What do Burke's interviews tell us?

[DeeDee249]

txsvicki, I don't think JBR's head wound was delivered in the kitchen, either. I agree that there is no position for her to have had that would make sense unless she was lying on the floor or had her head down on the counter. And if she had been lying on the kitchen floor, seems to me that she would have had injuries on the other side of her head, too -- i.e., at least bad bruising, as you suggest in your scenarios.

wengr, you make very good points there, IMO. In looking at that terrible picture of her skull injury -- oh how awful it is -- I think her head would have to have been against a solid object as you suggest. And just like you said -- so that her head would absorb most of the energy from the blow. If this is what happened, I agree that BR could have had the strength to do it, especially if he were in a rage. JMO

I will add, after looking at the skull wound again, that a golf club, IMO, would have been an ideal object with which to express that anger and deliver all that energy that had to come from a blow that would inflict that much damage. The club would have enabled the user to reach back, so to speak, and then swing hard. But a head wound would bleed quite a bit. Where did the blood go? This has bugged me for years.

Any ideas? Or did I miss something about blood?

The head bash was a closed scalp injury. There was no laceration or cut on the scalp- so no external blood was seen. There WAS blood- inside her skull. There is some evidence it may have oozed a bit from her nose and mouth, but was not stated as such in the autopsy report. Instead, a "tan mucous" was noted on her right sleeve (her head cocked to the right supports this) and in her nostrils. There is also a possibility that there was some droplets of blood (not a large quantity) on a pillowcase in her bedroom. Patsy was said to have commented to LE while examining JB's bed "I don't see any blood, do you?" LE also asked Patsy whether JB was prone to nosebleeds.
It is this lack of significant observable blood that makes me believe that the head bash came first, and was closer to the strangulation and death than many believe. Had she lived longer, blood would have seeped from her nose, mouth, even her ears.
We also have to consider blood may have been cleaned away just like the blood that was wiped from her pubic area and thighs. An odor of bleach was reported in JB's bathroom. And LE asked Patsy whether JB was prone to nosebleeds. When examining JB's bed and room with LE, Patsy was said to have commented "I don't seen any blood, do you?" I am nit sure if she made this comment before or after being asked about the nosebleeds.

 

[borndem]

Thanks, DeeDee249 for the solid answer above -- I am late in coming to this dance -- I am still behind in reading all the posts on all the various Ramsey-related threads -- so I appreciate your filling in some things I did not know! I kept up with it while it was unfolding those years ago, but somehow I have gotten drawn back into it within the last 2--3 weeks. I guess we could still be hashing it back and forth 2--3 years from now. Frustrating and maddening, isn't it?!

Since I posted the post above, I have read that a golf club was prolly not the weapon used, but the flashlight may well have been what was wielded. It was described as very similar to a policeman's flashlight and that could indeed do the damage that was seen in JB's wound. Bless her little heart.

Again, thanks for the good info.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

There's this website that has an archive of many magazine articles about the case:

http://jonbenet-ramsey.com/articles/

I was looking through it, and I found this interesting picture of Burke I've never seen before. It looks like it was only used by a French magazine. Now, how did they get their hands on it? Was it taken before or after the murder? He looks older, so I am going to say after. It just seems weird to me that they published this picture of Burke, looking very wide-eyed, holding a cat??

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

.....and what's worse----look at the cat's eyes and who he's keeping his eyes on!

:scared:

 

[pageantmom]

I would say Burke looks really beautiful in that picture, except this thread creeped me out so much that I can only find creepiness in the photo. Lol. It is weird that the cats eyes are looking up at Burke lol. I'm sure it doesn't mean anything but..

Ok now I'm CURIOUS...DOES ANYONE HERE READ FRENCH?? I want to know what that article says!! The only part I could figure out was in the yellow part it says jealousy caused some type of accident of a sexual nature? I don't speak French but it looks like it said that...sort of toward the middle of the yellow part. The French words for "jealousy", "accident", and sexual are all similar to our English words, so that's about all I got.

 

[questfortrue]

I would say Burke looks really beautiful in that picture, except this thread creeped me out so much that I can only find creepiness in the photo. Lol. It is weird that the cats eyes are looking up at Burke lol. I'm sure it doesn't mean anything but..

Ok now I'm CURIOUS...DOES ANYONE HERE READ FRENCH?? I want to know what that article says!! The only part I could figure out was in the yellow part it says jealousy caused some type of accident of a sexual nature? I don't speak French but it looks like it said that...sort of toward the middle of the yellow part. The French words for "jealousy", "accident", and sexual are all similar to our English words, so that's about all I got.

The copy under the photo roughly translated: "The sensational American media promoted the theory that the brother of JonBenet committed his sister’s murder. The two reasons suggested were jealousy due to the attention that Patsy gave her daughter, or even an accident during a game of a sexual nature. The parents altered the crime scene in order to avoid losing their son and their business. However, the authorities officially refuted that theory stating that BR’s name was scratched from the list of suspects. JAR, half-brother to BR and JonBenet, age 20 at the time of the crime, was also singled out by the tabloids, but he had a concrete alibi, being almost 3 hours by plane from Boulder at the time of the murder.

 

[pageantmom]

:loveyou: thank you questfortrue!

 

[Meara]

The copy under the photo roughly translated: "The sensational American media promoted the theory that the brother of JonBenet committed his sister’s murder. The two reasons suggested were jealousy due to the attention that Patsy gave her daughter, or even an accident during a game of a sexual nature. The parents altered the crime scene in order to avoid losing their son and their business. However, the authorities officially refuted that theory stating that BR’s name was scratched from the list of suspects. JAR, half-brother to BR and JonBenet, age 20 at the time of the crime, was also singled out by the tabloids, but he had a concrete alibi, being almost 3 hours by plane from Boulder at the time of the murder.

Bien fait! Only one small detail...More likely "to avoid losing their son as well as their daughter" ("leur fils en plus de leur fille" - it is a bit blurred).

 

[questfortrue]

Bien fait! Only one small detail...More likely "to avoid losing their son as well as their daughter" ("leur fils en plus de leur fille" - it is a bit blurred).

Thank you, good catch. Couldn't make out some of the words (blurred) in the photo.

 

[borndem]

Just looking a Burke as Burke in that picture, he is truly a beautiful child. His eyes are very fine. His naturally dark lips make him even more pretty -- and I am not using the word "pretty" in anything close or resembling anything negative. He is just a pretty child -- and that is a high compliment coming from me. I can see JonBenet in his face as well.

I do wonder how BR viewed his sister on a day-to-day basis. Was he used to everybody making a big deal of what she did? Did he ignore it or did he get angrier and self-debasing because he wasn't as "good" as she was? Did JB brag about herself to him? Did the elder R's make a big deal out of him too so that he would be proud of himself?

How did brother & sister get along on a day by day basis? (Being an only child myself, and having an only child, give me no perspective on sibling relationships.) We have some good friends who had this type deal going on with their younger daughter and their older son -- their only children -- but I never saw anything adverse, either when they were children or as adults. I wonder about this quite a bit on this case...

 

[borndem]

About BR's Interviews

Another poster mentioned in an earlier comment that whoever struck JB with that kind of force intended to inflict major harm, even obliterate her. And, while it likely wasn’t premeditated, it was intentional. That’s a harsh idea to consider, but in looking at this crime, it’s important to consider what relevance this has regarding the perpetrator. Before throwing this out there I want to mention some research on SBP, sexual behavior problems, I uncovered. Now, this isn’t scientific, and so take it for what I found, or what you find out yourself in “googling’ information. What has always disturbed me about the BDI is the rarity of a sexual assault coupled with a homicide, in a child this young. (In the killing of little Jamie Bulger by 2 10 year olds, it wasn’t definitively established that he was sexually assaulted. More like sexually tortured perhaps, unsure. And of course Jamie Bulger was a random attack, not a relative.) Anyway, my point is it is very, very rare. We know sibling abuse is not. But coupled with homicide it is the only case I’ve seen involving a child this young. ( Maybe other sleuthers can find instances.)

Friends of the R’s have commented that BR was a little different. Not the kind of “open” kid that JB was. There’s a comment in ST’s book about the gardener trying to engage in conversation with BR and BR answered in monosyllables. Not interested in talking to the gardener. This was typical behavior before the crime. It doesn’t surprise me he manifested a flat affect with the CPS interviewer Dr. B. He wasn’t afraid after the crime, but he was irritated in being asked about JB’s death, perhaps because he’d likely been hushed about such discussions at home. And he was not at ease when Dr. B asked him about uncomfortable touch. Someone had talked to him about this topic before.

The responses he gave in his CPS interview were protective of his parents, according to Dr. B. Not surprising. But the interview almost struck me as classically JR: Very careful about what he said.

Difficult to figure BR out with such scant info. It is too bad they did not obtain medical records, but I’ve wondered whether there would be much shown. It might have been shown he was molesting his sister, but counselors are, and were even back in the ‘90’s, supposed to report suspected abuse.

From Kolar’s book after the crime a mother of one of BR’s friends and her son flew to Atlanta to be with BR during the funeral. She had an interesting comment from her son, BR’s friend. According to BR’s friend, BR acted as though he kind of knew what had happened and trusted that people would figure it out. This does not sound as though he’s afraid people will “finger him.” I don’t believe he was afraid, but I do think, from his disturbed drawings and the instances reported from classmates at his private school in Atlanta, he was sometimes one very angry young man after the homicide. All moo.

bbm

There is one situation I have read about, but the age of the killer was not 10 years old, he was 13, but he did sexually abuse his victim. It was Eric Smith, and he confessed to killing Derrick Robie, who was 4 y/o. You may recall it -- it was national news due to the obvious sadness & cruelty of the case.

Here's an interesting article about children who kill, and it mentions Eric Smith, among others:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...who-murder-jordan-brown-eric-smith-and-others

 

[Charterhouse]

If BR did this to JB would he have had to have some psychological or personality disorder to do such a thing?
Would a normal child do this out of jealously?
If it was a psychological disorder or personality disorder, could it be managed with treatment so he could become a functioning adult?
Questions that all need to be answered or should have at least been considered.

Just because ML did not want to be on the wrong side of her friends, the R's, is just not an excuse for not looking further into this.

 

[DeeDee249]

If BR did this to JB would he have had to have some psychological or personality disorder to do such a thing?
Would a normal child do this out of jealously?
If it was a psychological disorder or personality disorder, could it be managed with treatment so he could become a functioning adult?
Questions that all need to be answered or should have at least been considered.

Just because ML did not want to be on the wrong side of her friends, the R's, is just not an excuse for not looking further into this.

Any child that would abuse and then kill a sibling has a disorder. This behavior is not in the realm of normal behavior at all. The R asked for (and got) BR's medical records to be sealed. There HAD to be something in there they didn't want police or the public to see. The family may have been very aware that he had a disorder, and he may have been teated for it. He is an adult now, and presumably living a normal life. But there is no way to know whether he ever received treatment of any kind.

 

[Darlene733510]

I wonder what his teachers had to say about BR? PR volunteered at the school many times.
Was she there to keep an eye on BR, and if so, were there problems at school?
I wonder if he ever went to JB's pageants? If not, was he resentful about being left behind?
If he stayed home, who was the baby sitter?
If PR was molested by her own father, then I don't think he would hesitate to molest her children.
When PR was going through the cancer treatments, I would imagine she was given a lot of
TLC from everyone one, then
we have all the attention on JB, and the pageants. IMO, a child could become very resentful of all this. Even Grandma was determined to pursue her dream of the "Little Beauty Queen" one day becoming "Miss America"
I sure would like to know what the medical records contained. I bet we would find many answers to this perplexing case.

 

[DeeDee249]

I wonder what his teachers had to say about BR? PR volunteered at the school many times.
Was she there to keep an eye on BR, and if so, were there problems at school?
I wonder if he ever went to JB's pageants? If not, was he resentful about being left behind?
If he stayed home, who was the baby sitter?
If PR was molested by her own father, then I don't think he would hesitate to molest her children.
When PR was going through the cancer treatments, I would imagine she was given a lot of
TLC from everyone one, then
we have all the attention on JB, and the pageants. IMO, a child could become very resentful of all this. Even Grandma was determined to pursue her dream of the "Little Beauty Queen" one day becoming "Miss America"
I sure would like to know what the medical records contained. I bet we would find many answers to this perplexing case.

Unfortunately, these are questions we may never have the answers to. But one thing is for sure- the medical records of BOTH kids hold a lot of the answers, or else they would not need to be sealed.

 

[x_files]

Unfortunately, these are questions we may never have the answers to. But one thing is for sure- the medical records of BOTH kids hold a lot of the answers, or else they would not need to be sealed.

Could they legally ever be unsealed?
Why would they seal their children's medical records?
Why did they grant the Ramsey's that kind of power?

 

[DeeDee249]

Could they legally ever be unsealed?
Why would they seal their children's medical records?
Why did they grant the Ramsey's that kind of power?

Yes, they can legally be unsealed. It requires a warrant. And a DA or judge with enough of a spine to unseal them.

They would seal their children's medical records because there is incriminating evidence in them. Possibly evidence of knowledge of prior sexual abuse or injury or inappropriate contact between JB and her sibling(s). And to me, this would have to be the ONLY reason to ask for them to be sealed. They could answer a lot about the crime that the parents (and their lawyers) do not want answered.

The DA was responsible for granting them this power. He did not, nor should he have, had to do so. He should have denied the request and obtained a warrant to allow LE to examine them. Ditto for the school nurse's records.
But we have to remember the DA was actually working for the defense, and not for the people of Boulder or justice for JB.

 

[Tadpole12]

There's this website that has an archive of many magazine articles about the case:

http://jonbenet-ramsey.com/articles/

I was looking through it, and I found this interesting picture of Burke I've never seen before. It looks like it was only used by a French magazine. Now, how did they get their hands on it? Was it taken before or after the murder? He looks older, so I am going to say after. It just seems weird to me that they published this picture of Burke, looking very wide-eyed, holding a cat??

Heyya eileenhawkeye.

Great link, Treasure hold of photos.
Ty.

Maybe it is an exclusive for a French magazine,
oohlala.

The subsequent page, file 19/30, BR and PR and a boy are sitting at a table eating hot dogs and pop,
and in the Oct 30, 1999, edition of derniere heure, file 2/144,
both PR and JR are pictured sitting on a bench with BR and kitten between them.
BR sports same blue shirt in the photos.

There's also an exterior shot, of the three, within the archive, could be Charlevoix?

 

[x_files]

Heyya eileenhawkeye.

Great link, Treasure hold of photos.
Ty.

Maybe it is an exclusive for a French magazine,
oohlala.

The subsequent page, file 19/30, BR and PR and a boy are sitting at a table eating hot dogs and pop,
and in the Oct 30, 1999, edition of derniere heure, file 2/144,
both PR and JR are pictured sitting on a bench with BR and kitten between them.
BR sports same blue shirt in the photos.

There's also an exterior shot, of the three, within the archive, could be Charlevoix?

Burke looks very creepy to me, especially in this staged photo.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Heyya eileenhawkeye.

Great link, Treasure hold of photos.
Ty.

Maybe it is an exclusive for a French magazine,
oohlala.

The subsequent page, file 19/30, BR and PR and a boy are sitting at a table eating hot dogs and pop,
and in the Oct 30, 1999, edition of derniere heure, file 2/144,
both PR and JR are pictured sitting on a bench with BR and kitten between them.
BR sports same blue shirt in the photos.

There's also an exterior shot, of the three, within the archive, could be Charlevoix?

The pictures you are talking about were originally in People Magazine. My guess is that the French magazine bought the pictures from People to publish in their magazines too. As for how the French magazine got the picture of Burke with a cat, my guess is that they contacted the Ramseys, and the Ramseys supplied them with the photo. It just seems like the type of photo of Burke that Patsy would give to a magazine that wanted one. Although, since Burke is wearing the same blue shirt, it's possibly it's an outtake from the People magazine shoot that they decided not to use, and the French magazine decided to use it.