GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #8

[IzzyBlanche]

BBM S...BM for focus

Izzy
thx for relating your experience.
How long ago? Curious about whether you've tried to google or otherwise ck for arrests or entanglements w crim justice system since then.
Maybe that was his first and only.

Some of us have also done things we never would have predicted of ourselves. :seeya:

Your questions made me realize how much I've blocked out this experience to the point that most details other than the ones I posted are difficult to recall.

How long ago? I think it must have been 2006, possibly 2005. In 2007 I started a job that doesn't compensate for jury duty so this had to be before that.

I've never had any interest in following up on what the defendant did afterward. I can't even remember his name. It'd be interesting, though, I agree, to see what might come up if I could remember his name and google it.

 

[Karmady]

I just didn't like the correlation as stated with crime/gun laws. There are multiple reasons why crime in LA is much higher than crime in Scottsdale & I don't think gun ownership has much to do with anything in that regard.

The old saying about lies, damn lies and statistics comes to mind.

Not sure if we agree or disagree. There's no correlation between the lenient, almost non-existent, gun laws and the amount of violent crime in Scottsdale. What do you make of that?

 

[MeeBee]

Well, I was very busy last couple days (took my daughter to Disneyland yesterday ) and could not get signal for most of the day long enough to get the verdict. I could see there was one by the discussion, but couldn't find out what it was...frustrating! We were flying back today and this is the first time I've been able to get in front of a screen.

Anyway, not surprised at the hung jury but WHOA! at the guilties. I really didn't know what to expect there, but I am very pleased by it, but confuse me, jury. For me, the murder charge was the easy part. The difficulty for me would have been figuring out it it was M1 or M2. But the attempted murder would have taken some time. To be honest, I don't think Dunn was even trying to kill him. I can see that each bullet that was shot was aimed, IMO, right at Jordan.

So, I'm disappointed and I hope that they do go ahead with a retrial. It might be hard to see the point since he's going away, probably for the rest of his life, anyway. But it's totally the principle. It's incomplete justice. It's like the life that was taken didn't matter. It does seem there are some, at least one, who buys his story and their agreeing to attempted murder confounds me. It's like they feel like he had it coming because he attacked but Dunn should be held accountable for going overboard? But it's like they're also saying Jordan's actions almost got his friends killed. I can't...

If it was me, I would want the retrial and another chance to clear my son's name and have his killer be held accountable for his death. Nothing will bring Jordan back, but it's worth it. I'm happy, but it's incomplete. This trial went forward very quickly, hopefully the next one will too. And hopefully the prosecution does a better job. I said it before but I think they were rushing. When it got to them to cross examine or do redirect, they didn't have much to ask even though they should have, especially for Dunn. Prosecutors are usually chomping at the bit to get a chance to question the defendant, and they did. Guy did alright, but he could have done better. He seemed unprepared, he didn't bring his arguments home, he let Dunn run the show. Sometimes prosecutors think the jury is smart enough to figure it out if you don't spell it out for them. But you gotta assume sometimes and leave no stone unturned, no questions unasked, and put the puzzle pieces together yourself. The knock against Juan Martinez was that he'd take too long and he should just move on. But that's probably why he wins. He doesn't leave anything to chance and leave any room for any kind of doubt. He does the digging. That's what you gotta do.

Whoo! So much to say! I'm usually left with kind of an empty feeling after the trial is over. After the initial rush of feelings from the verdict. Even if it's one that makes me happy, it kind of melts to sadness. It doesn't bring the person back, lives are ruined, the families are left torn and broken hearted with the pain that will never go away. The only consolation is that their death was avenged in some way, and when it's not it's even worse.

I'm glad I have a place to come to discuss these cases and get it all out!

 

[MeeBee]

One of the things I think the prosecution could do, to clear up any misconceptions about the child locks, is to bring in an expert on 2002 Dodge Durangos. How the doors work, the auto locks, how far down the rear windows go, would have been helpful. Also the height if the Durango as compared to the Jetta, where the Jetta would have been parked in relation to the Durango with regards to the gunshot trajectory.

IIRC, the Jetta windows were down when MD started shooting. Tevin Thompson stated he reached over and put up Jordan's window prior to the shooting. The shattering of the windows seemed similar, which would give credibility to Tevin's testimony. JMO

This is exactly what I mean when I say they should have gone that extra mile. Sometimes you gotta think outside the box and dig a little. If you don't it gives an out out to those wanting to let the guy off. You gotta account for those guys. Hate to keep bringing it up, but I do because I think it was an excellent case of lawyering, but in the Arias trial Jodi has one on her side. If you read his questions this guy really wanted to let her off. But JM went the extra mile and hammered each little point home, didn't let the points the defense made slide, and put it all together, piece by piece, no matter how annoying some thought he was being. Don't know if many other lawyers would have dug and found the gas can info. In the end even the foreman couldn't argue that evidence.

Guy is a likable fellow, a good public speaker, charismatic, has a pretty face, but in the two trials I've seen him in I haven't been very impressed with him. Maybe it's just the cases he has to work with but that's just MHO. His cross examination of Dunn was all over the place, and not in a good way.

 

[MeeBee]

Thank you so much! I had to type it in as my IPad doesn't copy and paste. :seeya:

Hey, Zuri, iPads do copy/paste! You gotta hold your finger down on it until the text is highlighted, tap on it and a "copy" button will appear. Then where you wanna paste it, hold your finger down again and a "paste" button will appear!

 

[Steely Dan]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/16/opinion/weathersbee-dunn-davis-verdict/index.html?hpt=op_t1

The extermination of Jordan Davis: An empty verdict, a hollow victory
By Tonyaa Weathersbee
updated 2:47 PM EST, Sun February 16, 2014

(CNN) -- So it looks like Michael Dunn, a white man who fatally shot black teenager Jordan Davis for refusing to turn down his " music," may be going to prison for the rest of his life.

But that's a consolation prize. Not a real victory.

It's not a real victory because the jury that convicted Dunn, 47, didn't convict him for killing the 17-year-old Davis. They convicted him for almost killing Davis' three friends who were riding in the Dodge Durango with him. They found Dunn guilty of three counts of second-degree attempted murder and one count of shooting deadly missiles. Each attempted murder count carries a minimum sentence of 20 years....

 

[Steely Dan]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/16/justice/florida-loud-music-trial/index.html

Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud music' trial
By Greg Botelho, Steve Almasy and Sunny Hostin, CNN
updated 2:03 AM EST, Mon February 17, 2014

...Strolla said Saturday the four convictions leave him with regret, even as he said he couldn't immediately think of anything he'd do differently in the case.

At the same time, the prosecution didn't manage a conviction on what was by far the biggest charge: first-degree murder.

This mixed bag means that no one can fully celebrate the jury's decision.

"Everybody lost something in this," the lawyer said.

His client "will live to fight another day" in court, but he and his loved ones are suffering now, Strolla said. He acknowledged, too, the pain felt by Davis' family.

 

[Donjeta]

"My client did not wait to become that victim," he said. "My client did not wait to either get assaulted by a weapon or have someone potentially pull a trigger," he said.

Though a weapon was never found, Strolla maintains the youths could have had one and somehow ditched it. He said the key point was that Dunn believed they were armed and that his life was in danger.

"Now, does it sound irrational? Of course it sounds irrational. But have you ever been in that situation?" the lawyer asked.

No, he chose to commit murder and attempt three others.

JMO but there is no room for being irrational when you're firing a deadly weapon at people.

Does Strolla indirectly admit that there was no weapon there? I mean, if it sounds so irrational and all...?

 

[TimesPast]

Not sure if we agree or disagree. There's no correlation between the lenient, almost non-existent, gun laws and the amount of violent crime in Scottsdale. What do you make of that?

We probably agree on many issues, maybe not on gun laws - I agree that crime in areas such as Scottsdale is low - probably why folks like to live there - but I don't think it relates to the existence or non-existence of gun laws.

Talking about differences is so much a better idea than Dunn's solution - I think we agree on that one.

 

[turaj]

This reminds me of the Arias penalty verdict...at least my feelings on it...we got both Dunn and Arias but not 100%...it sort of leaves you hanging...as for the retrial...well I certainly want to see his held accountable of the murder but the way things are going for juries today and the instructions they receive that they cannot understand..he could get a not guilty and then what?? Would they go for overturning the others.??? Crazy world.

 

[popsicle]

The smart thing in Dunn's case is to keep his lawyer for the next trial. He was good imo and he knows the case's strengths and weaknesses. Will his family put out the money tho? Most defendants lose in a retrial and I expect this one to be no different.

If I was on the jury and the mistrial was over the level of murder, and not G/NG, I would at least release a statement so CNN and others will stop commenting about 1 or more jurors believing JD had a gun. jmo

I have been on a jury before.

 

[ShadyLady]

Watching Baez win his case, I agree with the WS member that said 'it really has to be spelled out for those jurors of limited intelligence'. And what I saw in Casey's trial was that Baez repeated ad nauseum what he wanted the jury to believe. Over and over again.

Like: "if the glove does not fit, you must acquit." I think phases stick, especially with people that have a bias or are not prepared to analysis the evidence.

 

[Zuri]

Hey, Zuri, iPads do copy/paste! You gotta hold your finger down on it until the text is highlighted, tap on it and a "copy" button will appear. Then where you wanna paste it, hold your finger down again and a "paste" button will appear!

Thank you for telling me! I had no idea. I just tried it and it worked!!!!! Mine comes up as Select All and then I can paste it in the quick reply box! OMG I am so technologically challenged! Thank you!

 

[LambChop]

The smart thing in Dunn's case is to keep his lawyer for the next trial. He was good imo and he knows the case's strengths and weaknesses. Will his family put out the money tho? Most defendants lose in a retrial and I expect this one to be no different.

If I was on the jury and the mistrial was over the level of murder, and not G/NG, I would at least release a statement so CNN and others will stop commenting about 1 or more jurors believing JD had a gun. jmo

I have been on a jury before.

On the jailhouse phone conversation with his father and mother, Dunn's father tells MD it's going to cost them $100,000 to defend him for this trial. Obviously, from what Strolla said in his press conference the family decided not to do that. Apparently Dunn has very little assets so he may try again for a public defender. Dunn can't change his story. The three passengers are out of the picture in terms of the next trial so it is just what happened between JD and MD. I think the lyrics to the song may go a long way into the jury believing that MD may have misheard and misjudged what JD said because of the song. The fact that TS had opened his driver door to get in may have confused MD after-the-fact with him thinking JD must have opened his door to try and get out. He never saw an actual gun and if we look back at his testimony it keeps changing with little details never mentioned before. If the State goes over his testimony word-for-word and matches it up with what MD said happened I don't think it will leave doubt in the minds of the jurors that he just overreacted to backtalk from a teen. jmo

 

[luvmygarden]

I feel that the Jury thinks he is guilty but couldn't come to an agreement on what count. So I am happy they hung. Now it gives the prosecution the chance to focus on Jordan Davis. If they thought he wasn't guilty they would not have convicted him on the attempted murders. They would have found him not guilty of attempted murder.

If they thought it was self defense I still don't think they would have convicted him on the 3 attempted murders only with using a firearm. So I am sure the prosecution is pleased to have such a smart articulate jury even though they did not agree on Jordan's charge.
Dunn has finally found there is a part of his manipulative personality where he failed.
I sure hope RR stayed away from the verdict because she is done with him.
I was wondering as long as she was a witness for the prosecution was she still allowed visits and phone calls or did she have to not have contact with him???

 

[liljim]

im not really criticizing Guy here because i dont feel like i have the legal knowledge to do so, im just stating my opinion on what i liked or didnt like, take it from a potential juror's perspective i guess;

i did not like it at all when he said (para but very close) "we are not looking for lesser included's here, this is first degree murder" - i believe this was during closing. i would bet a fair sum that he will not say those words in the retrial.

my reason for this is that because even tho i fully believe this was 1st degree murder, i can put together a reasonable argument why it should be 2nd degree (manslaughter i dont think really fits).

so while i might not agree with it, i think a reasonable person can (and probably did) look at the facts of this case and feel that 2nd degree was the most appropriate charge.

 

[Zuri]

Watching Baez win his case, I agree with the WS member that said 'it really has to be spelled out for those jurors of limited intelligence'. And what I saw in Casey's trial was that Baez repeated ad nauseum what he wanted the jury to believe. Over and over again.

Like: "if the glove does not fit, you must acquit." I think phases stick, especially with people that have a bias or are not prepared to analysis the evidence.

Unfortunately, I think bias played a role. There are so many MSM reports of crime, that is almost fear mongering to those whose daily lives are outside the "fringe". For some of these jurors, the fact that there were 4 black youths, playing loud rap music, JD mouthing off, in a tinted SUV, may have been enough to sway them towards NG. They may have put themselves in MD shoes and thought that they would be afraid if JD was saying "I am gonna kill you MF".

Where theses jurors, if any, stopped their rationalization was with what a prudent, responsible, reasonable adult would do. That adult would have moved his car. And not pulled out a gun and shot bullets into a car.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Dunn was treated with indifference at his son's wedding as he was not an integral part of his son's life. I think this made MD furious and unfortunately, JD was the recipient of that anger. JMV

 

[daisy7]

On the jailhouse phone conversation with his father and mother, Dunn's father tells MD it's going to cost them $100,000 to defend him for this trial. Obviously, from what Strolla said in his press conference the family decided not to do that. Apparently Dunn has very little assets so he may try again for a public defender. Dunn can't change his story. The three passengers are out of the picture in terms of the next trial so it is just what happened between JD and MD. I think the lyrics to the song may go a long way into the jury believing that MD may have misheard and misjudged what JD said because of the song. The fact that TS had opened his driver door to get in may have confused MD after-the-fact with him thinking JD must have opened his door to try and get out. He never saw an actual gun and if we look back at his testimony it keeps changing with little details never mentioned before. If the State goes over his testimony word-for-word and matches it up with what MD said happened I don't think it will leave doubt in the minds of the jurors that he just overreacted to backtalk from a teen. jmo

Did Strolla bring up the actual song lyrics in this trial? If so, I missed it. When I read the song lyrics, I don't think they matched what MD testified to. The biggest hurdle I thought the defense had was explaining how MD heard whatever Jordan said, over the extremely loud music. But, I guess that worked for them.

 

[katiecoolady]

There is a very high relationship between crime and poverty - I gather there is not much poverty in Scottsdale.

I think poverty in Scottsdale means you live in a tract home vs. custom.

(I live right down the road from Scottsdale).

:seeya:

 

[katiecoolady]

I feel that the Jury thinks he is guilty but couldn't come to an agreement on what count. So I am happy they hung. Now it gives the prosecution the chance to focus on Jordan Davis. If they thought he wasn't guilty they would not have convicted him on the attempted murders. They would have found him not guilty of attempted murder.

If they thought it was self defense I still don't think they would have convicted him on the 3 attempted murders only with using a firearm. So I am sure the prosecution is pleased to have such a smart articulate jury even though they did not agree on Jordan's charge.
Dunn has finally found there is a part of his manipulative personality where he failed.
I sure hope RR stayed away from the verdict because she is done with him.
I was wondering as long as she was a witness for the prosecution was she still allowed visits and phone calls or did she have to not have contact with him???

Now this is something I can wrap my head around...thanks.