Amanda Knox found guilty for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy #15

[Linda7NJ]

Yes. So I find it ridiculous that people use the kitchen knife in their reasoning for why Knox and Sollecito are guilty. I find it strange that many of the people who claim they are guilty BARD never mention the incompetence of the police.

First, they were required to record Knox's interrogation but did not, so all we have to go on is their word. The investigators had tested the luminol footprints for blood and found them lacking, a truth carefully hidden from December 17, 2007 (when they were collected) until September 2009, when defense expert Sarah Gino outed the negative test during the trial that led to Knox and Sollecito’s conviction. Even now “bloody footprints” are the Knox case’s most persistent urban legend. Honestly, that is grounds to have the case thrown out and clearly corrupt.

At any rate, after going through many sources last night, I chalk this up as a witch hunt and I am even less convinced that Knox and Sollecito were complicit. I do not even think the courts really believe that they are guilty since they are not making any moves to lock Sollecito up and you think they would if they actually believed he and Knox stabbed Meredith over complaints of a messy room or a sex-game-gone-wrong.

Here's the beauty of the Italian system as I see it. It's not enough to claim the footprints aren't blood.
One must also use logic and reason to come up with another alternative plausible explanation. Were the footprints glowing from luminol because Amanda had a mashed horseradish foot mask on her feet that night or morning? No. And no other reasonable conclusion can be made. It was blood, attempts were made to remove that evidence. It's a sound reasonable conclusion to draw because it's the ONLY ONE that makes sense.



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[ashleigh_schwartz]

Here's the beauty of the Italian system as I see it. It's not enough to claim the footprints aren't blood.
One must also use logic and reason to come up with another alternative plausible explanation. Were the footprints glowing from luminol because Amanda had a mashed horseradish foot mask on her feet that night or morning? No. And no other reasonable conclusion can be made. It was blood, attempts were made to remove that evidence. It's a sound reasonable conclusion to draw because it's the ONLY ONE that makes sense.



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Oh, this is more speculation without proof. That is not "beauty" unless you consider "beauty" to be convicting people on pure speculation without concrete evidence.

The test was negative, but it was theirs anyway is what you are arguing. And now she had on a foot mask? This is to the point where people are making up stuff as they go and delving into conspiracy.

 

[redheadedgal]

i am [canadian]... relevance?

bumping my question

I'm baffled that some would blame the police for putting Patrick in jail. When someone accuses another person of such a heinous crime of course that person would be arrested.

IMO, the primary duty of a police force is to protect the community. I think some may have forgotten what a horrendous crime this was.

yet RS is a heinous killer, right? why was he not immediately arrested and thrown back into jail on the 30th, being such a threat to society, after a murder conviction no less? especially since PL was considered the same and immediately arrested and thrown into jail [with no real evidence against him]?

seems italy has a hard time deciding "danger to society" :jail:

She was not a suspect when she first went in for questioning. She was unknown to investigators other than she was a roommate of the victim and was at the cottage when they arrived.

she and RS were immediately thought to be involved b/c of the way they were behaving at the cottage that first day. this is a well known fact.

interestingly, even before the first trial, a picture of AK was hung in the perugia police station amongst a gallery of the worst mobsters and killers... so there was very clearly a very early strong bias against knox being innocent.

Yes, I agree, Nina Burleigh wrote an article today on cnn.com saying essentially the same thing, that this was just a run of the mill robbery gone wrong, a very sad but still all too common crime in our society.

I would venture to guess that almost every day in the US someone breaks into a home and rapes a women, sometimes even killing her. It is something that every single girl living alone fears. And it is likely what happened in this case.

I am not sure why there was an effort to make this case exceptional....If AK returned to WA or even to Germany after the crime, we would not be discussing this case now. RG would be rotting in jail and we would not have had this circus.

Perceived irregularities in AK's behavior made them suspicious. And I think her not being in Italy for this trial doomed her before it even started, indeed the judge already commented adversely on RS not being subject to cross exam. Her not being in Italy for this retrial really hurt her in the jury's eyes. It will be interesting to see what the US does when it comes to extradiction. Unless the court relies on DNA evidence, I expect the Supreme Court will affirm. The Supreme Court may only overturn if the verdict is based on DNA because they won't want to make Italy look like fools for relying on discredited techniques to convict people.

burleigh's interview: Nina Burleigh talks to BBC about Amanda Knox - YouTube

article about nencini's unacceptable remarks: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/02/amanda-knox-judge-raffaele-sollecito-lawyers-remarks

 

[Linda7NJ]

Oh, this is more speculation without proof. That is not "beauty" unless you consider "beauty" to be convicting people on pure speculation without concrete evidence.

The test was negative, but it was theirs anyway is what you are arguing.

I'm arguing her BLOODY footprints had been in that hallway. She cleaned up the hallway. The luminol still reacted.

What is your argument for her footprints glowing with luminol? If you can come up with one REASONABLE alternate scenario...I'll be thrilled to consider it.




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[ashleigh_schwartz]

bumping my question






yet RS is a heinous killer, right? why was he not immediately arrested and thrown back into jail on the 30th, being such a threat to society, after a murder conviction no less? especially since PL was considered the same and immediately arrested and thrown into jail [with no real evidence against him]?

seems italy has a hard time deciding "danger to society" :jail:




she and RS were immediately thought to be involved b/c of the way they were behaving at the cottage that first day. this is a well known fact.

interestingly, even before the first trial, a picture of AK was hung in the perugia police station amongst a gallery of convicted/captured mobsters... so there was very clearly a very early strong bias against knox being innocent.




burleigh's interview: Nina Burleigh talks to BBC about Amanda Knox - YouTube

article about nencini's unacceptable remarks: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/02/amanda-knox-judge-raffaele-sollecito-lawyers-remarks

You would think they would lock RS up immediately if they actually believed he and AK brutally murdered Meredith over something as silly as a complaint of a messy room. That's a grade A psycho and certainly a danger to society.

 

[ashleigh_schwartz]

I'm arguing her BLOODY footprints had been in that hallway. She cleaned up the hallway. The luminol still reacted.

What is your argument for her footprints glowing with luminol? If you can come up with one REASONABLE alternate scenario...I'll be thrilled to consider it.




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The footprints were never proven to be hers in the first place. So your argument is baseless.

But sure, I will buy that Knox is a criminal mastermind who bought foot masks and cleaned the entire hallway but somehow Guede's footprints were still in the hallway and bedroom.

 

[Linda7NJ]

i am... relevance?

Thank you for answering my question.


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[redheadedgal]

the photo of amanda was actually hung even before they were charged -- wow :banghead:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amanda-...i-wants-to-put-american-student-away-forever/

 

[Linda7NJ]

The footprints were never proven to be hers in the first place. So your argument is baseless.

Ummmm iirc she's been found guilty twice. I strongly believe her conviction will be confirmed. That's Been proven to me.
So luminol reacts to footprints mere feet from a bloody murder scene,complete with the body...bloody footsteps are found in the hallway...we clearly see Rudy's..they go straight out the door.
Amanda's are in the hallway and in another room where the break in was staged.
But you would like me to believe they got there...HOW? Who would you like me to believe they belong to?


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[Linda7NJ]

The footprints were never proven to be hers in the first place. So your argument is baseless.

But sure, I will buy that Knox is a criminal mastermind who bought foot masks and cleaned the entire hallway but somehow Guede's footprints were still in the hallway and bedroom.

You seem to be lost on the foot mask thing.
It was sarcasm based on what other substances react to luminol. Beat pulp, horseradish, cooper rich soil, rust...


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[ashleigh_schwartz]

Ummmm iirc she's been found guilty twice. I strongly believe her conviction will be confirmed. That's Been proven to me.
So luminol reacts to footprints mere feet from a bloody murder scene,complete with the body...bloody footsteps are found in the hallway...we clearly see Rudy's..they go straight out the door.
Amanda's are in the hallway and in another room where the break in was staged.
But you would like me to believe they got there...HOW? Who would you like me to believe they belong to?


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Her conviction is not proof the footprints were hers. They even said that the tests were negative. Ugh. I am not even going to argue this anymore.

 

[Linda7NJ]

the photo of amanda was actually hung even before they were charged -- wow :banghead:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amanda-...i-wants-to-put-american-student-away-forever/

I'd imagine her ridiculous, ever changing tales made her a prime suspect within hours.

That's just police work 101.


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[ashleigh_schwartz]

You seem to be lost on the foot mask thing.
It was sarcasm based on what other substances react to luminol. Beat pulp, horseradish, cooper rich soil, rust...


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I didn't note the sarcasm. I thought you were being serious because you seem hellbent on them being Amanda's despite no proof. There isn't even DNA that places Knox and Sollecito in the hallway, but there is for Rudy.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Her conviction is not proof the footprints were hers. They even said that the tests were negative. Ugh. I am not even going to argue this anymore.

IMO it's a losing argument.
There is no other plausible explanation.


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[Linda7NJ]

I didn't note the sarcasm. I thought you were being serious because you seem hellbent on them being Amanda's despite no proof. There isn't even DNA that places Knox and Sollecito in the hallway, but there is for Rudy.

I'm just trying to clear it up for you. I didn't want you to misunderstand me.



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[BritsKate]

Yes, I wonder what the process is. In the US, you can appeal through the state system, then you can try to get relied through the federal courts if there is a constitutional violation.

After the Supreme Court, are there any further appeals in Italy? Or is it just the European Court of justice?

I certainly don't want to help the Italian courts convict her but I think if they rely on that DNA evidence she will have a strong case in the European courts as well as in fighting extradiction in a US court. If they rely on DNA that is discredited by the intl community, I don't think the European court of justice can let that stand. Saying that knife is the murder weapon when it does not match the wound and where the DNA is below intl standards is just a joke.

However, if they rely on it more as a circumstantial case it will be harder to get the European courts involved. I think the prosecutor knows this bc it seems like they were distancing themselves from the DNA and relying on this more as a circumstantial case. I don't think she would have much a case on appeal if they make it out as a circumstantial case bc discretion is left to the fact finder. There is not much legally the upper courts can do.

But as I said, basing a verdict on DNA evidence gathered by techniques discredited by the intl community is another matter. The knife is probably a stronger argument than the bra because it is a clearer standard on what is or is not considered appropriate whereas dirty collection techniques is much more a matter of opinion.

AFAIK, the Supreme Court will be the final ruling. The ECJ is not a court of appeals for decisions on a national level and can neither modify or set aside rulings made by a national court unless there is an egregious legal error in interpreting EU law - such as human rights, taxation or free movement.

It is highly unlikely any remedy could be found (in the form of an appeal) via the European courts, IMO, as most member states pass national legislation to be compliant within the parameters of EU law.

JMO and FWIW

 

[Linda7NJ]

I didn't note the sarcasm. I thought you were being serious because you seem hellbent on them being Amanda's despite no proof. There isn't even DNA that places Knox and Sollecito in the hallway, but there is for Rudy.

Why would I want or need DNA to place her in the hallway?


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[ashleigh_schwartz]

IMO it's a losing argument.
There is no other plausible explanation.


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It's really not a losing argument. There isn't any evidence that implicates AK and RS being in the hallway. At the trial, it was stated that the tests were negative. If AK cleaned the hallway and was an accomplice of RG, why would RG allow her to leave his footprints? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Linda7NJ]

the photo of amanda was actually hung even before they were charged -- wow :banghead:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amanda-...i-wants-to-put-american-student-away-forever/

I can not believe that. I find it hard to believe it took the 8 months (stated in the article) to charge her.

Unless they are using the term "charge" in a way I am unfamiliar with.


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[Linda7NJ]

It's really not a losing argument. There isn't any evidence that implicates AK and RS being in the hallway. At the trial, it was stated that the tests were negative. If AK cleaned the hallway and was an accomplice of RG, why would RG allow her to leave his footprints? That doesn't make any sense.

IMO Rudy bolted...straight out the door from the bedroom. He never went into the bathroom Knox shared with Meredith. IMO I do not believe Rudy hung around and helped with the staging.


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