Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#12

[Katody]

BBM - I think Otto makes a lot of sense, and I believe it's only incredible and leaves one speechless, if one is totally sold on the lone wolf theory.

Recall that when the murder scene was originally discovered, Batistelli of the Postal Police immediately said that he felt the point of entry had been staged, introducing the idea of the "inside job".

Adding to this , Napoleoni and Mignini felt the locked door and the duvet indicated the presence of a female, and that the idea of a staged burglary might point to the boys downstairs (remember that Rudy often brought them pot, and stayed for the party).

Ergo, when Guede's presence was discovered and Lumumba let go, it wasn't as though the investigators skipped the idea of the lone wolf "to save face". They hadn't believed in a lone wolf in the first place.

That's true that the investigators married to their theory before they had any solid evidence. it's true they suspected Amanda from the very beginning.

When the forensic results came, pointing to a person they never considered and more importantly, there were no forensic evidence at all of Amanda's presence in the room, it was time to reconsider the original theory.

This didn't happen and we see such pattern in many miscarriages of justice. Case of David Camm has many eerie similarities. They targeted the wrong person, close to the victims, they ignored evidence pointing to someone else, when it was no way out because the real killer, Boney, had been found, they said he worked 'in concert' with Camm.

 

[SMK]

I absolutely agree. Anyone that speaks more than one language, and who has used an electronic translation to check the accuracy, knows that the meaning is usually completely skewed. A simple, applicable example is the translation of the word "courtroom". We should all know by now that the electronic translation from Italian to English is "classroom". If that word is screwed up, I think it's fair to assume an awful lot of other words are equally screwed up. Crini is translated to "horsehair".

An electronic translation of "Crini in the courtroom" is "horse hair in the classroom" ... and from there on, it's complete mumbo jumbo.

:laugh: Back in November I read one of those Google auto-translates and I kept wondering, "If this "Horse Hair" is such a key prosecutor, how come I never heard of him??? :giggle: and yes, they are always "in the classroom", and Amanda "did the wheel" in the interrogation office, etc. :giggle:

 

[otto]

I believe even Amanda and RS could have come up with the idea of throwing a rock to break a window.

(from end of last thread)

I think it's very likely that Knox came up with the idea of throwing rocks to break the window, as she had prior history with rock throwing at the party she hosted in Seattle.

<modsnip>

http://www.tekjournalismuk.com/45/post/2014/01/exclusive-amanda-knox-admits-staging-burglary.html

 

[sherlockh]

No, he said time of death not more than 2-3 hours after meal.

Massei report:

bbm.

I understand the confusion because this is an error. First he says the stomach empties in 2-3 hours, but gastric emptying starts fairly quickly. Then he is supposed to have said that death occurred in 2-3 hours after eating. But the stomach was full so that makes no sense. Both can't be true. The first quote I gave was right. The stomach does start emptying fairly quickly.

http://humanbiology.wzw.tum.de/fileadmin/Bilder/tutorials/tutorial.pdf

 

[Tugela]

(from end of last thread)

I think it's very likely that Knox came up with the idea of throwing rocks to break the window, as she had prior history with rock throwing at the party she hosted in Seattle.

"The startlingly frank admission by Knox should also be seen in conjunction with the ticket she received for hosting a riotous party at the University of Washington. The party got out of hand, and guests were reported to the police for throwing rocks at passers-by."

http://www.tekjournalismuk.com/45/post/2014/01/exclusive-amanda-knox-admits-staging-burglary.html

That is a huge stretch.

 

[sherlockh]

Let me bring this over from the previous thread since it was ignored... We wouldn't want people saying Dr Lalli actually used the stomach contents for a TOD

He did not narrow the time to 9pm though..

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/download/file.php?id=1902

"while reaffirming that the emptying of the stomach generally occurs between two hours and a maximum of 4 hours after eating (page 62, hearing on April 3, 2009). He added, however, that the digestive process is influenced by many factors like the type of meal, cold, stress, physical conditions and so on, and that to his knowledge there were no reliable studies that could establish "by how much the digestive process can be changed by these factors"

"Dr. Lalli to place the time of death between 21 hours and 30 minutes and 30 hours and 30 minutes prior to the first testing, thus between 20:00 pm and 04:00 am on November 1, 2007 and November 2, 2007."

So really the digestive state did not force him to narrow the TOD. He did not even narrow it to a couple of hours.

Dr Lalli and Professor Introna also used a Gaussian curve that pointed to a TOD of 22:50 based on the average weight of someone of Meredith's height and build. For some reason they couldn't weigh the body so they had to estimate it. For an earlier TOD Meredith must have been several kilos overweight.

Massei report

This data, he observed, produced a curve, called a Gaussian curve, the middle of which indicated 22:50 pm as the most probable time of death, with a 95% tolerance level; the range had to be between 21 and a half to 30 and a half hours from the [time of] measurement: the time of death being thus circumscribed within a temporal region ranging from 18:20 pm on November 1, 2007 to 03:30 am on November 2, 2007 (page 16, Professor Introna’s report).

With all these ranges I can understand that the Supreme Court pointed out that to establish the TOD the court should listen to the witnesses who heard the scream. For example the testimony of Ms Monacchia was precise that she went to bed at 10pm. So TOD must have been sometime later.

SC report

But Ms Monacchia was even more precise on the time, and said that she went to bed about 10.00 PM, when after being asleep she was awakened by the noise of animated discussion between a man and a woman going by, along the little street adjacent to her window, and shortly after she heard a woman’s loud, sharp scream, coming from below, that is from via della Pergola.

Overall I think this court will stick with a TOD of around 11pm, give or take half an hour. JMO.

 

[otto]

That is a huge stretch.

I don't see it as any more of a huge stretch than to say:

Guede used a rock to break a window.
A window is broken with a rock.
Therefore, Guede broke the window.

Why not:

Knox hosted parties with rock throwing.
Someone threw a rock.
Therefore, Knox threw the rock.

 

[otto]

In the context of Knox's history of pranks, I remembered something from the Massei Report that kind of resonated all these years, and it relates to statements that Meredith may have been pushed, shoved, or independently moved into the blade of the knife. (The attached image also explains why she was not stabbed with the total length of the blade.)

If this was one of Knox's pranks gone wrong (in line with the prank on the roommate on April Fools Day that went wrong); perhaps a Halloween Prank that went wrong, then it could have gone from a prank to a very serious situation very quickly if, in the course of trying to traumatize Meredith for kicks, she was accidentally pushed, shoved, or fell into the blade. This possibility of is documented in the Massei Report (page numbers included).

 

[sherlockh]

In the context of Knox's history of pranks, I remembered something from the Massei Report that kind of resonated all these years, and it relates to statements that Meredith may have been pushed, shoved, or independently moved into the blade of the knife. (The attached image also explains why she was not stabbed with the total length of the blade.)

If this was one of Knox's pranks gone wrong (in line with the prank on the roommate on April Fools Day that went wrong); perhaps a Halloween Prank that went wrong, then it could have gone from a prank to a very serious situation very quickly if, in the course of trying to traumatize Meredith for kicks, she was accidentally pushed, shoved, or fell into the blade. This possibility of is documented in the Massei Report (page numbers included).

I don't think she 'fell' into the blade, but there are signs of strangulation. And what can you do when you can't breath? I believe in this struggle of Meredith to get some air, she was stabbed. It is speculation though. I don't think you can tell with certainty, but I would agree that the depth of the wound being half the length of the blade, and a single deadly stab wound does not really indicate any intention to kill Meredith. It remains impossible to say what went through the mind of the one causing that stab wound at that moment. All JMO.

 

[otto]

I don't think she 'fell' into the blade, but there are signs of strangulation. And what can you do when you can't breath? I believe in this struggle of Meredith to get some air, she was stabbed. It is speculation though. I don't think you can tell with certainty, but I would agree that the depth of the wound being half the length of the blade, and a single deadly stab wound does not really indicate any intention to kill Meredith. It remains impossible to say what went through the mind of the one causing that stab wound at that moment. All JMO.

I was reading about the strangulation today. It sounds like someone put hands over her mouth and nose, making it almost impossible to breath, and she struggled. The prosecution theory seems to be that it's possible that during that struggle she was pushed, or she moved into, a knife. This is only possible if there is more than one perpetrator. We have only two hands, but to cover her mouth and nose, wield a knife and stab her, and restrain her hands (no defensive wounds) ... does anyone know the angle of how she was stabbed with the large knife? Is there an autopsy illustration?

 

[otto]

Here is the link to a request to Knox via her PR Firm to answer Sixteen Questions. It's a good read.
http://grahamwphillips.com/2014/01/12/amanda-knox-exclusive-interview-questions/


<modsnip>

http://grahamwphillips.com/2014/01/12/amanda-knox-exclusive-interview-questions/

This link is one of the questions:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/454...l-out-over-housework-third-flatmate-says.html

 

[otto]

This is a good article to read. It has all sorts of interesting information. For example, it seems to say that Filomina and friends arrived before the Postal Police. When was the phone call to the Carabinieri made and when did Filomina arrive? Were Filomina and friends at the cottage when the Postal Police arrived ... I thought the pair was alone. So, when Filomina says that "by that time Italian Police Officers had arrived, the Carabinieri had arrived? I can't remember ... did the six witnesses and two Postal Police have to stand around waiting for the arrival of the Carabinieri?

"By then Miss Romanelli and other students had tried to enter Miss Kercher's bedroom but had found the door to be locked.

The court has heard that Miss Knox assured them that was normal, claiming that Meredith would often lock the door, even when she went for a shower.

But Miss Romanelli disputed this, saying Miss Kercher only locked her door when she left the house.

Eventually Miss Romanelli's boyfriend, Luca Altieri, decided to kick the door in.

By that time Italian police officers had arrived, having been alerted that something was wrong when two mobile phones belonging to Miss Kercher were found dumped in a nearby garden."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/454...l-out-over-housework-third-flatmate-says.html

 

[otto]

What does everyone make of the somewhat separation of Sollecito from Knox in defense closing statements? Bongiorno points out that her client is not mentioned in relation to Knox's slander statements, her client was not there, the prosecution has tunnel vision, the translator was incompetent, 45 days on the bra clasp means contamination is possible. She doesn't address the knife because she doesn't have to. That's evidence of Knox, and we know she was in his apartment.

Is it Maori that orates next? Do I have the name right? Is this another of Sollecito's lawyers? I think Sollecito's may be somewhat disappointed in his lawyer's court presentation (see latest Frank Svarzo article), where she was wielding knifes and being dramatic. Stereotypically, Italians are known for being dramatic, but not in a knife wielding way. She could have made her point without the acting.

Did Knox's lawyer close yet? Is that Maori?

 

[redheadedgal]

This is a good article to read.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/454...l-out-over-housework-third-flatmate-says.html

[modsnip]

sure, if one only wants to continue to believe in and spread lies. i count at least a 1/2 dozen...


didn't john kercher work for the telegraph?

 

[redheadedgal]

MichaelSmith: The mental gymnastics being performed here is incredible. Strange to me is someone getting a sex change operation not a teenager doing a harmless prank.

Rudy Guede was a burglar and unemployed criminal lowlife known for bothering girls and stealing their purses and was on a 6 week crime spree leading up to the murder including a b&e via second story window breaking it with a rock just like at the cottage.

That's ignored or excuses made for years and it's all irrelevant and him murdering Meredith on his own is just a "theory" even though his DNA was inside her, on her bra, bag, and clothes and his foot and handprints in her blood. When caught he said Amanda wasn't involved and some mystery Italian dude he could barely describe did it while he sat on the toilet.

But Amanda admits doing a prank with some friends like god knows how many school and college kids do growing up and hey presto...an absurd conspiracy theory has been proven and they teamed up with the virtual stranger to play a prank on a friend which somehow lead to her getting slaughtered and raped and then incredibly, staged as well to look exactly like Guede's MO while he went out dancing.

Good grief!

yep.

amanda's non-criminal april fool's prank is considered evidence of murder, while rudy's criminal burglaries are not... :banghead:

 

[MichaelSmith]

Here is the link to a request to Knox via her PR Firm to answer Sixteen Questions. It's a good read.
http://grahamwphillips.com/2014/01/12/amanda-knox-exclusive-interview-questions/

<modsnip>

http://grahamwphillips.com/2014/01/12/amanda-knox-exclusive-interview-questions/

This link is one of the questions:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/454...l-out-over-housework-third-flatmate-says.html

Something tells me he won't be hearing back from her anytime soon after sending these sort of tweets to her.

GrahamWPhillips &#8207;@BritinUkraine 30 Dec
@amamaknox Welcome to Twitter, you murdering *****. #amandaknox #meredithkercher


GrahamWPhillips &#8207;@BritinUkraine 30 Dec
@KrisArnason @justmart As anyone who knows Knox knows, she is devoid of any of the feelings we associate with humanity. So, typical Knox.

GrahamWPhillips &#8207;@BritinUkraine 4 Jan
@joe_starr Who needs innuendo?? @amamaknox is a murdering *advertiser censored*, pure and simple. #amandaknox


GrahamWPhillips &#8207;@BritinUkraine 4 Jan
@joe_starr @amamaknox Just saying it as it is Joe, why use fancy terms for scum like Knox? #amandaknox

https://twitter.com/BritinUkraine

 

[Katody]

Something tells me he won't be hearing back from her anytime soon after sending these sort of tweets to her.

GrahamWPhillips &#8207;@BritinUkraine 30 Dec
@amamaknox Welcome to Twitter, you murdering *****. #amandaknox #meredithkercher


GrahamWPhillips &#8207;@BritinUkraine 30 Dec
@KrisArnason @justmart As anyone who knows Knox knows, she is devoid of any of the feelings we associate with humanity. So, typical Knox.

GrahamWPhillips &#8207;@BritinUkraine 4 Jan
@joe_starr Who needs innuendo?? @amamaknox is a murdering *advertiser censored*, pure and simple. #amandaknox


GrahamWPhillips &#8207;@BritinUkraine 4 Jan
@joe_starr @amamaknox Just saying it as it is Joe, why use fancy terms for scum like Knox? #amandaknox

So, basically, a mentally unstable guy posing as journalist harasses Amanda.

Nothing new. Why is this news again?

 

[SMK]

I was reading about the strangulation today. It sounds like someone put hands over her mouth and nose, making it almost impossible to breath, and she struggled. The prosecution theory seems to be that it's possible that during that struggle she was pushed, or she moved into, a knife. This is only possible if there is more than one perpetrator. We have only two hands, but to cover her mouth and nose, wield a knife and stab her, and restrain her hands (no defensive wounds) ... does anyone know the angle of how she was stabbed with the large knife? Is there an autopsy illustration?

There was an illustration showing the deadly wound (a drawing graphic) which I saw recently - will try and find it.

What struck me as odd is that the position of the wound did not look like what you would aim at if you were deliberately trying to slash someone's throat. It was positioned under the chin and jaw, toward the left ear, and up high, not down on the throat where you would cut if aiming to cut someone's throat - really seemed like this to me.

Will try and find it (it was a Hendry picture). ETA: here it is : see thumbnail

 

[Katody]

I understand the confusion because this is an error. First he says the stomach empties in 2-3 hours, but gastric emptying starts fairly quickly. Then he is supposed to have said that death occurred in 2-3 hours after eating.

What do you mean by this "supposed"? It is what he testified, he said at most 2-3 hours.

It happens that the forensic pathology literature agrees with that, as the quotes I gave in previous thread prove. Start of gastric emptying may be delayed on rare occasions, that's why 2-3 hours after meal is the reasonable limit forensic literature agrees upon.

2-3 hours since the pizza meal matches best 9pm, the moment Meredith came home and was ambushed by the burglar Guede.

 

[Katody]

There was an illustration showing the deadly wound (a drawing graphic) which I saw recently - will try and find it.

What struck me as odd is that the position of the wound did not look like what you would aim at if you were deliberately trying to slash someone's throat. It was positioned under the chin and jaw, toward the left ear, and up high, not down on the throat where you would cut if aiming to cut someone's throat - really seemed like this to me.

Will try and find it (it was a Hendry picture). ETA: here it is : see thumbnail

It's a good observation. The reason that comes to mind is that the short 8cm switchblade Guede used was not really suitable for slashing, but perfect for stabbing. The main wound consists of multiple full depth stabbing/sawing motions into the same opening.