Trial Discussion Thread #19 - 14.04.07, Day 17

[steveml]

Nel can't be seen to cut OP any slack whatsoever, no matter how much distraction OP causes with all his dramatics. This is his most crucial witness, the only person left alive who can answer questions. If Nel doesn't grill him over every single detail (no matter how insignificant it may seem) then he's not doing his job. So I think it will be no holds barred because that's the only way he's going to crack OP. And Roux was no angel...

You wouldn't be trying to put the nice Mr Roux away for a spell now would you Soozie? :behindbar

I shall be raising an objection with m'lady. :wink:

 

[Interested Bystander]

One of the easiest ways to get in through single glass is using a glass cutter and a plunger. Attach the plunger (here I am talking of a suction tool) and then cut a circle somewhere near the lock, tap the circle lightly and remove circle of glass. You have to be careful to make sure there is a slight angle to the cut so that the glass can be removed. Any one out of a job :floorlaugh: I don't think the hole in the top left of the window would be very interesting to a burglar.

This was explained by a policeman who gave a talk in area about ways of protecting one's property. We had a spate of removal of windows entirely, no noise, in and out quickly. Some of the earlier double glazed windows could be prised out once the sealing strip/trim had been removed and patio doors could also be lifted out. Also our neighbours who had bought expensive cars woke one morning to find their windscreen on the deck and everything of value gone. Nobody heard a thing and 4 cars in our cul de sac of 8 houses had been burglarised.

 

[whiterum]

Also who does he think he is , having the absolute gall to inform her parents that she felt loved before he killed her.

Of course she felt loved, her mum, dad, friends and family all loved her to bits !

 

[Viper]

I've always thought the hole in the windows was a red herring and completely irrelevant. I suggested an air rifle pellet but he would have been stupid aiming, even at tins, in the direction of the house, so not really a probability. Maybe window cleaners but IMO totally irrelevant to the current situation. He may be asked how it happened and we may get an answer but not what some would like to believe.

Couldn't be have fired from inside the house? That's my thought. Or thrown something in that direction and hit the window intentionally or mistakenly.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Couldn't be have fired from inside the house? That's my thought. Or thrown something in that direction and hit the window intentionally or mistakenly.

Yes, always a possibility. I was thinking more of the damage being of interest to a burglar as a way in.

 

[steveml]

I haven't reached a conclusion and haven't presumed anything have just put a theory why a broken window can be a security risk. Clearly the defence felt the need to address it . I will wait until after the trial is over before I make my final conclusions.
But if it was my house I would have had it boarded up immediately .

No worries. Nel may well bring the matter up yet.

I would think it more of a security risk perhaps on an open estate, and I think that's what the local bobby would be referring to.
Burglars are very much opportunists, a house with a broken window may be chosen over another, not because they can get in through the window, but because it could suggest to them you don't take security too seriously, so your house would be easier to burgle than the neighbours.

As OP lives within gated security, the burglars have to bypass the fingerprint recognition system at the gates, gate security, the laser alarms, the razor wire, the dogs and then all that's left is the patrolling security guards at regular intervals.
They'd have to get through all that to even know there was a hole in the window.

 

[Danta]

I'm unclear on how posting a politically left website (Mother Jones, not an MSM article related to this case) insisting Paul Ryan is secretly saying racist things without actually saying them clears anything up.

The word 'urban' does not men black.

The word 'culture' does not mean black.

Unless Mother Jones insists it's racially loaded rhetoric. Then it is so. :banghead:

I never read Mother Jones before! I thought it was media.

I have heard and seen this topic discussed on TV and wanted to provide a link where it was mentioned and that was the first one I found.

 

[steveml]

One of the easiest ways to get in through single glass is using a glass cutter and a plunger. Attach the plunger (here I am talking of a suction tool) and then cut a circle somewhere near the lock, tap the circle lightly and remove circle of glass. You have to be careful to make sure there is a slight angle to the cut so that the glass can be removed. Any one out of a job :floorlaugh: I don't think the hole in the top left of the window would be very interesting to a burglar.

This was explained by a policeman who gave a talk in area about ways of protecting one's property. We had a spate of removal of windows entirely, no noise, in and out quickly. Some of the earlier double glazed windows could be prised out once the sealing strip/trim had been removed and patio doors could also be lifted out. Also our neighbours who had bought expensive cars woke one morning to find their windscreen on the deck and everything of value gone. Nobody heard a thing and 4 cars in our cul de sac of 8 houses had been burglarised.

That's exactly how it works. There doesn't need to be a hole there in the first place.

They put the beading on the inside of double glazed windows now for precisely the reason you've mentioned above. It took them a few years before they had the 'light bulb' moment mind you.

We'll all be proficient burglars by the end of this. :smile:

 

[jay-jay]

I think many people wanted the broken window to be important.

The reality is, it isn't. I let it go when it wasn't brought up in prosecution.

I'm also assuming the air-rifle has nothing to do with the case.

If the air-rifle was involved in the case it would certainly have been examined as an exhibit by an expert witness (ballistics) when prosecution had their opportunity.

Whilst I'm keen to get as much evidence together as possible in order to prove what I believe happened that night (i.e. that he deliberately shot and killed Reeva) I don't see the damaged window as being significant in trying to prove he was paranoid about being broken into. If the damage had been so that it would've given burglars an easy way of gaining access to the house, then yes, but from what I've seen (i.e. a fairly small hole), it doesn't appear to breach any security with the house .. a hole like that would be of no use whatsover to a burglar as they wouldn't be able to get through it, nor would they be able to put something through it in order to move a lock or a latch (I don't know where the door lock/latch is on those doors but it would be pretty difficult to get to with a coathanger or something like that, in fact I would say it would be an impossibility) .. like steveml said, it's no different to a letterbox (in fact many people's letterboxes probably have more security issues than that hole, depending on their security arrangements .. i.e. where they leave the key, etc, burglars have been known to put coathangers through letterboxes to get to those ). There's plenty other stuff, I think this window is a bit trival and detracts from some of the more major points.

 

[Viper]

No worries. Nel may well bring the matter up yet.

I would think it more of a security risk perhaps on an open estate, and I think that's what the local bobby would be referring to.
Burglars are very much opportunists, a house with a broken window may be chosen over another, not because they can get in through the window, but because it could suggest to them you don't take security too seriously, so your house would be easier to burgle than the neighbours.

As OP lives within gated security, the burglars have to bypass the fingerprint recognition system at the gates, gate security, the laser alarms, the razor wire, the dogs and then all that's left is the patrolling security guards at regular intervals.
They'd have to get through all that to even know there was a hole in the window.

BIB. That is what many here have been pointing out with regards to "Mr. Intruder"... :facepalm:

 

[steveml]

BIB. That is what many here have been pointing out with regards to "Mr. Intruder"... :facepalm:

I know...and your point is?

 

[minor4th]

Good afternoon. Just trying to catch up a bit, as I've been under the weather. So nothing earth shattering from the accused yet?

Sounds like the medical evidence was a bit of a wash.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

No worries. Nel may well bring the matter up yet.

I would think it more of a security risk perhaps on an open estate, and I think that's what the local bobby would be referring to.
Burglars are very much opportunists, a house with a broken window may be chosen over another, not because they can get in through the window, but because it could suggest to them you don't take security too seriously, so your house would be easier to burgle than the neighbours.

As OP lives within gated security, the burglars have to bypass the fingerprint recognition system at the gates, gate security, the laser alarms, the razor wire, the dogs and then all that's left is the patrolling security guards at regular intervals.
They'd have to get through all that to even know there was a hole in the window.

Ok
Well that would explain why he didn't need to be security conscious but then why on earth when hearing someone in the toilet didn't he presume it was Reeva . If he had his external alarms on intruder shouldn't have been his first reaction to a noise in the toilet disabled or not JMOO
I have no doubt Nel will make all points necessary in his cross examination if today's performance is anything to go by and no doubt we will here from a defence Psychologist.
If he is to convince a judge that his state of mind justified him shooting through that door then I think they are going to need to be an awful lot better than the pathologist today

 

[soozieqtips]

O/T - Peaches Geldof is dead at the age of 25.

 

[steveml]

Good afternoon. Just trying to catch up a bit, as I've been under the weather. So nothing earth shattering from the accuses yet?

Sounds like the medical evidence was a bit of a wash.

Yep, still contesting food digestion times, which I believe will always remain inconclusive.

 

[MeeBee]

Ok
Well that would explain why he didn't need to be security conscious but then why on earth when hearing someone in the toilet didn't he presume it was Reeva . If he had his external alarms on intruder shouldn't have been his first reaction to a noise in the toilet disabled or not JMOO
I have no doubt Nel will make all points necessary in his cross examination if today's performance is anything to go by and no doubt we will here from a defence Psychologist.
If he is to convince a judge that his state of mind justified him shooting through that door then I think they are going to need to be an awful lot better than the pathologist today

I'm very curious to hear what he has to say about why he didn't push the alarm button. That is one thing that bugs me. The only logical thing I can conclude is tunnel vision, going around OP's story, of course.

 

[Danta]

I agree. US citizen here. In some parts of the US the word "urban" is code for "black neighborhood" and is racially biased by proxy.

If I were a black person, I am sure I could be more clear in explaining why it is racially insensitive. I am not black, but it very much IS racially insensitive in some places.

ETA: Maybe it "shouldn't" be and certainly "isn't" to most white people. But to many (not all) blacks, it is racist.

This is what I was referring to as well and was searching for a published article to explain it further.

 

[MeeBee]

O/T - Peaches Geldof is dead at the age of 25.

I was just reading! Such a shock!

 

[zwiebel]

It's there to draw your own conclusions from certainly. If Nel thinks it's of any significance, he'll mention it.

In the grand scheme of things how does it even benefit a burglar? It's not even a valid security problem. A burglar can't exactly climb through it, unless he's got some unusual powers to make his body like a snake. It'd be as easy to try and get in through the letterbox.

Just saw this. I am a little small, with small limbs to match (luckily). I've lived in three houses where I could (and did) easily reach through the letterbox to turn the key I'd left inside the door. Just saying, because people don't usually think of that as a security issue but it can be.

 

[zwiebel]

I was just reading! Such a shock!

Oh no, I want that to be not true, but know it must be.