday morning?

 

[WiseOwl]

What's very odd is that there doesn't ever seem to have been an official "police version" of the timings that reconciles them. It is almost impossible for her to have gone first to 123SR, parked it badly and then driven back to 37SR in someone else's car so as to be seen there by HR at 1pm. Nothing supports the idea she intended to do anything of the kind. WJ was not expecting any viewings. No such appointment was in her diary and WJ had never even met her, having dealt instead with others from Sturgis. So what persuaded the police she went straight to 37SR? Was WJ's account explained, or was it explained away, which is not the same thing?

IMO the police believed Suzy went straight to 37SR simply because of the time of the appointment in her diary. Even 3 months later on Crimewatch they were still going with the Mr Kipper theory and that Suzy was abducted at Shorrolds Road.

 

[WiseOwl]

Is it possible that Office Junior JC visited WJ that Monday morning?

From AS book (page 28):

'JC told the detectives that at 9.45 he borrowed Suzy's Ford Fiesta to take a client to a house in Foskett Road, returning 20 minutes later and parking the car in Whittingstall Road.'

What reason would JC have for visiting WJ?

 

[Terryb808]

What has always surprised me about Suzy's car is if someone other than Suzy had left it there then why Stevenage Road? It seemed to be at the time (and probably still is) a busy residential street with plenty of people about so why would anyone choose to dump it there, especially in the middle of the day? Why not in one of the quieter side streets like nearby Eternit Walk or Millshot Close?

If it was left in Stevenage Road by someone other than Suzy that day then i think they were extremely lucky not to have been seen.

Another poster said they’d visited Stevenage Road on a Monday at approximately the same time WJ said she saw SJL’s car.
By coincidence it was also on the 28th of July, they said even today, it was remarkably quiet.
In this basis, back in 86 it should have been even quieter.
There’s a couple of possibilities it was chosen (that spring to mind). If DV is right, then the Temp Landlord would have known about Stevenage Road as Fulham supports used the PoW pub.
Secondly, if BW is right, then the perpetrator returned the car to Stevenage Road so it was found back in the direction she saw it coming from.
This would case doubt in BW’s mind and mislead the police.
I have to be honest, this second opinion sounds far to clever for JC if you look at his general MO.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I thought Suzy's car was parked not far from Craven Cottage? From the pictures of her car in 1986 you can see the floodlights in the background.

123 Stevenage Road is right at the top, between Langthorne Street and Kenyon Street. I'm pretty sure this is the garage Suzy's car was in front of:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[Eastend Eagle]

From AS book (page 28):

'JC told the detectives that at 9.45 he borrowed Suzy's Ford Fiesta to take a client to a house in Foskett Road, returning 20 minutes later and parking the car in Whittingstall Road.'

What reason would JC have for visiting WJ?

We only seem to have JC's word that this is what he did.
Did any of us see him do this?

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Secondly, if BW is right, then the perpetrator returned the car to Stevenage Road so it was found back in the direction she saw it coming from.

RSBM

In the Crimewatch video we see "Suzy" passing BW on FPR. Assuming the reconstruction placed them accurately, I think they passed each other in the region of Wardo Avenue. Suzy would have been heading north, away from Sturgis and *towards* Stevenage Road or Shorrolds Road. BW didn't see Suzy driving *away* from Stevenage Road if I've interpreted the reconstruction accurately:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[WiseOwl]

RSBM

In the Crimewatch video we see "Suzy" passing BW on FPR. Assuming the reconstruction placed them accurately, I think they passed each other in the region of Wardo Avenue. Suzy would have been heading north, away from Sturgis and *towards* Stevenage Road or Shorrolds Road. BW didn't see Suzy driving *away* from Stevenage Road if I've interpreted the reconstruction accurately:

View attachment 506215

View attachment 506217

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

I always believed BW's sighting of Suzy that afternoon, but now, because of the WJ/AM connection, i am beginning to doubt her now.

I am sure she was genuine in what she believed was Suzy driving with a passenger that day, but it makes no sense if the car was parked in Stevenage Road all afternoon. Of course, there is the possibility that the car was driven away at some point and returned that afternoon, but how likely is it that it was parked in exactly the same way and same spot as it had been earlier that day?

I am loathe to say it but i think BW was mistaken in the belief that it was Suzy she saw that afternoon.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I always believed BW's sighting of Suzy that afternoon, but now, because of the WJ/AM connection, i am beginning to doubt her now.

I am sure she was genuine in what she believed was Suzy driving with a passenger that day, but it makes no sense if the car was parked in Stevenage Road all afternoon. Of course, there is the possibility that the car was driven away at some point and returned that afternoon, but how likely is it that it was parked in exactly the same way and same spot as it had been earlier that day?

I am loathe to say it but i think BW was mistaken in the belief that it was Suzy she saw that afternoon.

There is the window between the taxi driver seeing Suzy's car on Stevenage Road at 2:00PM, and WJ seeing it again on her return from shopping at 3:30PM. That would allow BW to have seen it at 2:45PM. But as you say, what are the odds that it was moved and then re-parked in *exactly* the same place?

The only way I can reconcile BW's sighting is if *she* got the time wrong. If she saw Suzy at about 12:45PM, not 2:45PM, as Suzy was on the way to Stevenage Road. But that would mean Suzy already had a passenger immediately after leaving work.

I can just about fit most of the sightings into a possible, if somewhat implausible, timeline. BW has always been the outlier.

 

[WestLondoner]

RBBM

I previously posted this Google route which shows the trip from Sturgis to 123SR to 37SR could theoretically be done in a little over ten minutes, so it's improbable but not impossible

Perhaps, but WJ reckons that as she was in the bank at 12.49, the car was there from 12.40. It could be that SJL left at 12.35 rather than 12.40, but in that case she drove to 123SR (which was for sale), met whomever she met, switched cars and was gone without a trace literally seconds before WJ left, seeing no sign of anyone or any other car.

SJL also did all this despite having put 37SR in her diary, and you wonder why if she was actually going to 123SR. Why not just go there and write that in the diary? She didn't intend to conduct a viewing, and none was scheduled, so why meet someone there? Why leave her car unlocked and her purse in the door pocket?

You can crowbar the timings together to make them work, just about but not much of the rest of the picture makes sense.

 

[RichardKimble]

I know the original Crimewatch appeal aired in October, and the reconstruction was probably filmed two or three months after Suzy disappeared. I also appreciate that the footage is low quality and grainy.

But there's absolutely no immediately obvious sign of the road having been dug up recently. I wonder how close to Suzy's car the workmen really were; her car was at the northern end of a road that is about 0.6 miles long.

This screencap is from the Crimewatch video. Unless it had been completely resurfaced since Suzy disappeared, the road doesn't look like it had been dug up for a long time:

View attachment 506109

What is noticeable is the lack of pedestrians, no wonder no one saw the car being parked if this is a reflection of the day SJL disappearanced .

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Perhaps, but WJ reckons that as she was in the bank at 12.49, the car was there from 12.40. It could be that SJL left at 12.35 rather than 12.40, but in that case she drove to 123SR (which was for sale), met whomever she met, switched cars and was gone without a trace literally seconds before WJ left, seeing no sign of anyone or any other car.

SJL also did all this despite having put 37SR in her diary, and you wonder why if she was actually going to 123SR. Why not just go there and write that in the diary? She didn't intend to conduct a viewing, and none was scheduled, so why meet someone there? Why leave her car unlocked and her purse in the door pocket?

You can crowbar the timings together to make them work, just about but not much of the rest of the picture makes sense.

If the car was already parked on Stevenage Road at 12:40, then no matter what actually happened to Suzy, she presumably must have left work in time for the car to get there. And regardless of who drove it (Suzy or anyone else) they must have been "gone without a trace" before WJ noticed the car--even if they only had seconds to get away.

There's no obvious reason why Suzy would have driven to 123SR rather than 37SR, yet that's where the car ended up. And if WJ (and AM) can be believed, it was there within minutes of Suzy leaving Sturgis. So either Suzy put it there, or she was accosted and relieved of her car almost immediately after walking out of work. Those seem to be the only logical ways it could have gotten there by 12:40-12:45.

It all happened within minutes. But if that is what happened, it's not crowbarring the timing. It's just what happened. Sometimes things don't make sense.

IF (I stress IF) the sighting by WJ was accurate, the car was outside 123SR as early as 12:40 and she never saw anyone near it. IF (and again I stress IF) sightings outside 37SR were accurate, then somehow Suzy and her car were in two different places within just 5-10 minutes--but one of those places *was* the place she was supposed to be according to her diary. Because it now seems to be about as confirmed as it can be that the car *was* outside 123SR (despite no obvious reason for it to be there), the 37SR sightings are questioned. And yet that is precisely where the diary said Suzy should have been. Sightings of Suzy at 37SR are only strange because her car was seemingly somewhere else.

As unlikely as it sounds, the Google route map does say the journey from Sturgis to 123SR to 37SR is just about doable in the time allowed. If that is what Suzy did, sadly she's no longer here to ask her why. But in a case where almost nothing is known with certainty, I think anything that is *possible* has to be looked at as a *possibility*. Even if it makes no sense.

Perhaps the car wouldn't have been parked across from 123SR, or the driver would have still been visible, if WJ had looked just 30 seconds earlier. Perhaps a few seconds made all the difference, as it so often does.