Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[MyBelle]

I disagree
A person may escape conviction, be found not guilty or never be arrested that alone doesn't mean they are factually innocent.

How it works, jurors are instructed the defendant is entitled to the presumption of innocence.

The prosecutor certainly doesn't extend that presumption, law enforcement certainly doesn't.





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Nor did the jury in the wrongful death lawsuit filed against OJ Simpson.

 

[Chewy]

How did the Ramseys know they'd be able to block a phone supeona before they called their lawyers?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Phone companies are regulated utilities. Please cite me a link with any utilities commission that requires landline records to be stored for any period of time.

Local landline phone calls were unlimited, they were not itemized on the phone bill. To obtain local call detail required a subpoena because it was quite a task for the phone company to retrieve them from data storage. There was no requirement for the phone company to store that call detail for any period of time. Long distance phone call detail for landlines had to be obtained from the long distance provider which may or may not have been US WEST.

Thomas requested a subpoena for toll (long distance) records. The DA's office refused. I think it is ridiculous to suggest those long distance records were available three years later therefore it is no big deal that Thomas' request was denied.

The fault is with the DA's office, not Thomas. Trip DeMuth's dad worked for US WEST as legal counsel. He certainly knew subpoenas were required to obtain toll records. Refusal to obtain a subpoena is outrageous, inexcusable conduct on the part of the DA's office.

all, IMO

It was not even 2 years later when the Grand jury convened. They had the power to ask for and receive evidence at their own bequest.
So we won't know until and unless the reveal all of the GJ records.

There is no fault here. There is what it was.

 

[MyBelle]

It was not even 2 years later when the Grand jury convened. They had the power to ask for and receive evidence at their own bequest.
So we won't know until and unless the reveal all of the GJ records.

There is no fault here. There is what it was.

imo, there is fault. This case is unsolved 17 years later because of unethical conduct and conflicts of interest. There is absolutely no excuse for failure to subpoena phone records.

Yes, the Grand Jury could subpoena records. Please cite a link to anything that validates your claim that the records were available two years later. Thanks.

 

[MyBelle]

How did the Ramseys know they'd be able to block a phone supeona before they called their lawyers?

It is unknown when the Ramseys called their lawyers.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

How did the Ramseys know they'd be able to block a phone supeona before they called their lawyers?

It is silly and completely a red herring.

If people can make other people believe the R's were weird or too rich then that can be the basis for their involvement in the crime and cover up.

JMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It is unknown when the Ramseys called their lawyers.

No really it is not. That morning they called their friend Charles Bynum who is a coporate lawyer. He came to sit with them. After JBR was found and John spent some time talking to John Fernie, Fernie suggested that John get lawyers for him and the family and he did. I am not positive but I believe he asked Bynum to help him retain attys.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

imo, there is fault. This case is unsolved 17 years later because of unethical conduct and conflicts of interest. There is absolutely no excuse for failure to subpoena phone records.

Yes, the Grand Jury could subpoena records. Please cite a link to anything that validates your claim that the records were available two years later. Thanks.

It is not solved in my opinion because of the bad police work in the very beginning. Who knows what was lost that day, What we would know if the police had found the body of JBR like they should have if they searched the place correctly. If LA had some control..

I don't need to cite it. IT WAS NOT EVEN 2 years. It was about 18 months. I don't have any issue believing they had access to them, not that I think they mean anything..

 

[Chewy]

That's not what I asked. How did they know the supoena would be denied. Wow the Evil Ramseys have the phone company in on it too.

 

[MyBelle]

That's not what I asked. How did they know the supoena would be denied. Wow the Evil Ramseys have the phone company in on it too.

Who said the Ramseys knew the subpoena would be denied?

 

[RANCH]

Why didn't Steve Thomas just get a search warrant for the phone records he was interested in?

In addition, search warrants are used by investigators, such as police and sheriffs’ departments, who do not have subpoena power.

Under both state and federal law, a law enforcement officer enforcing a search warrant may “use and employ such force as may reasonably be necessary in the performance of the duties commanded by the warrant”. This means that any person interfering with the search is subject to arrest and potential criminal charges. It also means that in executing the search the officer may disrupt normal business activities, obtain access to closed areas even if destruction or damage of property is required to gain access, and seize and remove documents and other property, including property which may contain the items being sought such as computers and back-up storage devices. An officer is given considerable discretion in determining how to proceed with execution of the warrant. However, the executing officer will typically allow someone who is not a target of the investigation (such as a bank, when its customer is being investigated) to voluntarily produce the items sought within a reasonable time. The very real threat to disrupt business by performing a full search of the premises is usually enough to obtain that person’s cooperation.

I'm sure he could have come up with probable cause to get a judge to sign a search warrant for the phone records. He didn't need the DA's office to get those records. MOO. Sorry for the off topic post.

http://www.bsblawyers.com/responding-to-subpoenas-and-search-warrants/

 

[Chewy]

Who said the Ramseys knew the subpoena would be denied?

Then why bring them into it? Thank you.

Why didn't Steve Thomas just get a search warrant for the phone records he was interested in?



I'm sure he could have come up with probable cause to get a judge to sign a search warrant for the phone records. He didn't need the DA's office to get those records. MOO. Sorry for the off topic post.

http://www.bsblawyers.com/responding-to-subpoenas-and-search-warrants/

This is what I don't understand.

 

[MyBelle]

It is not solved in my opinion because of the bad police work in the very beginning. Who knows what was lost that day, What we would know if the police had found the body of JBR like they should have if they searched the place correctly. If LA had some control..

I don't need to cite it. IT WAS NOT EVEN 2 years. It was about 18 months. I don't have any issue believing they had access to them, not that I think they mean anything..

BBM. I'm not following your logic. The failure of the DA's office to grant a subpoena for the phone records is the fault of police?

If you are going to cite something as fact, please cite a link. Where are you getting that long distance phone records are available 18 months later?

Police investigate crimes, not the Grand Jury.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Why didn't Steve Thomas just get a search warrant for the phone records he was interested in?



I'm sure he could have come up with probable cause to get a judge to sign a search warrant for the phone records. He didn't need the DA's office to get those records. MOO. Sorry for the off topic post.

http://www.bsblawyers.com/responding-to-subpoenas-and-search-warrants/

Your link says investigators do NOT have subpoena power.

In addition, search warrants are used by investigators, such as police and sheriffs’ departments, who do not have subpoena power.

 

[MyBelle]

No really it is not. That morning they called their friend Charles Bynum who is a coporate lawyer. He came to sit with them. After JBR was found and John spent some time talking to John Fernie, Fernie suggested that John get lawyers for him and the family and he did. I am not positive but I believe he asked Bynum to help him retain attys.

You can disagree all you like but it remains a fact that it is unknown when Ramseys contacted their attorneys whether it be Bynum or anybody else.

 

[MyBelle]

Then why bring them into it? Thank you.






This is what I don't understand.

A search warrant won't work because the phone company has to retrieve the data from a massive data base and turn it over. They don't just turn over their servers to law enforcement and say, here, you find it.

 

[RANCH]

Your link says investigators do NOT have subpoena power.

In addition, search warrants are used by investigators, such as police and sheriffs’ departments, who do not have subpoena power.

Yes, that's point I'm making. Steve Thomas didn't need the District Attorneys office to issue a subpoena for the phone records. He could have gotten a search warrant on his own for those records.

The question is, why didn't he do that?

 

[Chewy]

Another assumption that people just blindly accept is the way her body wasn't found for hours

Who would assume that the police wouldn't properly contain the crime scene?

So this means that plan was supposed to go down differently. If an IDI we need to ask ourselves what they intended to happen.

Some ideas

A. The Ramseys don't call the police and go get the money and then being told to go to the basement after the money was dropped off. Or nothing said until the smell leads them there.

B. They expected the cops to find her within an hour of showing up on the scene and to frame the Ramseys

C. They intended to kidnap her but something went wrong and they mutilated her instead as a way of punishing John

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, that's point I'm making. Steve Thomas didn't need the District Attorneys office to issue a subpoena for the phone records. He could have gotten a search warrant on his own for those records.

The question is, why didn't he do that?

A search warrant is used to inspect property. There was no probable cause to search the property of the phone company.


JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, that's point I'm making. Steve Thomas didn't need the District Attorneys office to issue a subpoena for the phone records. He could have gotten a search warrant on his own for those records.

The question is, why didn't he do that?

Because a subpoena was needed, not a search warrant.