Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#10

[Katody]

Massei states that - not knowing yet that the serious crime of murder had taken place - Filomena felt this was a petty robbery, and moved things and checked things. She may have rearranged things. Massei states that the photos are thus not representative of the real crime scene. He understands that Filomena was unaware and overcome with emotion when she altered the scene.

What do you think did she rearrange? Nothing about it in her testimony. She took her computer from the ground, that's about it.

BTW the quote you gave doesn't say what you wrote here. Are you sure you remember correctly?

 

[TorisMom003]

In order to see this, you have to dismiss the postal police and the court's belief that glass had been on top of things and that the room was staged. You have to take it on faith that Guede acted as a lone wolf, and actually entered the cottage through that window. Hendry has stamped this image into everyone's mind: Guede throwing the rock, climbing up and in. But the court ruled that that never happened.

The court is not infallible. The court can and does make wrong rulings and/or assumptions. The same can be said for the postal police or any human being at all no matter what their occupation is.

In order for one to believe that Guede was not a lone wolf then there must be evidence to support the fact that he had at least one accomplice. There is a significant lack of this evidence. Hendry has done no such thing as stamping anything into my mind, as I can and do think and look for myself. The problem is with the lack of evidence to prove that Guede did not act alone, one then goes into the entire tirade of how AK and RS simply did not behave in the manner that one thinks they should have. I suppose when the evidence is not there to convict then instead we should convict based on how we believe that an innocent person should or should not behave.

MOO

ETA: Unless the court has a recording of the crime, the guilty person under some aid to help them tell only the truth, or an eyewitness to the crime then the court can not without a shadow of doubt say that something (such as the break in) did or did not happen in the way that has been described.

 

[Monzoo]

It was reported by the postal police and appears in Massei.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html

Here is the link to the photo gallery at Injustice in Perugia. To me, most of the "clutter" looks to be from the amount of stuff in her room. The shelves and tabletops, other than the shelf near the window, do not look disturbed.

I realize that PLE decided that it was a staged break-in after they arrested AK, RS and PL, but I'm not sure that it was more than something "strange" before they found Meredith's body.

They certainly didn't document any of the supposed clues that led them to believe the break-in was staged. In my opinion, they came to that conclusion only after the arrest and tried to shoehorn the initial strangeness (that apparently nothing had been taken) into a belief that the break-in was staged. If they had waited until RG was in their sights, it wouldn't have even come up.

 

[Monzoo]

I actually have said I feel a partial clean up of prints was successful. There isn't a full trail of prints revealed by luminol, so do you think they just suck at mopping all the time or someone hopped around with stuff that reacts to luminol on one foot?

It's easy to visualize that RG wasn't in the bathroom because you want to say RS wasn't in there because his DNA wasn't there, yet you aren't willing to say the same can be true of RG. What's good for one isn't good for the other. Noted.

Sorry, going back again.

Is it your belief that the footprints in the hallway, found by luminol and with a negative TMB test, are an artifact left over after a partial clean up?

How exactly is that accomplished? That is, maintaining the shape of a footprint, with no tell-take marks of cleaning, right next to undisturbed shoe prints that are in Meredith's blood?

 

[Amber29]

I think it's correct to dismiss beliefs that may be erroneous in favor of hard photographic evidence. You're not saying the photos posted here are fake, are you?:seeya:

Online posters can comment on how normal Filomenas room looks, undisturbed and whatever else has been said to fit their story. Only Filomena herself knows what her room was like when she left.

She testified in detail about her computer being left upright, she found it laying down with glass on top of it. She described her room as turned upside down or something along those lines.

We don't all have to discount her testimony and say she doesn't know what her room was normally left like or how she left her shutters. She was not deemed as an unreliable witness, as she had no reason to lie.

The photographic evidence is not accurate because at the time they had no idea they were dealing with a murder investigation, only a simple possible B&E.

 

[Amber29]

Sorry, going back again.

Is it your belief that the footprints in the hallway, found by luminol and with a negative TMB test, are an artifact left over after a partial clean up?

How exactly is that accomplished? That is, maintaining the shape of a footprint, with no tell-take marks of cleaning, right next to undisturbed shoe prints that are in Meredith's blood?

Yes that's my belief.

I don't know for sure being some maybe couldn't be seen with the naked eye, I'd say it would be quite easy to not get every print. As I said I think it was partial successful/unsuccessful clean up.

I find it odd if they weren't left then and partial cleaned why it's not a full trail. Do you think the mopping is typically just bad and they leave random prints that would react to luminol with out being disturbed as you describe?

I also find it funny that AK felt the need to tell a bathmat boogie story to IMO account for any prints uncovered.

 

[TorisMom003]

Why is there only one foot footprint of Guede's leading from Meredith's room to the front door? Perhaps only one foot was wet with Meredith's blood? Can the same not be said for Amanda's footprints? Perhaps one foot was wet (or damp) and the other dryer when she walked barefoot down the hall.

I guess the next arguement will be that the clean up involved removing the left shoe print of Guede along with the naked to the eye footprints of Amanda. Perhaps they left the right shoe print for some other reason.

ETA: I might have the footprints backwards. It might have been Guede's left shoe print that was left behind.

 

[Katody]

Online posters can comment on how normal Filomenas room looks, undisturbed and whatever else has been said to fit their story. Only Filomena herself knows what her room was like when she left.

She testified in detail about her computer being left upright, she found it laying down with glass on top of it. She described her room as turned upside down or something along those lines.

We don't all have to discount her testimony and say she doesn't know what her room was normally left like or how she left her shutters. She was not deemed as an unreliable witness, as she had no reason to lie.

The photographic evidence is not accurate because at the time they had no idea they were dealing with a murder investigation, only a simple possible B&E.

I think the photo evidence is accurate enough and confirmed by Filomena's words. She says she took the laptop and that's pretty much this.

 

[TorisMom003]

Online posters can comment on how normal Filomenas room looks, undisturbed and whatever else has been said to fit their story. Only Filomena herself knows what her room was like when she left.

She testified in detail about her computer being left upright, she found it laying down with glass on top of it. She described her room as turned upside down or something along those lines.

We don't all have to discount her testimony and say she doesn't know what her room was normally left like or how she left her shutters. She was not deemed as an unreliable witness, as she had no reason to lie.

The photographic evidence is not accurate because at the time they had no idea they were dealing with a murder investigation, only a simple possible B&E.

The photographic evidence of Filomena's room was done after Meredith was found, yes? The photographs were not taken before then. So how is the photographic evidence of how Filomena's room looked not accurate?

 

[Katody]

Yes that's my belief.

I don't know for sure being some maybe couldn't be seen with the naked eye, I'd say it would be quite easy to not get every print. As I said I think it was partial successful/unsuccessful clean up.

I can't quite visualize the technique you think they used to clean the floor that made them miss so many prints. The corridor was not a large area. It's intuitive to just sweep the mop or rag from side to side methodically, covering the floor down the hallway.

 

[Amber29]

Why is there only one foot footprint of Guede's leading from Meredith's room to the front door? Perhaps only one foot was wet with Meredith's blood? Can the same not be said for Amanda's footprints? Perhaps one foot was wet (or damp) and the other dryer when she walked barefoot down the hall.

I guess the next arguement will be that the clean up involved removing the left shoe print of Guede along with the naked to the eye footprints of Amanda. Perhaps they left the right shoe print for some other reason.

ETA: I might have the footprints backwards. It might have been Guede's left shoe print that was left behind.

I would never argue that RGs right shoeprints were removed.

How do you suppose RG was standing when he locked Meredith's door, maybe holding his left foot off the ground? I guess he didn't wanna leave a print showing he stood in front of her door for some reason.

 

[SMK]

The photographic evidence of Filomena's room was done after Meredith was found, yes? The photographs were not taken before then. So how is the photographic evidence of how Filomena's room looked not accurate?

I said that the Massei court ruled it so; not I : pp 44-56/English translation.

 

[TorisMom003]

I can't quite visualize the technique you think they used to clean the floor that made them miss so many prints. The corridor was not a large area. It's intuitive to just sweep the mop or rag from side to side methodically, covering the floor down the hallway.

The footprints in luminol show that no cleaning was done. There is no swiping motion indicated in the luminol. The two attached thumbnails show the footprints when luminol was added. The last attached thumbnail shows a cleaned up crime scene that luminol was added to. You can tell the swiping motions in the thumbnail that is not of the cottage.

Links for the thumbnails:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-01.html
https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bc...es/forensic-programs-crime-scene-luminol.aspx

 

[Amber29]

The photographic evidence of Filomena's room was done after Meredith was found, yes? The photographs were not taken before then. So how is the photographic evidence of how Filomena's room looked not accurate?

Because Filomena disturbed the room before Meredith was found and before photos were taken. When the postal police thought they were dealing with a simple B&E. I'm sure had they known it was going to become a crime scene where a murder had taken place, nothing would've been touched.

 

[TorisMom003]

I would never argue that RGs right shoeprints were removed.

How do you suppose RG was standing when he locked Meredith's door, maybe holding his left foot off the ground? I guess he didn't wanna leave a print showing he stood in front of her door for some reason.

How do we know that he didn't leave the cottage without locking the door to Meredith's bedroom when his shoe was still wet with blood and then come back when his shoe was dry? As far as I know there is no evidence that says that Guede entered the cottage only once that night and did not return.

 

[TorisMom003]

Because Filomena disturbed the room before Meredith was found and before photos were taken. When the postal police thought they were dealing with a simple B&E. I'm sure had they known it was going to become a crime scene where a murder had taken place, nothing would've been touched.

So then Filomena may have moved clothes and other things around herself? Perhaps looking to see if anything had been stolen? So in reality the room may have been tossed more by Filomena herself in an innocent attempt to see what, if anything, was missing?

 

[Amber29]

I can't quite visualize the technique you think they used to clean the floor that made them miss so many prints. The corridor was not a large area. It's intuitive to just sweep the mop or rag from side to side methodically, covering the floor down the hallway.

IMO they were leaving evidence of the lone burglar. So why would they mop the entire floor? Same with the poo left in the toilet that AK made sure everyone knew about.

 

[Amber29]

How do we know that he didn't leave the cottage without locking the door to Meredith's bedroom when his shoe was still wet with blood and then come back when his shoe was dry? As far as I know there is no evidence that says that Guede entered the cottage only once that night and did not return.

Ok. Thanks

 

[Amber29]

So then Filomena may have moved clothes and other things around herself? Perhaps looking to see if anything had been stolen? So in reality the room may have been tossed more by Filomena herself in an innocent attempt to see what, if anything, was missing?

But most here are saying her room wasn't tossed. I think Katody said she believes the clothes fell out on their own when RG entered.

Anyhow I doubt Filomena added to the mess but she did have a look around for missing things.

 

[Amber29]

The footprints in luminol show that no cleaning was done. There is no swiping motion indicated in the luminol. The two attached thumbnails show the footprints when luminol was added. The last attached thumbnail shows a cleaned up crime scene that luminol was added to. You can tell the swiping motions in the thumbnail that is not of the cottage.

Links for the thumbnails:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-01.html
https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bc...es/forensic-programs-crime-scene-luminol.aspx

Except I don't think anyone here is asserting there was a large puddle of blood in the corridor that was mopped up. Just a few footprints.