Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #11

[IzzyBlanche]

Don't you think that the fact that he was so obsessed with past massacres was his motive, as in he just wanted to commit the worst one of all, so he chose the most vulnerable targets he could, in a school he half knew with the aim of getting the highest tally ever. That's what I think his motive was, committing the worst massacre in history. The next killer will look over Adam Lanza's plans and method and will see where and how he fell short and try and outdo him, and so on and so on.

I think there may be a lot of truth in this theory.

ETA: Unfortunately we may never find out one way or the other.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I don't blame her, but my god she had to know he was sick, complete total isolation + gun obsession is never a good combination, don't people know this?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I don't blame her, but my god she had to know he was sick, complete total isolation + gun obsession is never a good combination, don't people know this?

That's an excellent question. For my own part I am terrified of guns and don't want them anywhere near me, so I would be really interested in hearing the views of gun owners/aficionados regarding this situation.

PS For the record I wholeheartedly agree with the Second Amendment right to bear arms. I just don't want to be the bear. :floorlaugh:

 

[bourne]

I don't blame her, but my god she had to know he was sick, complete total isolation + gun obsession is never a good combination, don't people know this?

It's readily apparent that the mother was in denial. I think she loved him and wanted him to be happy, but underestimated the degree of volatility and violence in his nature. Unfortunately there is no litmus test for parenting children, no guidebook or class for parents to take on how to identify risks in children and how to prevent children from becoming violent murderers. IMO, there should be.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I wonder if Adam killed Nancy first as almost a favor to her? She would never know that her son murdered 26 people including 20 little kids, nor would she have to deal with the massive outrage that would befell her if she was still alive.

 

[jjenny]

I wonder if Adam killed Nancy first as almost a favor to her? She would never know that her son murdered 26 people including 20 little kids, nor would she have to deal with the massive outrage that would befell her if she was still alive.

If he wanted to do his mother a favor, he could have just not killed anyone to begin with.

 

[iSleuth]

It's readily apparent that the mother was in denial. I think she loved him and wanted him to be happy, but underestimated the degree of volatility and violence in his nature. Unfortunately there is no litmus test for parenting children, no guidebook or class for parents to take on how to identify risks in children and how to prevent children from becoming violent murderers. IMO, there should be.

Even if we live locally, and had read and heard quite a bit of the info I personally wasn't prepared to read the documents nor was I prepared to read just how much NL 's denial and bad decisions played into the outcome and Al's clearly advancing problems.
I feel so ambivalent about her. A victim, yes absolutely but IMO she was literally trapped in a world she enabled . So sad -so horrendous - instead of having so much power and autonomy he really should have been institutionalized. As parents we have to know when to listen and turn to professionals.


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[4MYGUYS]

Even if we live locally, and had read and heard quite a bit of the info I personally wasn't prepared to read the documents nor was I prepared to read just how much NL 's denial and bad decisions played into the outcome and Al's clearly advancing problems.
I feel so ambivalent about her. A victim, yes absolutely but IMO she was literally trapped in a world she enabled . So sad -so horrendous - instead of having so much power and autonomy he really should have been institutionalized. As parents we have to know when to listen and turn to professionals.


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Yes, and when we know adults who are NOT parenting their ill child, how do we protect ourselves and children? What is going on with the parents of all of these young adults who are living at home and preparing and then perpetrating mass destruction at an ever worsening level on our children.
I think the issue is the parent/s love and want their kids to be happy thus believe they should give the kid whatever he/she wants, and this has been the rule from very early childhood on. Fine, if the kid just becomes fat and lazy, but ever increasingly now we need protection from this new breed of indulgent parenting and their mentally ill offspring who are dodging intervention.
I think AL was totally in control of NL, especially in the area of guns.

 

[michmi]

The fact that there is no real motive just drives me crazy. I expected it to turn out this way, but still it is maddening.

I always feel so bad when people talk about Nancy Lanza. Although she made some decisions that puzzle me, I have no idea what she was going through so I am not about to judge her. Being a parent of a mentally ill child is hard even with resources.

When you have "resources" it's much easier. Her problem was denial (and I do believe that for most of his life she was in denial that there was much wrong with him). She might have started waking up shortly before he went off, he might have discovered her plans for moving them, his obsession with mass murder overtook him, who knows.

To me, it doesn't matter what his motive was. What does matter to me is that a supposedly intelligent woman stood by and did nothing for years, and because of that, so many people are without their own children.

 

[LambChop]

My opinion only but had she institutionalized him the support money would have stopped. That very well could have been the incentive for her to keep him in the home.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

My opinion only but had she institutionalized him the support money would have stopped. That very well could have been the incentive for her to keep him in the home.

BBM: Great point, Lamb! I had never thought of that......I just kept thinking it was a Mom who was in denial.
But you may very well be right........it could've been to keep the money rolling in!

 

[iSleuth]

My opinion only but had she institutionalized him the support money would have stopped. That very well could have been the incentive for her to keep him in the home.

I don't know anything about the divorce settlement.
Regardless -both parents were in denial and guilty of ..what is the term ... Euphemistic language or something like it. Going around propelling a myth /Public Relations- that he had "aspergers syndrome" my lord !! Heaven help me : you wouldn't believe the parents I have encountered in the state of CT. If I didn't already quit working in the system for similar reasons-( I happily teach at an inner city college now) I would be even more upset. Parents have so much power and often fail to disclose the true diagnoses all the time. We teachers and the public are left with the pieces. I could give you 50 examples off the top of my head. The most important thing... Is parents deal and face and treat the truth - head on before the 18th b-day. On that day that the person no matter how messed up- or untreated takes over their own life and volition. Unless the person is declared Non c. And committed or causes a crime off they go Into our communities and classrooms. Awful truth. Last week in ct. Someone was charged for NOT reporting child abuse .
Maybe in the future someone would actually report on someone like that kid killer.
I'm glad that report doesn't have more info. IMO it has enough.
I am proud that sedensky chose to have not one drop of blood even the killers name in the report.
Trying to settle down but I am so upset over this
So with that I want to wish Happy thanksgiving to you all and your wonderful families.
May you all be blessed.

Love ISleuth

 

[bourne]

Even if we live locally, and had read and heard quite a bit of the info I personally wasn't prepared to read the documents nor was I prepared to read just how much NL 's denial and bad decisions played into the outcome and Al's clearly advancing problems.
I feel so ambivalent about her. A victim, yes absolutely but IMO she was literally trapped in a world she enabled . So sad -so horrendous - instead of having so much power and autonomy he really should have been institutionalized. As parents we have to know when to listen and turn to professionals.


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I think for us it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback and judge what NL should or should not have done for her violent son AL. Hindsight is always 20/20.

While I don't excuse NL's clearly missed opportunities to get AL the professional help that he so desperately needed, I can understand, from a mother's point of view, how she herself was ambivalent (as you are) about how to *treat/help* AL. I agree she likely felt *torn* particularly because it sounded like she was an educated, intelligent woman. All I can say is that she underestimated AL's mental problems and overestimated her own ability to handle or *cure* him on her own.

Again, my view is that with the values in today's society so singularly focused on what I believe are the wrong things -- celebrity, money, materialism, power, greed, self-centreness -- what I call the "It's All About Me and My Own Happiness and I Don't Give a Flying Hoot about Anyone Else" syndrome -- communities need to step up and initiate pro-active programs on parenting before more kids fall through the cracks like Adam Lanza and Philip Chism.

 

[iSleuth]

I think for us it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback and judge what NL should or should not have done for her violent son AL. Hindsight is always 20/20.

While I don't excuse NL's clearly missed opportunities to get AL the professional help that he so desperately needed, I can understand, from a mother's point of view, how she herself was ambivalent (as you are) about how to *treat/help* AL. I agree she likely felt *torn* particularly because it sounded like she was an educated, intelligent woman. All I can say is that she underestimated AL's mental problems and overestimated her own ability to handle or *cure* him on her own.

Again, my view is that with the values in today's society so singularly focused on what I believe are the wrong things -- celebrity, money, materialism, power, greed, self-centreness -- what I call the "It's All About Me and My Own Happiness and I Don't Give a Flying Hoot about Anyone Else" syndrome -- communities need to step up and initiate pro-active programs on parenting before more kids fall through the cracks like Adam Lanza and Philip Chism.

Hi Bourne
I agree 100%
People 's hopeful under estimation of the problems and over estimation of their abilities to handle it all. tragic consequences for all.

Also, I don't see how people say there is no motive - he wanted to join the school shooters and make history. I think if more details would be released god knows who would be learning from him and planning the next and worst shocking mass murder.



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[IzzyBlanche]

I've been reading what I find to be a very interesting book: "You're Wearing That? Understanding Mothers and Daughters in Conversation" by Deborah Tannen.

I'm paraphrasing, but one point it makes is that blame gets heaped on the mother for whatever situation in the child's life, when the father is equally to blame.

So now I'm curious as to what AL's dad did, or did not do, to try to address his son's problems. From what I recall--and all of you WSers who know more than I, please correct me--he more or less abandoned AL to his mother's custody.

I know it was said in the report that AL cut off ties with his father and older brother years ago, but what does that mean, were details given? I can't imagine the father simply accepting this dictum from what at that time had to be a minor child, so how was this estrangement brought about?

Just throwing out some thoughts/questions...have no theory of my own except maybe mom wasn't the only one enabling AL or in denial.

And I am not blaming either parent for their son's actions. Just to be crystal clear on that point.

 

[jjenny]

I think for us it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback and judge what NL should or should not have done for her violent son AL. Hindsight is always 20/20.

While I don't excuse NL's clearly missed opportunities to get AL the professional help that he so desperately needed, I can understand, from a mother's point of view, how she herself was ambivalent (as you are) about how to *treat/help* AL. I agree she likely felt *torn* particularly because it sounded like she was an educated, intelligent woman. All I can say is that she underestimated AL's mental problems and overestimated her own ability to handle or *cure* him on her own.

Again, my view is that with the values in today's society so singularly focused on what I believe are the wrong things -- celebrity, money, materialism, power, greed, self-centreness -- what I call the "It's All About Me and My Own Happiness and I Don't Give a Flying Hoot about Anyone Else" syndrome -- communities need to step up and initiate pro-active programs on parenting before more kids fall through the cracks like Adam Lanza and Philip Chism.

Actually, it's pretty straight forward in this case. Clearly AL was very abnormal. However much in denial his mother was, surely she realized he was abnormal. Why exactly did she have to bond with him over guns?
Teaching someone like him how to use guns and then purchasing multiple very powerful guns-one doesn't need to be psychic to figure out this was not going to lead to any good.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

NEWTOWN school shooter Adam Lanza's father Peter is a guilt- and grief-wracked "broken" man who still can’t deal with the unspeakable atrocity perpetrated by his deranged son, a relative said.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...oken-man-sources/story-fnh81jut-1226772121453

I really feel for the father, it was not his fault. I have a feeling he was shut out of his sons life by his son, and there was very little he could do to influence Nancy about his care, or even know how severe things really were.

 

[bourne]

Actually, it's pretty straight forward in this case. Clearly AL was very abnormal. However much in denial his mother was, surely she realized he was abnormal. Why exactly did she have to bond with him over guns?
Teaching someone like him how to use guns and then purchasing multiple very powerful guns-one doesn't need to be psychic to figure out this was not going to lead to any good.

Again, it's very easy for us (you) to say what AL's mom should/should not have done. We were *not* living her life. We don't know her thoughts and values nor do we (strangers to the Lanzas) know who the mom was on a personal basis. What we see, we are seeing as an *aftermath* of AL's tragic choices.

Certainly there is responsibility on her part for AL learning to use guns, but AL was also an adult so he himself was accountable for his own choices and for the mass shooting. What you see as *pretty straightforward* is not so when you are personally living in the situation, especially as a mother who appeared to have loved her child.

I am certain if you are a mother who have adult children and your adult children commit a crime and/or do something wrong, you would not want others to judge you for what they believe is "pretty straightforward" and obvious.

 

[bourne]

NEWTOWN school shooter Adam Lanza's father Peter is a guilt- and grief-wracked "broken" man who still can’t deal with the unspeakable atrocity perpetrated by his deranged son, a relative said.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...oken-man-sources/story-fnh81jut-1226772121453

I really feel for the father, it was not his fault. I have a feeling he was shut out of his sons life by his son, and there was very little he could do to influence Nancy about his care, or even know how severe things really were.

I give the father the same type of latitude I give the mother. I think the father, like the mother, should have kept a vigilant eye over their adult child AL, particularly because AL appeared to have withdrawn from the father, uncle and brother after his parents' divorce, but I also believe that the horrific choices to murder schoolchildren and staff were AL's alone. I do not blame the parents for AL's murderous actions. I do, however, believe that had the parents been more vigilant and communicated more with AL *and* with each other, AL's disintegration from reality might have been caught earlier and perhaps AL might not have caused the mass casualties.

 

[LambChop]

Neither parent seems to be a psychology major so we can only assume that neither of them ever dreamt their son would have killed all those children and teachers. Most of us feel we can handle our own children and this is why crime is so high. It's not an easy job even without the extra burden of mental health issues. jmo