Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[EastCoast]

No mystery, but whoever wrote the note would probably have put that pineapple down the garbage disposal if they'd thought about it or even noticed it out on the table.

Yes, that would make the most sense. That is where I have a problem. The ransom note took such a long time to write out, why not think of other things?
That is why I think it was a personal thing.

 

[EastCoast]

I am leaning toward that BR and JBR went down to the kitchen with the flashlight? Then things took a turn for the worse?

 

[Mendara]

Hey Pam, while you are at it, grab that darn golf bag out of the cellar area, I know I just had a child murdered, but my friend wants to borrow the golf clubs. It doesn't matter that snow is on the ground in Atlanta, and golfing is not optimum, but fgs get the golf clubs.

Perhaps a golf club was the instrument of the blow to the head and the flashlight was just used as a flashlight that night so as not to turn on the lights while staging? Mo

 

[BBB167893]

I can't remember who said it, but perhaps someone here will remember that this person said that we have only heard about 10 o/o of the evidence. AH was the one who made the big decisions. He decided what would be sent to the lab for testing, what should be followed up on investigative matter, etc. Then came LS, and his fiasco about an intruder entering through the basement window. These 2 men cared not one iota about the murder of this beautiful little girl. Both were too busy protecting the R's. Does anyone honestly think that if the R's had been poor ordinary people, they would not have been prosecuted?
How do people live with themselves when justice is denied to a child who is tortured and murdered, and because the parents are wealthy they get away with the crime?

Darlene, the list of people who have betrayed this little angel (and, in my mind, other little victims) is already a LONG one (and seems to get longer all the time). But I'd have to put these two at the top (or, the bottom, depending how you look at it).

 

[cherisa]

Just when I think I got it all figured out....bam!

I think jdi but I keep wondering about Bill McRenolds. Too many weird stuff around him.

 

[BBB167893]

I've noticed you make reference to your brother before, but I do not know what you mean?

Venom has it quite right. My brother convinced that there was some kind of conspiracy in the DA's office to try and tank this case. I'll give you the short version.

My bro compares this case to the Watergate scandal. In his mind, Richard Nixon didn't resign to maintain the dignity of his office, he resigned because he was afraid that an investigation would unearth something even WORSE (what that was, he never tells me). Well, Bro looks at this the same way. He thinks that Alex Hunter had something that he was desperate to hide from prying eyes, and that's why he called the Grand Jury when he was vocally opposed to it: because the governor's office was threatening to step in if he didn't, and he couldn't afford that.

Bro doesn't say what Hunter was afraid of being found (he seems to imply a backhanded deal with the Haddon Law firm), but he outlines several points:

1) The close relationship between the DA's office and the Haddon firm.

2) The way Lou Smit was able to keep case evidence he took illegally.

3) The aforementioned Grand Jury as a dog-and-pony show

4) Henry Lee's warning that if Hunter pursued a case, he would have to confess his own sins.

 

[txsvicki]

I think every person interviewed or even people who knew the family are the oddest people I've ever heard of. Most of them seemed to be kissing Patsy and John's rear and maybe using them, and vice versa.

 

[wengr]

The thing I find interesting about this poll is that out of eleven choices, the second most popular choice is this:

BR (head bash); then JR & PR (strangled/coverup)

I have to admit that imo, that is just about the last of the choices I would accept.
Three willing participants, while the case can be theorized with less, seems far to much of a stretch imho.

 

[cherisa]

I think every person interviewed or even people who knew the family are the oddest people I've ever heard of. Most of them seemed to be kissing Patsy and John's rear and maybe using them, and vice versa.

Is it Colorado? I've never been there but, it seems like really strange stuff going on there. I'm not talking just about jonbenet . Other stuff too, like the movie theater shooter and columbine. I hate to judge a whole state, but geesh!

 

[borndem]

And also, to cover up some family secrets.

Indeed, expat -- I neglected to add that little ( ) part! The prior molestation...

It was a total whammyhoocher of a mess! :trainwreck:

But it remains a "perfect crime" so far.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I think that the Maglite is a key issue. Why was it wiped of prints? I am thinking that the Maglite made its way from the 2nd floor to the kitchen and that it was used as a weapon there. They are very heavy and I feel they could inflict the damage that was done to JBR cranium. I think that the chaos from the evening involved one person wiping the flashlight clean of prints, and the other trying to deny the existence of it.

Why do you assume the Maglite was ever upstairs? It was kept in a drawer in the kitchen, and the exact drawer it was kept in was photographed open in the crime scene photos. And the Maglite is later found sitting on the kitchen counter.

IF the Maglite was the weapon that inflicted the head trauma, my guess is that it never made it's way out of the kitchen.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I found this old article about the case that I thought had some ridiculous quotes in it. It's an March 2000 interview with the Rocky Mountain News

http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/2000/mar/20/archived-story-interview-john-and-patsy-ramsey-pa2/

Early on, the Ramseys received a letter from a woman who told them that JonBenet 's death changed her view of her relationship with her own daughter.

``This woman said, `I have a daughter, not so different from JonBenet . Because of what has happened, I'll now take that extra five minutes to read to her. I'm going to spend more time with my child,' '' John said.

I'm skeptical.

John and Patsy started a foundation in JonBenet 's name, as they had for John's eldest daughter, Beth, after she was killed in a traffic accident in 1992.

What foundation for Beth? Do they have a history of starting fake foundations prior to '96?

They have decided that the foundation will work to protect children against predators and help to solve murders of children.

Really...

``That includes advocating legislation and awareness,'' John said. ``I'd like to have a center with tip lines that offer rewards for information about child murders.''

I guess this didn't work out.

``If we could accelerate the response to a child murder in this country, then we will have accomplished something of long-term benefit,'' John said. ``Sadly, when a child is murdered in this country today, nothing much happens.''

No comment

Patsy plans to write a note to the mother of the 6-year-old Michigan girl who died at the hand of another 6-year-old, when that woman's pain is not so fresh

Imagine getting a note from Patsy Ramsey when your child was murdered. Do these two have any clue as to how most of the country views them?

One woman's son died after he was struck in the head by another child as he stepped off the school bus, and the story was in the local news day after day. One day, Patsy decided to go to this woman's house.

``We sat and cried, and we hugged each other. And later, she told me that the day before I showed up, she had been really down. And she prayed for God to send her help.''

She just went to the house without even calling first? And Patsy's presence made her feel better? And the kid was struck in the head by another child after getting off the school bus? I don't even think this kid ever existed.

`` `God sent me a grieving mother who would know how I felt,' '' Patsy said the woman told her.

Patsy was sent by God?

Little things have taken on larger meaning for the Ramseys. The first summer they moved to Atlanta, Burke wanted to take a friend from school with the family for a week's vacation in Michigan.

``We'd never met the parents,'' John said. And we thought, well, this'll be interesting, to see if these parents will let their kid go with convicted child murderers, at least convicted in public. And they said, `Great, of course he can go.'

``Later, we got to know the parents, and we said, `You know, it was really meaningful to us that you allowed your son to go with us, knowing what you probably thought about us from the media.'

``And they said, `We never even thought about that. We met you people, and we said, there's no way. It's insane. It never crossed our mind that he couldn't or shouldn't go with you.' ''

Another account that I am skeptical of. If it did happen, great parenting by the other couple. You let your son go on a week-long vacation thousands of miles away with a family you barely know?

They have scaled back their lifestyle, partly from necessity. John has learned that his name can be a liability in business. Gone are the Michigan vacation home, the airplane, the boat.

Um, they still own the plane and the vacation home in 2013.

``I've lost two children,'' John said. ``I could write a book on how people act.''

And he would...twice!

 

[borndem]

I've never thought John did any covering up until he cought on either right before or just after police arrived. Years ago I thought the slim possibility of intruder or Patsy, but now wondering if a child could have done all except the final staging of wiping and moving the body into the wine room and writing the note. I'm not even totally sure that JonBenet was carried into the wine room instead of perhaps drug somehow onto the blanket, or in the blanket. Maybe we haven't been told everything. I've also wondered for about a year if the wrist cords were a way to move and injured person. Loosely tie the hands, place the rop over the mover's head, pick up the upper body, and scoot the unconscious person.

bbm

I think that scenario is possible, txsvicki. Early on, I thought the neck & wrist "ropes" were used for that reason only -- to transport JB down the stairs.

When I read the part of your post that I bolded, it made me think of the question possibly by Burke that was reported to be faintly heard at the end of the 911 call: "What did you find?" I shivered.

 

[Charterhouse]

eileenhawkeye, I read the March 2000 article. The Ramseys are good "talkers".

I wish that is how things really were. It made me really sad to read that. Sad for all the parents who had murdered children.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

Re: the snippets of the article EileenHawkeye posted.

(Whether it's true or not) I find it interesting that in both examples the Ramseys gave for Patsy going and speaking to mothers of murdered children, both children were killed by other children.

 

[otg]

(snipped)

I found this old article about the case that I thought had some ridiculous quotes in it. It's an March 2000 interview with the Rocky Mountain News

http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/2000/mar/20/archived-story-interview-john-and-patsy-ramsey-pa2/

I agree with you on all your points, eileen (and I LOL'd at the humor in some of them :giggle: ).

I don't know if you'll agree with me on this point, but I can't help but notice that of all these other cases they talked about with parents in similar circumstances, there were only two that she mentions where she actually reached out and wrote to, or went to the house of. One was "the 6-year-old Michigan girl who died at the hand of another 6-year-old," and the other was the woman whose son "died after he was struck in the head by another child."

Should we not read anything into that?

 

[otg]

Re: the snippets of the article EileenHawkeye posted.

(Whether it's true or not) I find it interesting that in both examples the Ramseys gave for Patsy going and speaking to mothers of murdered children, both children were killed by other children.

:floorlaugh:
You must have posted as I was writing mine. Good! That tells me it wasn't just me thinking that.:seeya:

 

[FreeSafety36]

Re: the snippets of the article EileenHawkeye posted.

(Whether it's true or not) I find it interesting that in both examples the Ramseys gave for Patsy going and speaking to mothers of murdered children, both children were killed by other children.

(snipped)
I agree with you on all your points, eileen (and I LOL'd at the humor in some of them :giggle: ).

I don't know if you'll agree with me on this point, but I can't help but notice that of all these other cases they talked about with parents in similar circumstances, there were only two that she mentions where she actually reached out and wrote to, or went to the house of. One was "the 6-year-old Michigan girl who died at the hand of another 6-year-old," and the other was the woman whose son "died after he was struck in the head by another child."

Should we not read anything into that?

Very good catch by you two.

I guess Patsy couldn't truly relate to people whose children were actually kidnapped and their remains found later. Oops.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Yes, it's very interesting that the two cases specifically mentioned are where one kid kills another lkid. The 6-year-old killed by the other 6-year-old is true...The girl's name was Kayla Rolland. As for the story about the kid getting struck in the head after getting off the school bus, I think it could be this story. It happened in Atlanta in 1999:

Josh Belluardo, 13, had died in a Marietta hospital room of injuries he received when someone attacked him at a school bus stop two days earlier. The sheriff's investigators were charging a 15-year-old boy who rode the bus with Josh with murder.

It wouldn't surprise me though if the story about Patsy meeting with the mother is not true. I wouldn't put it pass John and Patsy to make it up.

The Ramseys seem pretty messed up, contacting parents who lost their children, when they are responsible for the death of their own child. And even if they were innocent, they know there's a good chance that the parents think they are guilty, so why contact them? I really hope they are lying about reaching out to parents.

 

[Tawny]

That is very telling, IMO, even though it isn't "evidence."

Honestly, I feel that people who harbor an immense amount of guilt, who can't outright confess, tell on themselves in other ways.