Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[Harmony 2]

thread #1

thread #2

Court documents:
12/20/13
http://www.scribd.com/doc/195182229...-20-2013-Opposition-to-Temp-Restraining-Order

http://www.scribd.com/doc/195183111/Children-s-Hospital-Okland-Physician-s-Declaration-Dec-20-2013

12/24/13
http://www.scribd.com/doc/195183615/Children-s-Hospital-Okland-Dec-24-2013-Opposition-to-Petition-to-Appoint-Dr-Paul-Byrne-as-an-
Independent-Expert

12/27/13
http://www.scribd.com/doc/195184121...13-Attorney-response-to-Esq-Dolan-family-atty

12/30/13
http://www.scribd.com/doc/195184920...rt-of-Appeal-Filing-by-Family-online-Document

http://www.scribd.com/doc/195185964...ec-30-2013-McMath-Civil-Rights-Lawsuit-filing

1/2/14
http://www.thaddeuspope.com/images/Mcmath_ND_Cal_Settlement_01-02-14.pdf

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[Kimster]

The namecalling ends. Now. It's clear in our rules that namecalling of players in cases, or each other, is a rules violation. If I see any more namecalling in this thread, the poster gets to be on the outside looking in.

Zero tolerance from this point forward. :saber:

 

[Harmony 2]

"Brain-death doesn't usually go on for several weeks," she added. "The brain is responsible for autonomic processes and if the brain is not alive, certain autonomic processes will cease and result in eventual death."

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...tate-launches-investigation-into-medical-case

 

[iluvmua]

Does this family seriously think this is a great place to take her? Have they even checked it out?

This is no place to take someone much less someone hooked up to a breathing machine.

I doubt the place even has air conditioning.

 

[SophieRose]

I believe the harvesting of her organs would have brought increased revenue to the hospital because the surgery would have taken place there. That's just my opinion.

Do you mean the surgeries for the children receiving the organs? If so, the organs could go anywhere in the US, whoever is on top of the list.

 

[Linda7NJ]

http://www.aopo.org/brain-death-a68

Brain death laws state by state!

A little scary....you'd think it would be uniform.


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[Linda7NJ]

http://surgery.med.miami.edu/laora/clinical-operations/brain-death-diagnosis

Criteria for ADULTS.


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[jaxibear]

http://www.aopo.org/brain-death-a68

Brain death laws state by state!

A little scary....you'd think it would be uniform.


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I randomly clicked on about 7 states, and the definitions were all extremely similar and, in some cases, identical.

 

[Steft50]

It was mentioned on the previous thread that there was no legal reason the hospital couldn't do the trach and gastric tube surgery so I thought I would post this again....apparently with the first extension the court ruled that the hospital is not to do these, and that ruling was upheld yesterday.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...cmath-hospital-fights-court-remove-brain-dead

"On Tuesday, Jahi family attorney Christopher Dolan filed a second brief with the appeals court, asking the judge to reverse earlier orders forbidding the hospital from giving Jahi a tracheotomy for breathing and inserting a gastric tube for feeding. However, a judge denied that request a short time later.

Hospital officials have refused to perform any medical procedure on Jahi since she was declared brain dead, saying it is unethical to do so. The hospital also will not allow an outside doctor to perform the procedures at Children's Hospital, according to spokesman Sam Singer."

 

[Linda7NJ]

NEW criteria for CHILDREN

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/748870




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[Linda7NJ]

Just read an article...I'll link it in a minute. About half the states have adopted the uniform standards.

How scary is it that a person can be legally dead in one state and not another?


http://www.uniformlaws.org/Narrative.aspx?title=Why States Should Adopt UDDA

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[Herat]

From the prior thread: "I know people who have kept their brain-damaged child in their home with 24-hour-nursing care so it really isn't as impossible as the hospital is insisting."

Having home care for a relative is not the same as a business accepting patients for care for reimbursement.

There are standards that have to be met to be licensed. Healthcare businesses that accept patients for care must meet CMS (Medicare) regulations, which are usually inspected by state health facilities licensing boards.

You cannot equate home care with a 24/7 licensed facility.

I will be happy to research the license for the New York facility if you can provide a name.
<modsnip>

 

[Karmady]

I randomly clicked on about 7 states, and the definitions were all extremely similar and, in some cases, identical.

That's correct.

From the link

Irreversible cessation of all functions of the brain including the cortex and the brain stem. This definition of whole brain death has been endorsed by the American Medical Association and the American Bar Association, and is law in 46 states. Thirty-six of these states have adopted some version of the Uniform Determination of Death Act, which includes whole brain death as a legal determination of death. Criteria for diagnosis rest on three principal abnormalities: (1) severe coma of known cause; (2) absent brainstem reflexes; and (3) sustained apnea. If brain death criteria are satisfied, the patient is legally dead and no further treatment or permission to treat is necessary.

http://www.ascensionhealth.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=117&Itemid=172

 

[forthelost]

I don't think the family has to return any money donated. I've got a fundraiser on the site myself and no one keeps track of where the money goes. You have to just trust the person.

 

[MyBelle]

Do you mean the surgeries for the children receiving the organs? If so, the organs could go anywhere in the US, whoever is on top of the list.

No, I meant the surgery to remove the organs from the donor.

 

[MyBelle]

From the prior thread: "I know people who have kept their brain-damaged child in their home with 24-hour-nursing care so it really isn't as impossible as the hospital is insisting."

Having home care for a relative is not the same as a business accepting patients for care for reimbursement.

There are standards that have to be met to be licensed. Healthcare businesses that accept patients for care must meet CMS (Medicare) regulations, which are usually inspected by state health facilities licensing boards.

You cannot equate home care with a 24/7 licensed facility.

I will be happy to research the license for the New York facility if you can provide a name.

And please do not resort to name calling. My comments come from a great deal of experience in healthcare, including licensing of healthcare facilities, medical staff regulations, and years of experience in hospital care.

<modsnip> I also don't know where you get the idea that the New York facility expects to reimbursed for Jahi's care or that they intended to create a 24/7 facility. They didn't say that in their letter and the news media haven't reported that fact.

 

[vlpate]

Moreover, surgeons have observed that brain-dead patients frequently react strongly to surgical incision at the time of organ procurement, with a rapidly increasing heart rate and a dramatic rise in blood pressure. Because of these signs of distress, donors are sometimes anesthetized during organ retrieval. Again, one must ask, what purpose would anesthesia serve for a corpse?

LINK".....under few circumstances do we allow operative surgery with muscle relaxation and without analgesia or anaesthesia, leading to a psychological compulsion to provide anaesthesia. Second, the hypertension and tachycardia that accompanies the donation operation can be distressing for operating theatre personnel to witness and for this reason alone one should always administer anaesthesia or agents to control these reflexes."

Byrne and his colleagues bring the argument to its logical conclusion when they maintain that it is impossible to remove vital organs from a corpse and successfully use those organs for transplant.

BEM

From a corpse, true....from a brain dead patient on a ventilator within a window of opportunity, absolutely possible, the way I understand everything I've read. Tricky verbiage, IMO

"Moreover, surgeons have observed that brain-dead patients frequently react strongly to surgical incision at the time of organ procurement, with a rapidly increasing heart rate and a dramatic rise in blood pressure. Because of these signs of distress, donors are sometimes anesthetized during organ retrieval. Again, one must ask, what purpose would anesthesia serve for a corpse?"

It serves to keep the attendings and observers from freaking out...or that's what I gathered from the articles I've read...one is cited above.

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/medical_ethics/me0054.html
Very informative and very balanced. Worth the read.
I sniped the part above because it horrified me!
It's not representative of the entire article.

Organ donation, however, is a moot point for Jahi. I think you might be worried that she can feel pain now...she can't. The movements described in the article you cited happen for an entirely different reason. She can't feel anything...her brain is not firing off impulse signals.

 

[Linda7NJ]

NEW YORK, October 1, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – At least one in five patients declared “brain dead” and approved as “organ donors” by one organ donation organisation, are in fact still alive and are being killed by the removal of vital organs, a lawsuit filed last week in Manhattan alleges. The suit outlines the ghoulish worst-case scenario, one that was widely dismissed as scaremongering in the early days of the development of organ transplant technology, but which is getting a second hearing amidst growing concerns that coercion and abuse are becoming increasingly common in the highly lucrative transplant business.


The New York Organ Donor Network, McMahon says, even hires “coaches” to help obtain consent “notes”. These coaches, the suit contends, are nothing more than sales and marketing experts who teach transplant coordinators to use high-pressure psychological tactics to play on the emotions of vulnerable family members. The suit alleges that employees who failed to make their quotas were fired.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/news/one-in-five-brain-dead-patients-still-alive-claims-lawsuit


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[Kimster]

The namecalling ends. Now. It's clear in our rules that namecalling of players in cases, or each other, is a rules violation. If I see any more namecalling in this thread, the poster gets to be on the outside looking in.

Zero tolerance from this point forward. :saber:

Everyone is safe.

However............

I'm adding two issues that need to be addressed.

No more personalizing. Time outs for this from now on. If someone is bugging you for some reason, use the alert feature and/or put the member on your ignore list. The modsnips are many and our mods are not editors. They are moderators.

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[Kimster]

I'm going to give the reins back to Harmony2 now. Be nice to her! I mean it! :nono: