JAR's semen on the blanket in a suitcase in the basement

[DeDee]

DeDee,

Much of what they said was contradicted by themselves on multiple occassions.

Who said anything about JR. Maybe reading from that specific book was part of a prior staging, which was abandoned once they realized they would be arrested?

Who knows what the facts are, maybe it was JAR's, but its use in the crime either as staging or commission meant it had to be removed?

That night 12/25/1996 and some recent previous day due to the healing of prior injuries.

JR might have whacked JOnBenet on the head fully intending to kill her, this after BR allegedly molested and constricted JonBenet's vagus nerve resulting in her falling into a coma, later PR finishes JonBenet off with the ligature? These separate events explain the time gap and her injuries.

Absolutely nothing. JonBenet was denied medical assistance, someone wanted her dead!

Well its either write the RN or offer some other explanation why JonBenet has been sexually assaulted and ligature strangled to death, with no apparent evidence of an intruder.

Whatever requires reconciliation does not detract from the facts, which all point to Ramsey collusion in the commission of JonBenet's death and subsequent staging, even BR is implicated via touch-dna and his revision regarding whether he was asleep that morning or present at the 911 call?


That would suggest premediatation, anyway there was more than one attempt made to author the RN.

.

UKGuy,

Much of what they said was contradicted by themselves on multiple occassions.

Indeed, their intention was to be vague. Or claim they couldn't recall details because so much time had elapsed. When Patsy implicated PW by stating they had identical or quite similar sweaters, and that perhaps she got chilled and put on PW's sweater at Christmas dinner, her purpose became clear. When Patsy stated her housekeeper had recently asked for a loan, she was implicating a lady who loved Patsy. On and on...they gave LE leads on so many people, their friends, with the exception of the Stine's.

Who said anything about JR. Maybe reading from that specific book was part of a prior staging, which was abandoned once they realized they would be arrested?

Well, alright. Not JR but his son, 9yo BR. He uses the incest kit stored in the Samsonite and then lugs the 7 pound suitcase down to the basement. And looks through a collection of photographs of his sister to excite himself. JonBenet was afraid of the dark. Would she go into the dark basement, late at night, with a maglight while the parents slept?

Or maybe Patsy took the Samsonite to the basement to implicate JAR.

JR might have whacked JOnBenet on the head fully intending to kill her, this after BR allegedly molested and constricted JonBenet's vagus nerve resulting in her falling into a coma, later PR finishes JonBenet off with the ligature? These separate events explain the time gap and her injuries.

So, BR molests his sister then constricts the vagus nerve in her neck. JB passes out. BR tells his parents bc she won't wake up. JR knocks a hole in JB's head. Patsy strangles her daughter. One of the three suspects jams a paint brush inside JonBenet bc they are trying to kill her.

Not unlike Tricia, I find it difficult to believe BR could muster the strength required for the head blow. Or the knowledge for constructing a garrote. OTOH, Patsy could have inflicted all of the injuries.

That night 12/25/1996 and some recent previous day due to the healing of prior injuries.

OK. Then, the abuse took place twice including the evening of the 25th. Why did he constrict her vagus nerve? Were they playing that pass out game?

That would suggest premediatation, anyway there was more than one attempt made to author the RN.

Precisely, it would suggest premeditation if Patsy had prepared the RN in advance of the crime. And nothing prevents us from supposing the RN could have been drafted days earlier.

 

[DeDee]

Why do you think that note had to have been written immediately after JonBenet's death?

Can we agree, for the sake of this point, that the baby is dead by 1:00, the police are called just before 6:00. That's five hours to do the staging and write the RN twice. Someone guessed it took 45 minutes to draft the final copy and perhaps as much as two hours on the first draft.

A hysterical, grieving mother sits down and pens nearly 3 pages of a RN that takes nearly three hours to complete after she brutally murders her child. And her husband and son help her kill JonBenet.

Good ole Southern common sense tells me the RN was already written.

BTW ~ Fabulous sig, icedtea4me.

 

[Chelly]

Can we agree, for the sake of this point, that the baby is dead by 1:00, the police are called just before 6:00. That's five hours to do the staging and write the RN twice. Someone guessed it took 45 minutes to draft the final copy and perhaps as much as two hours on the first draft.

A hysterical, grieving mother sits down and pens nearly 3 pages of a RN that takes nearly three hours to complete after she brutally murders her child. And her husband and son help her kill JonBenet.

Good ole Southern common sense tells me the RN was already written.

BTW ~ Fabulous sig, icedtea4me.

I think PR's self-preservation instinct was a good deal stronger than her grief. In my opinion, PR was a woman who would do what needed to be done. I can earily imagine PR pulling herself together to write the RN. At this point, JBR was gone and it was all about PR from now on.

 

[rachaellouise]

I so wish PR was alive to be questioned again, years later. Also wish JR and other main players would be interviewed again.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,



Indeed, their intention was to be vague. Or claim they couldn't recall details because so much time had elapsed. When Patsy implicated PW by stating they had identical or quite similar sweaters, and that perhaps she got chilled and put on PW's sweater at Christmas dinner, her purpose became clear. When Patsy stated her housekeeper had recently asked for a loan, she was implicating a lady who loved Patsy. On and on...they gave LE leads on so many people, their friends, with the exception of the Stine's.



Well, alright. Not JR but his son, 9yo BR. He uses the incest kit stored in the Samsonite and then lugs the 7 pound suitcase down to the basement. And looks through a collection of photographs of his sister to excite himself. JonBenet was afraid of the dark. Would she go into the dark basement, late at night, with a maglight while the parents slept?

Or maybe Patsy took the Samsonite to the basement to implicate JAR.



So, BR molests his sister then constricts the vagus nerve in her neck. JB passes out. BR tells his parents bc she won't wake up. JR knocks a hole in JB's head. Patsy strangles her daughter. One of the three suspects jams a paint brush inside JonBenet bc they are trying to kill her.

Not unlike Tricia, I find it difficult to believe BR could muster the strength required for the head blow. Or the knowledge for constructing a garrote. OTOH, Patsy could have inflicted all of the injuries.



OK. Then, the abuse took place twice including the evening of the 25th. Why did he constrict her vagus nerve? Were they playing that pass out game?



Precisely, it would suggest premeditation if Patsy had prepared the RN in advance of the crime. And nothing prevents us from supposing the RN could have been drafted days earlier.

DeDee,

Well, alright. Not JR but his son, 9yo BR. He uses the incest kit stored in the Samsonite and then lugs the 7 pound suitcase down to the basement. And looks through a collection of photographs of his sister to excite himself. JonBenet was afraid of the dark. Would she go into the dark basement, late at night, with a maglight while the parents slept?

Or maybe Patsy took the Samsonite to the basement to implicate JAR.

It might be a misnomer to consider the case contents part of an incest kit. It might simply be staging from either the original crime-scene or one staged previously?

OK. Then, the abuse took place twice including the evening of the 25th. Why did he constrict her vagus nerve? Were they playing that pass out game?

He may have simply been attempting to prevent JonBenet from crying out, possibly JR or PR were close by? He may have, as is common in assaults, physically assaulted JonBenet then used an arm-lock to prevent her leaving, but over doing it due his youth, thus resulting in JonBenet lapsing into unconciousness and finally coma?

.

 

[DeeDee249]

I so wish PR was alive to be questioned again, years later. Also wish JR and other main players would be interviewed again.

I agree, but keep in mind that NO ONE can be compelled to speak to police or submit to questioning, even someone who has been arrested. "You have the right to remain silent, etc".
Police wanted to interview BR again- he refused, and his lawyer Lin Wood issued a statement that he had "nothing further to say".
Only a Grand Jury can subpoena someone and compel them to testify, but even then, a person can always "take the 5th" and refuse to answer.
I doubt we will ever see any family member talk to police willingly. Had this case gone to trial, even then the family's lawyers may have refused to allow them to testify. They might have been present, but might never have been on the witness stand.

 

[icedtea4me]

Can we agree, for the sake of this point, that the baby is dead by 1:00, the police are called just before 6:00. That's five hours to do the staging and write the RN twice. Someone guessed it took 45 minutes to draft the final copy and perhaps as much as two hours on the first draft.

A hysterical, grieving mother sits down and pens nearly 3 pages of a RN that takes nearly three hours to complete after she brutally murders her child. And her husband and son help her kill JonBenet.

Good ole Southern common sense tells me the RN was already written.

BTW ~ Fabulous sig, icedtea4me.

Why would the final copy contain two misspelled words, two scribbled-out words, and a proofreader's caret to insert another word?

 

[DeDee]

Why would the final copy contain two misspelled words, two scribbled-out words, and a proofreader's caret to insert another word?

The author of the RN was not perfect. She was writing with a permanent marker. Also, it has been speculated the misspelled words were intentional. The other "mistakes" could be Patsy attempting to dupe LE since she obviously felt she could outwit most and especially since she would never make those careless errors nor use such technical terms as electronic and monitor.

From the RN:

"If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a earlier pickup of your daughter."

The "a earlier pickup" is incorrect and should be "an earlier pickup".

Hence is a transitional word that does not require the word and for the conjunction. However, using it does require commas:
"an earlier delivery of the money, hence, an earlier pickup"

From the Ramsey Letter Christmas 1997:

" A Christmas Message from the Ramsey Family

With the Christmas season upon us and the anniversary of JonBenet's death approaching, we are filled with many emotions. We, as a family, miss JonBenet's presence among us as we see the lights, hear the music, and recall celebrations of Christmases past. We miss her every day - not just today.

On the one hand, we feel like Christmas should be canceled. Where is there joy? Our Christmas is forever tainted with the tragedy of her death. And yet the message rings clear. Had there been no birth of Christ, there would be no hope of eternal life, and hence, no hope of ever being with our loved ones again.

As the day of the birth of our Lord and Savior approaches, we thank all across the nation and around the world for your continued prayers of concern and support. It is those prayers that sustain us. We ask that as you gather with your families and loved ones this Christmas, be joyful in the celebration of the birthday of Christ, knowing that this is truly the reason for the season. We must continue to celebrate the birth of Christ...for our hope of life together ever after.

Thank you for all you meant to her and mean to us.

With blessing and prayer for a Joyful Holiday and the Grace of God's ever present love for the New Year,

John, Patsy, John Andrew, Melinda, and Burke"

http://jfjbr.tripod.com/truth/xmas97.html

 

[Anyhoo]

Can we agree, for the sake of this point, that the baby is dead by 1:00, the police are called just before 6:00. That's five hours to do the staging and write the RN twice. Someone guessed it took 45 minutes to draft the final copy and perhaps as much as two hours on the first draft.

A hysterical, grieving mother sits down and pens nearly 3 pages of a RN that takes nearly three hours to complete after she brutally murders her child. And her husband and son help her kill JonBenet.

Good ole Southern common sense tells me the RN was already written.

BTW ~ Fabulous sig, icedtea4me.

Is anyone seriously suggesting PR JR and BR killed JB together? If so I'd like to hear more about that. I'd never even considered that before but if a motive could be found it somehow fits the aftermath. It's like all three of them know what happened, are involved, and are keeping it a secret together. There are no innocent parties here.

 

[Anyhoo]

The blue suitcase has always been a little odd. I personally never thought it had anything to do with the actual case. The contents are what? The blanket with seman, a pillow sham and a Cat In The Hat Book. Years ago, a theory surfaced that this book could possibly be used by a pedophile. I sort of poo pooed the idea myself. But it's an old suitcase, found in the basement. To me, it made more sense that it was down there for storage. After all, John Andrew had his own bedroom, and it's never been said that "the suitcase" was supposed to be anywhere other than where it was found.

And even though John Andrew had a room at his dad's home, he actually lived with his mother in Florida, I do believe.

If the suitcase was put there deliberately it most definately points to an inside job. How in the world would an intruder know that John Andrews seman is on the blanket? Which leads to the question - if it was put there as staging - was it the first thing they grabbed to sit under the window? Or did they know something more sinister about that suitcase and set it there deliberately?

So there are two scenerios. An intruder just happened to grap it and set it under the window to help him/herself back out of the house. Or it was staging by someone in the house and they either knew or didn't know it's contents.

After reading so much on this case throughout the years I think it was staging and it's contents were known.

It was John Ramsey, not Patsy Ramsey that wanted to go to Michigan to celebrate Christmas with his kids. Patsy was trying to pack summer clothes for their trip on the big RED Boat - to celebrate her birthday. The Michigan home had winter clothes in it - so no need to pack much there.

I just don't get why the kids didn't just come up to Boulder Christmas Day. With so much to do - had it been me, I would have said 'honey this is a bit much with the boat trip and JonBenets next pageant coming up so soon. this house is completely decorated just have john and melinda come here and open gifts'

But now. What John wants - John apparently gets. The dynamics between John and Patsy were not perfect. Most wives know their husbands financial affiars, including their bonus. According to Patsy she didn't.

Was a bible opened to a certain passage in the den? How about a dictionary opened to the word incest?

Maybe Patsy stopped something right in it's tracks because she felt she had to.

I think it was deliberate staging by someone in the house. Here is how I see it. Someone very smart used this and many other staged clues to point LE in a million different directions, to people within the family and people outside the family. I don't think this was done by panicked parents who didn't know what to do. This was done by someone smart who did know what to do. This kind of staging, when you examine it now, is rather brilliant. To think that someone just thought of all this in a couple of hours does not sound right to me. It sounds like this was more well planned in advance, and someone had thought about all his staging. That person is JR, IMO. He is the only person smart enough and shrewd enough to have done this.

 

[Venom]

I think it was deliberate staging by someone in the house. Here is how I see it. Someone very smart used this and many other staged clues to point LE in a million different directions, to people within the family and people outside the family. I don't think this was done by panicked parents who didn't know what to do. This was done by someone smart who did know what to do. This kind of staging, when you examine it now, is rather brilliant. To think that someone just thought of all this in a couple of hours does not sound right to me. It sounds like this was more well planned in advance, and someone had thought about all his staging. That person is JR, IMO. He is the only person smart enough and shrewd enough to have done this.

How did he get the ransom note? Who do you think wrote it? I understand what you mean by him doing the staging, but I can't explain the note...it's not in his handwriting?

 

[Anyhoo]

How did he get the ransom note? Who do you think wrote it? I understand what you mean by him doing the staging, but I can't explain the note...it's not in his handwriting?

I believe PR wrote the ransom note. I believe she helped with the staging, but under the direction of JR. JR was the staging mastermind in all of this, and PR assisted him because she believed it was in her best interest to assist him. This does not tell us who murdered JB but we can deduce some things from it to tell us who did and also who did not. But that suitcase with the blanket and the children's book in the basement near where the body was found shows a shrewd intelligent MALE mind who is doing everything he can to confuse LE and hide the truth.

EDIT: It Indicates PR killed her daughter (unintentionally) and then JR helped his distraught, very emotional wife avoid punishment. (this just came to me like a bolt out of the blue when I thought about JR staging the suitcase).

 

[DeDee]

I think it was deliberate staging by someone in the house. Here is how I see it. Someone very smart used this and many other staged clues to point LE in a million different directions, to people within the family and people outside the family. I don't think this was done by panicked parents who didn't know what to do. This was done by someone smart who did know what to do. This kind of staging, when you examine it now, is rather brilliant. To think that someone just thought of all this in a couple of hours does not sound right to me. It sounds like this was more well planned in advance, and someone had thought about all his staging. That person is JR, IMO. He is the only person smart enough and shrewd enough to have done this.

I don't think this was done by panicked parents who didn't know what to do. This was done by someone smart who did know what to do. This kind of staging, when you examine it now, is rather brilliant.

Indeed, the murderer brilliantly outwitted the investigators with a fake kidnapping, the two causes of death, the sexual assault and the macabre staging.

Is anyone seriously suggesting PR JR and BR killed JB together? If so I'd like to hear more about that. I'd never even considered that before but if a motive could be found it somehow fits the aftermath. It's like all three of them know what happened, are involved, and are keeping it a secret together. There are no innocent parties here.

Is anyone seriously suggesting PR JR and BR killed JB together?

After JK's book was released, many sleuths rolled off the fence to land on the side of BDI. Only BR requires his parents' assistance. IE, garrote, redressing in the size 12s, the Ransom Note, etc.

John could not do it all. One reason is because Patsy's sweater fibers are found tied in the nylon cord and an ancillary hair from Patsy was discovered on the white blanket. Secondly, JR did not know there was a package of size twelve panties in the basement wrapped in a package intended for a niece. Thirdly, Patsy wrote the RN.

After almost fifteen years of hoping an IDI, the evidence, the interviews, the books have found me convinced the mother premeditated the death of her child. Hence, John was not involved until after the police had been called. Yes, indeed. Patsy could have done it all.

 

[borndem]

Why would you give him a welcome when the op was from August of 2006? Just wondering:slap:hoh:

I was doing some catching up on this thread & although I knew my welcome was just a bit late facepalm: ), I thought I would welcome him anyway.

 

[Venom]

I was doing some catching up on this thread & although I knew my welcome was just a bit late facepalm: ), I thought I would welcome him anyway.

A welcome is better late then never.

 

[DeDee]

DeDee,
I do not believe JR's explanation at all. How about the suitcase being loaded with forensic evidence from upstairs and used to carry it down to the basement, including the collection of JonBenet photos?

Its possible that the semen stain is incidental, from a prior period in time. And that the Dr Seuss book actually belonged to JonBenet?
Remember JR's version of events where he read a story to JonBenet at her bedtime?

How about that being JR's version of events before they moved onto an abduction. Patsy had similar mistakes in her version of events, e.g. red turtleneck.

.

BBM



Noooo. The Dr. Seuss book was for adults. Not children.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertai.../dr-seusss-little-known-book-of-nudes/253891/

"It had the adult Dr. Seuss book in it."

 

[Meara]

BBM



Noooo. The Dr. Seuss book was for adults. Not children.

"It had the adult Dr. Seuss book in it."

I'm.....but who?.....that's just......wow. Great catch, DeDee! :thumb:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Ah...this makes much more sense. Thanks, DeeDee.

 

[Anyhoo]

I'm.....but who?.....that's just......wow. Great catch, DeDee! :thumb:

Just when I thought this case couldn't get any stranger... Where does a transcript say it had the adult Dr Suess book in it, or is this not meant to be serious? If this is serious, I find it even more bizarre than if it were an actual children's book in the suitcase, and the potential for this book to be used as a grooming tool for a child (JB) would be much greater in that case. f this not serious, I don't appreciate the attempt at interjection of humor into what I consider a very serious case.

 

[Anyhoo]

I guess I was never aware before now that fibers from two different items inside of the suitcase were found on the shirt that JB was wearing when she was killed. Does anyone else find that not incredibly significant to this case? Those fibers indicate to me that JB was in contact with those items on the night she died. And what about the Dr. Seuss book found in the same suitcase? Who can deny that this suitcase is significant to the murder? What are your thoughts about that?