Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #47

[BreakingNews]

MarlyWings, at the pre-trial hearing last week, I could not believe how long and boring this was with the Judge and barristers yakking away in their own special language. Getting to the point is not strong on their agenda. I know it is debating legal issues, but surely it doesn't take 2 hours of legal debate to decide if the media need to be gagged or not! Bring on Court overhaul.

 

[BreakingNews]

I think we can gain some insight into what might occur at GBC's trial by watching the Morcombe trial. First day yesterday - took all day to select the jury. 15 selected; 12 actual jurors and a few spares for unforseen circumstances. I'm guessing they were all questioned about their ability to be impartial.

Today is the opening addresses by defence and crown, then Judge will have her say to the jury. I doubt we will see any witnesses until tomorrow.

This is consistent with when I was on a jury at a murder trial.

 

[BrissyLass]

Off-topic, but related: I note that Michael Byrne QC, who is GBC's defence barrister, is acting for the prosecution in the Daniel Morcombe case.

They don't seem to be as differentiated here as they are in the USA, do they? Over there - as far as I can gather - there are prosecutors, and defence lawyers, and they rarely swap sides. Perhaps the US members of this forum can either confirm that or correct me if I'm wrong...

We saw the same thing with Peter Davis when he was acting for GBC as his defence barrister - he was also the prosecutor in the Jayant Patel case (which he lost).

Interesting, but I'm not sure if or how it would affect his work in defending GBC.

I think you are correct in saying that is how the USA legal system works, but Brisbane is a relatively small legal pond and barristers will either defend OR prosecute.

Defend or prosecute, work is work ... it's money in the bank and it keeps their practice ticking over, it won't make one bit of difference in how he handles GBC's defence, once the Morcombe case concludes it will be on with the next job, whatever that might be

 

[lycheefarmer]

It seems too bizarre to me that;-

GBC would just be going through the process of being charged the way that he has;
and, although he has scratches, cuts, etc which resulted from actions associated with Allison's body being found at Kholo bridge;
as he 'knows he is innocent of murder' and there couldn't be 'true evidence to convict him' if it didn't happen by his hand.

Fervently believing that fighting (along with Olivia) for the wheels of justice to turn in his favour, GBC and that SOMEBODY else decided that this would be the most prudent way to handle things;

...... just be 'mum' on what evidence doesn't come to light, and give bizarre answers and act bizarrely in the face of all the usual questioning by the Law and the Media!

Too bizarre! Yes/No ..... snubbing their noses at the Australian legal system (sample of this was Olivia's swanning around in the Court room, and talking to GBC through the glass at the Committal, etc) figure that this is no one else's business but their own (Allison's parents were given only a version of what could have happened).

Purposeful actions, accidental, protecting SOMEONE ..... could be a well thought-through plan of handling the events of that night by the BCs ....... STILL CRIMINAL AND ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING.

If this is true, there is no moral fortitude in adopting that optional stance.

JMO

Or alternatively Couldbe maybe they're just an innocent family doing the best they can in horrendous circumstances? Can you be specific? In what ways have the BC family "Snubbed their noses at the Australian legal system"? I haven't read anywhere in the MSM that any family members other than GBC have been accused of anything of a criminal nature? Has someone else been charged that I don't know about? Surely they would be if they weren't complying with the law of the land?

This quote is very interesting in the light of this case;

The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.

Malcolm X

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/guilty.html#QYtkJFAwV0moZIA5.99

 

[Couldbe]

Or alternatively Couldbe maybe they're just an innocent family doing the best they can in horrendous circumstances? Can you be specific? In what ways have the BC family "Snubbed their noses at the Australian legal system"? I haven't read anywhere in the MSM that any family members other than GBC have been accused of anything of a criminal nature? Has someone else been charged that I don't know about? Surely they would be if they weren't complying with the law of the land?

This quote is very interesting in the light of this case;

The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.

Malcolm X

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/guilty.html#QYtkJFAwV0moZIA5.99

Lycheefarmer, at the Trial which is set down for 9 June, GBC will have the opportunity to tell, truthfully, exactly what he knows.
(So far versions and explanations have been supplied by GBC, a number of these are in contradiction).

Other members of the BC family will also be able to truthfully tell the Court exactly what they know. I, for one, hope this happens.

It seems that there is much more that has not been told ......... then again, there most likely is much more that has been told, and many of us are just not privy to it.

 

[Liadan]

Or alternatively Couldbe maybe they're just an innocent family doing the best they can in horrendous circumstances? Can you be specific? In what ways have the BC family "Snubbed their noses at the Australian legal system"? I haven't read anywhere in the MSM that any family members other than GBC have been accused of anything of a criminal nature? Has someone else been charged that I don't know about? Surely they would be if they weren't complying with the law of the land?

This quote is very interesting in the light of this case;

The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.

Malcolm X

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/guilty.html#QYtkJFAwV0moZIA5.99

Ahhh LF!

Interesting LF that you raise your weary head atm. I think its pretty obvious that the GBC family have been quite obstructive - where are their statements? Where are their efforts in searching for Allison? Sure they may be suffering and oh so innocent but these volunteer police statements are a matter of vital importance and routine for these kind of cases! So not to have a family fully cooperative with the police is quite odd if not off. Sure they were child minding but seriously if Amber NBC's dog went missing I think they would have launched a more vigorous search!

GBC lawyering UP before providing any serious info to police- ....And how hard did GBC look for Allison? (Maybe he thought about Allison when he wasn't emailing his mistresses or scratching his caterpillar bites.)

And even if the family despised and thought Allison to be a drag on their precious son/brother- her life was worth saving and valuable! Allison suffered in silence - and no one should have to deal with the bullying that she dealt with from the BC clan. She was basically excommunicated.

As for the media being the most powerful entity on earth - yes - no doubt! So go to the media tell your story and back it up with facts - I am sure they will be as open to your 'insider' info as they are to any they find themselves! If you want to plead privacy - then unfortunately you have to suck it up and deal with the fallout.

 

[Strangeworld]

I think the GBC clan will be taking note of the judge's words today in the Gittany case. The public behaviour of the accused' family may not influence the verdict, but it most certainly can influence the sentence.

 

[LadyBird1]

Or alternatively Couldbe maybe they're just an innocent family doing the best they can in horrendous circumstances? Can you be specific? In what ways have the BC family "Snubbed their noses at the Australian legal system"? I haven't read anywhere in the MSM that any family members other than GBC have been accused of anything of a criminal nature? Has someone else been charged that I don't know about? Surely they would be if they weren't complying with the law of the land?

This quote is very interesting in the light of this case;

The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.

Malcolm X

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/guilty.html#QYtkJFAwV0moZIA5.99

Not one member of that family helped the police with their enquiries. They "DECLINED".
Why would you decline to answer questions if you were innocent?
Wouldn't you be keen to find out the truth?
When it became evident that foul play was afoot, wouldn't you be want to find the perpetrator? The REAL perpetrator?
This is one Criminal case where the media is not the fault.
This is one Criminal case where the media have been remarkably circumspect.
This one Criminal case where the media actually appeared sympathetic towards that family.
It was OW who actively courted the media when she held her own little press conference (unasked for) when things were pretty hot inside the Court room.
It is the behaviour of that family (not the media) that has raised eyebrows.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

...........................................

This quote is very interesting in the light of this case;

The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.

Malcolm X

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/guilty.html#QYtkJFAwV0moZIA5.99

BrainyQuote:

"Think twice before you speak, because of your words and influence will plant the seed of either success or failure in the mind of another."
- Napoleon Hill -

And GBC's interview at the Police very well fits:
"ah - um - you know - ah - you know - um - um - (indistinct) - ah - you know"
He was always thinking ...

 

[AAAA]

Not one member of that family helped the police with their enquiries. They "DECLINED".
Why would you decline to answer questions if you were innocent?
Wouldn't you be keen to find out the truth?
When it became evident that foul play was afoot, wouldn't you be want to find the perpetrator? The REAL perpetrator?
This is one Criminal case where the media is not the fault.
This is one Criminal case where the media have been remarkably circumspect.
This one Criminal case where the media actually appeared sympathetic towards that family.
It was OW who actively courted the media when she held her own little press conference (unasked for) when things were pretty hot inside the Court room.
It is the behaviour of that family (not the media) that has raised eyebrows.

Totally agree LB1, the media was totally respectful to both sides until the Great Wall was put up in denial and silence. If it was me missing I know that both my family and my in laws would be pulling out all stops to find me. Not good enough!

 

[lycheefarmer]

Ahhh LF!

Interesting LF that you raise your weary head atm. I think its pretty obvious that the GBC family have been quite obstructive - where are their statements? Where are their efforts in searching for Allison? Sure they may be suffering and oh so innocent but these volunteer police statements are a matter of vital importance and routine for these kind of cases! So not to have a family fully cooperative with the police is quite odd if not off. Sure they were child minding but seriously if Amber NBC's dog went missing I think they would have launched a more vigorous search!

GBC lawyering UP before providing any serious info to police- ....And how hard did GBC look for Allison? (Maybe he thought about Allison when he wasn't emailing his mistresses or scratching his caterpillar bites.)

And even if the family despised and thought Allison to be a drag on their precious son/brother- her life was worth saving and valuable! Allison suffered in silence - and no one should have to deal with the bullying that she dealt with from the BC clan. She was basically excommunicated.

As for the media being the most powerful entity on earth - yes - no doubt! So go to the media tell your story and back it up with facts - I am sure they will be as open to your 'insider' info as they are to any they find themselves! If you want to plead privacy - then unfortunately you have to suck it up and deal with the fallout.

Here are some questions that I'd love you to answer Liadan!

I'm not aware that any non-police and non-SES people were involved in the search. Do you know differently?

Strange - I don't recall any reporting that The Dickie family themselves were involved in the search. I believe that they maintained a vigil at the Command Centre. Do you know differently? Do you know that the BCs didn't offer? If not why would you assume as such?

I'm no legal expert but it's standard process I would have thought to get a lawyer if you realised that you were fast becoming a suspect. Anyone with a modicum of legal understanding would know that! You might like to read this article http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnlyBadGuysCallTheirLawyers

What evidence do you have that Allison was "bullied" and "basically excommunicated" by the "BC clan"? I haven't seen that suggested anywhere apart from on WS. I thought that kind of comment was against the rules of WS?

Hmmm "dealing with the fallout" of the media coverage doesn't sound much like the presumption of innocence that is supposed to undergird our legal system. Maybe you should stop gossiping and wait for the trial. That's supposed to be how the system works, not trial by media and gossip!

As a contrarian who studied a little law following this case from a distance it is clear that the problem here is a rush to judgement and desire to demonise. Why not let justice take its course?

 

[Couldbe]

Lycheefarmer, you say: '.........they're just an innocent family doing the best they can in horrendous circumstances?' Well just try and ingest the following:

When GBC called 000 and reported Allison as a missing person, he was enlisting their help in finding her.

The Police who responded and attended at the home, upon asking a series of questions of GBC were told by him that there had been the resumption of an affair that he had not told his family about.
Three days before, GBC and Allison had a consultation with a Counsellor and she had advised them to have 15 minute sessions for "Allison to be able to vent and grill me on, you know, the [INDISTINCT] --" (from GBC interview with Police).
There were what looked like scratches on GBC's face, and a cut on his hand and he was dressed in business shirt and tie ...... off to work? ..... why had he phoned 000?

GBC had phoned for his father and sister to come to his home to assist him ....... in fact, he said that he and his father were going to a property that was launching on the market for auction. His sister was in the process of taking the children to school when the Police arrived at 8am. All seemed at odds with the serious situation at hand.

........ SOMEONE KNOWS MORE!!!!

GBC's father must have really thought he and the rest of the family needed to protect him from the Police and the Media who were trying to help find Allison; ESPECIALLY with the Police observing this scene and the circumstances surrounding the 'missing person' call,

The family were obviously fearing that GBC (and maybe others close to GBC) were under suspicion of knowing more than they had told the Police in connection with what had happened to Allison.

Her body was found 10 days later ....... and it is really not possible that Allison, took herself a distance of 14 kms away where she lay in the mud under Kholo bridge having committed suicide.

...... Lycheefarmer, do you really believe that GBC and his family have told the Police all they know ....... or do you think they might give new information at the Trial?

 

[lycheefarmer]

Lycheefarmer, you say: '.........they're just an innocent family doing the best they can in horrendous circumstances?' Well just try and ingest the following:

When GBC called 000 and reported Allison as a missing person, he was enlisting their help in finding her.

The Police who responded and attended at the home, upon asking a series of questions of GBC were told by him that there had been the resumption of an affair that he had not told his family about.
Three days before, GBC and Allison had a consultation with a Counsellor and she had advised them to have 15 minute sessions for "Allison to be able to vent and grill me on, you know, the [INDISTINCT] --" (from GBC interview with Police).
There were what looked like scratches on GBC's face, and a cut on his hand and he was dressed in business shirt and tie ...... off to work? ..... why had he phoned 000?

GBC had phoned for his father and sister to come to his home to assist him ....... in fact, he said that he and his father were going to a property that was launching on the market for auction. His sister was in the process of taking the children to school when the Police arrived at 8am. All seemed at odds with the serious situation at hand.

........ SOMEONE KNOWS MORE!!!!

GBC's father must have really thought he and the rest of the family needed to protect him from the Police and the Media who were trying to help find Allison; ESPECIALLY with the Police observing this scene and the circumstances surrounding the 'missing person' call,

The family were obviously fearing that GBC (and maybe others close to GBC) were under suspicion of knowing more than they had told the Police in connection with what had happened to Allison.

Her body was found 10 days later ....... and it is really not possible that Allison, took herself a distance of 14 kms away where she lay in the mud under Kholo bridge having committed suicide.

...... Lycheefarmer, do you really believe that GBC and his family have told the Police all they know ....... or do you think they might give new information at the Trial?

Well I wouldn't know! But I wonder why based on your own final question you wouldn't just wait till the trial yourself. That's the way our system works.

 

[AAAA]

Well I wouldn't know! But I wonder why based on your own final question you wouldn't just wait till the trial yourself. That's the way our system works.

That is correct, Lycheefarmer, but public opinion is rife in this case. There are, I suspect, quite a few people on this forum that knew or knew of both parties, so emotions run high. It just seems that a bit more openness in Gerard's camp would have made the whole "my wife's gone missing" a little more legit. Not trying to attack you, just disagree.

 

[Couldbe]

Well I wouldn't know! But I wonder why based on your own final question you wouldn't just wait till the trial yourself. That's the way our system works.

Well lycheefarmer, when Allison was reported missing the reason for pretty well everyone being on this web site was to be involved in discussing where she might be found.....hopefully alive. As time went on everyone feared the worst. Then discussions started to centre around the whereabouts of Allison's phone, which had been used by Police to triangulate where she could be found.

Discussions then turned to who may be involved in her death and her body being located at Kholo bridge.

Members on this web site have attempted to discuss every angle they can possibly think of in an endeavour to uncover what might have occurred. We are still discussing here ..... you are too! ... and the Trial is drawing closer.

 

[Strangeworld]

Here are some questions that I'd love you to answer Liadan!

I'm not aware that any non-police and non-SES people were involved in the search. Do you know differently?

Strange - I don't recall any reporting that The Dickie family themselves were involved in the search. I believe that they maintained a vigil at the Command Centre. Do you know differently? Do you know that the BCs didn't offer? If not why would you assume as such?

I'm no legal expert but it's standard process I would have thought to get a lawyer if you realised that you were fast becoming a suspect. Anyone with a modicum of legal understanding would know that! You might like to read this article http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnlyBadGuysCallTheirLawyers

What evidence do you have that Allison was "bullied" and "basically excommunicated" by the "BC clan"? I haven't seen that suggested anywhere apart from on WS. I thought that kind of comment was against the rules of WS?

Hmmm "dealing with the fallout" of the media coverage doesn't sound much like the presumption of innocence that is supposed to undergird our legal system. Maybe you should stop gossiping and wait for the trial. That's supposed to be how the system works, not trial by media and gossip!

As a contrarian who studied a little law following this case from a distance it is clear that the problem here is a rush to judgement and desire to demonise. Why not let justice take its course?

Lychee with all due respect, have you read the threads on this case? I think you will find most of what you are questioning has already been discussed, often with MSM reports to back it up. Have you also read the court documents, statements, etc? You might find some answers there too.

I don't think it's fair to question how we interact on WS - the mods are there to keep us in line.

And BBM - no rushing to demonise here - GBC has managed that part of it just fine on his own!

 

[DrWatson]

I should just point out that as far as I know, the entire B-C family (apart from Gerard) have declined to give statements to the police. And without having charged them with anything (yet??) they can't be made to give statements as far as I'm aware.

As far as the search is concerned, yes, a LOT of non-police and non-SES people were involved. All those who live within a 2Km radius of the BC house initially, and then out to 5Km, were asked by police to search their properties. I live VERY close, so I had to search our property, and then log in and report to the search coordination centre. Following that, because we have a decent sized dam on the property, the police came round and double-checked - with me alongside them - exactly where I'd searched and helped with the parts I couldn't get to on the quad.

The complete non-appearance of any of Gerard's family at the control centre was conspicuous by their absence, whereas the Dickies were there almost non-stop.

Now I agree with you completely that justice has to run its course, and innocence has to be presumed until proven otherwise. But the behaviour of the BC family has been somewhat "odd" from the beginning, and has been picked up on not only by those here on WS, but also by many locals here in Brookfield. Of which I'm one...

It's all about perception, I think.

 

[lycheefarmer]

"It's all about perception, I think." Sorry DrWatson I thought a scientific chap like yourself would have realised that this legal business is actually all about the facts. The perceptions of those of the "broad lawns and narrow minds" (quoting Hemmingway probably badly) matters little. I understand that owners searched their own properties. That is entirely different to saying that volunteers were conscripted to join the co-ordinated search of forest areas etc. I repeat my question, did other members of either family (beside the BCs) search (or anyone other than police and SES people) or did they simply maintain a vigil (which was entirely appropriate in the circumstances)? Like you I think it will be very interesting to see the voluntary statements that have been made (if any)???

 

[marlywings]

As a contrarian who studied a little law following this case from a distance it is clear that the problem here is a rush to judgement and desire to demonise. Why not let justice take its course?

Websleuths is a true crime forum where all members discuss or sleuth crimes but it's not only about that. It's also about seeking & seeing justice served for the victims in all the various murder cases.

Quite a lot of our members in Allison's case, including myself, have been with this case since the day she was reported missing. We have followed the case extremely closely throughout. Members, including our verified doctors & solicitors, have dissected, in minute detail, every aspect of the case known to us. I can attest to that because I've read every post written in the entire 47 threads.... along with every report & affidavit that's been published to date. So there's no "rushing to judgement" here.

Allison was murdered, her body dumped under a bridge in the mud like a bag of rubbish. The day her body was found, Inspector in the case said it was a homicide case & they'd been treating it as such for some time.

From all the information that has been published & discussed on WS, all angles point directly to one person being the murderer. That person is currently in prison awaiting trial for murder.

I am so proud of all these members who have shown such extreme dedication. Throughout almost two years, they have shown absolute care & concern for a beautiful woman & her family who most have never met.

Lastly, I like quotes too! My favourite will always be the following as it applies to all the murder cases on WS.

............."It offends our collective conscience"

 

[Liadan]

Websleuths is a true crime forum where all members discuss or sleuth crimes but it's not only about that. It's also about seeking & seeing justice served for the victims in all the various murder cases.

Quite a lot of our members in Allison's case, including myself, have been with this case since the day she was reported missing. We have followed the case extremely closely throughout. Members, including our verified doctors & solicitors, have dissected, in minute detail, every aspect of the case known to us. I can attest to that because I've read every post written in the entire 47 threads.... along with every report & affidavit that's been published to date. So there's no "rushing to judgement" here.

Allison was murdered, her body dumped under a bridge in the mud like a bag of rubbish. The day her body was found, Inspector in the case said it was a homicide case & they'd been treating it as such for some time.

From all the information that has been published & discussed on WS, all angles point directly to one person being the murderer. That person is currently in prison awaiting trial for murder.

I am so proud of all these members who have shown such extreme dedication. Throughout almost two years, they have shown absolute care & concern for a beautiful woman & her family who most have never met.

Lastly, I like quotes too! My favourite will always be the following as it applies to all the murder cases on WS.

............."It offends our collective conscience"

Thanks Marley!:tyou: Great post - I think it sums up how we all feel about this case!