OK OK - Rev. Carol Daniels, 61, Anadarko, 23 Aug 2009

[Foxfire]

Thanks Foxfire, the video and pictures also show the nice memorial site for Carol. I wonder if LE tried "touch" DNA on her clothes. This case needs to be solved.

http://newsok.com/ministers-2009-brutal-slaying-remains-on-peoples-minds-in-anadarko/article/3843584

RE: touch DNA clothes;

Pastor Daniels' clothes were removed from the premises by the perp, colette. This is one of the primary indicators that point to an very experienced organized predator that is/was methodical and forensically aware. A calculating and cagey experienced organized malignant psychopathic predator; as was IK, will only leave undetectable residue in their wake that can't be seen, touched, or smelled; fear, rage, and terror.. imo..

Pastor Daniels' hair was also set ablaze and a chemical solvent sprayed on and around her body in an attempt to destroy touch dna and other forensic evidence. Not the work of a novice, imo..

IK was a chameleon of sorts; a hybrid emulator, and could fool even the most experienced homicide investigator/s. Psychopathic predators such as IK obviously do not think like we do, yet think very rapidly, and one hundred and eighty degrees from the norm, imo. This is why, imo, much of the info IK shared with FBI interrogators should be taken with a grain of salt. Sadly, imo, the truth of IK's evil trail of terror is much worse and more complicated than first thought.. jmo

Yes, colette, it is past time for truth, answers, and a semblance of Justice for Pastor Carol Daniels and her family.. Imo, awareness is the key and the only hope for bringing her case back to the forefront by investigators..
Imo, the dots have all been collected, simply not connected..

We don't know if IK is responsible for her heinous murder. IK was/is not the first, last, or only.. We do know that predators are recidivist and only become more empowered with each victim devoured..

 

[Foxfire]

Was thinking about the significance of Pastor Daniels' church being located in close proximity between the Anardarko Police Department(1/2 block away) and the Caddo County Sheriffs Department(2 blocks away).

Psychopathic predators are usually very brazen, narcissistic, and have a reason for everything they say, and everything they do. Imo, in 08/2009, Pastor Carol Daniels' murderer was also sending a vengeful subliminal message directly to Law Enforcement.

Although directly unrelated to this case, a similar incident happened in the Gaffney, SC spree/serial killer case 07/2009(the timing is an ironic coincidence). The drugged & brazened perp; a recently paroled violent inmate, murdered employees of a furniture store only a block form the Gaffney SC police station/Task Force Incident Command Center.


Gaffney Killer Slain Ending 5 Murder Spree
http://www.thestate.com/2009/07/07/854176/gaffney-killer-slain-ending-5.html

 

[colette]

Thanks Foxfire, I had forgotten that the killer took her clothes. I was looking back over earlier articles and noticed a picture of the large sign out front of the church. The killer had to either have seen Carol come and go into the church or knew her. The sign had "Elder C. Daniels" on the sign, not "Carol", so the killer had to have seen or known her previously.

I agree, the killer probably did wait for her in the church. The first agenda on the sign was morning Sunday school at 9:30 AM. There is a close-up of the sign on a video about the murder at 0.28 on the video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BYUqOcpHIc

Here is the article about the friend who found the front door locked as he came for Sunday school. http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=11006316

Since Carol had defense wounds and the killer used a knife, many times they are cut by their own blade during the act. I hope they tested any stray blood drops.

 

[Foxfire]

Thanks Foxfire, I had forgotten that the killer took her clothes. I was looking back over earlier articles and noticed a picture of the large sign out front of the church. The killer had to either have seen Carol come and go into the church or knew her. The sign had "Elder C. Daniels" on the sign, not "Carol", so the killer had to have seen or known her previously.

I agree, the killer probably did wait for her in the church. The first agenda on the sign was morning Sunday school at 9:30 AM. There is a close-up of the sign on a video about the murder at 0.28 on the video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BYUqOcpHIc

Here is the article about the friend who found the front door locked as he came for Sunday school. http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=11006316

Since Carol had defense wounds and the killer used a knife, many times they are cut by their own blade during the act. I hope they tested any stray blood drops.

Colette, yes it is easy to forget specifics after almost 5 years. I had forgotten about the sign info. Remember, Mr.R also said that he had warned Pastor Daniels about a stalker. IK would have performed a reconnaissance of the area before the planned attack, as he had done so many times before.

Seems, that I remember MR. R stating that the unknown suspect leaving the church was wearing dark gloves. Being forensically aware, IK would have worn gloves, which would also provide a better grip on the knife handle preventing slippage and cutting himself..

Imo, although possible, if the perp's dna was collected during CSI, the odds of Pastor Daniels' case remaining unsolved after almost 5 years would likely be negligible..

 

[colette]

Gloves are helpful but blood is very slippery and killers get cut all the time. (OJ Simpson) We can hope for some evidence, something to get this killer caught.

 

[Foxfire]

Gloves are helpful but blood is very slippery and killers get cut all the time. (OJ Simpson) We can hope for some evidence, something to get this killer caught.

Not to be argumentative, Colette, and I honor and respect your opinion, but OJ was a city slicker and first timer, imo, if responsible for the murders. Imo, it was familial dna that pointed to the likely person responsible.. just my perspective...

Fortunately, most budding serial killers in training are identified and captured after their first couple of victims or before, cutting their trails of terror short. Many times this is due to the careless errors of beginners..
IK was a hunter and had honed his skills for a decade, and maybe even longer..

Although different prey, as a country boy and five decades plus hunter, fisherman, and woodsman, myself and coming from a long line of hunters, fishermen, and woodsman. I can't recall a knife ever slipping and cutting myself, or other proficient hunters cutting themselves..

It is doubtful that IK would have remained stealth for years by committing such careless errors, imo. IK, was a hunter, a professional, and was very well read, experienced, and forensically aware, imo.. IK, violated his first rule of prey when he abducted Samantha Koenig; never ever impulsively abduct a victim close to your home... The last item on a prolific serial killer's bucket list is notoriety, imo. Serial killing is their greatest achievement in life for most of them. Unless caught, their story never gets told...

 

[Suthrnqt]

Not to be argumentative, Colette, and I honor and respect your opinion, but OJ was a city slicker and first timer, imo, if responsible for the murders. Imo, it was familial dna that pointed to the likely person responsible.. just my perspective...

Fortunately, most budding serial killers in training are identified and captured after their first couple of victims or before, cutting their trails of terror short. Many times this is due to the careless errors of beginners..
IK was a hunter and had honed his skills for a decade, and maybe even longer..

Although different prey, as a country boy and five decades plus hunter, fisherman, and woodsman, myself and coming from a long line of hunters, fishermen, and woodsman. I can't recall a knife ever slipping and cutting myself, or other proficient hunters cutting themselves..

It is doubtful that IK would have remained stealth for years by committing such careless errors, imo. IK, was a hunter, a professional, and was very well read, experienced, and forensically aware, imo.. IK, violated his first rule of prey when he abducted Samantha Koenig; never ever impulsively abduct a victim close to your home... The last item on a prolific serial killer's bucket list is notoriety, imo. Serial killing is their greatest achievement in life for most of them. Unless caught, their story never gets told...

ITA. IK was experienced and left nothing to chance. If, and that is a very big IF, IK had left some DNA at the scene, it would have been matched. MOO

 

[colette]

I am only saying it is very common for knife murderers to cut themselves, even wearing gloves. The other problem is there usually is so much blood in these types of murders, so it may be hard to tell the killer is cut unless they leave a separate blood trail.

I am not comparing this murder or IK murders to OJ, just bringing up a common example of a killer wearing gloves who was cut.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't normally quote myself, but this is a post I put up back in 2009. It gives a fairly accurate description of IK and his MO when I read it now. This is one case that haunts me.

9-03-2009 I think I will jump the gun on Pat and put up my take on the case that I did on the 30th.:

Something tells me that he is a stranger. I could be wrong, but it was my initial feeling when I saw this case. He went to great lengths to conceal his identity and to me it says he was confident about several things.

1) He took the time to rape (not saying it is certain as they have not said this), possibly torture, kill her, position her, and it would be my guess he staged the scene in other ways so he was comfortable about not getting caught. He even took time to lock the door meaning he was methodical.

2) His method of destroying DNA didn't come from watching CSI, imo. He researched it or had some prior knowledge. This isn't some homeless guy from the alley. (If he got the cleaning solution there...it took even more time to locate it.)

3) Leaving her nude body to be found was for humiliation, but it was also to send a message. Since she wore clothes specific to a Priest/Pastor, it means she was literally "defrocked" in her own church. The ultimate humiliation combined with the ultimate sacrifice.

4) I think this has less to do with religion and more to do with power. I don't see him as an anti-religious nut or angry with God type of thing. I see it as he wants people to be afraid which is why he struck in one of the most vulnerable places...a church. She was a woman in power and this was another reason, imo. I think she was gaining recognition in the community and could be how he became aware of her.

5) He must have known her schedule to be so confident about taking his time. If he had been watching her then it would indicate he had been in the area before on several occasions or lives within close range.

6) IMO, he was too comfortable in broad daylight with a limited way to escape which to me means this is may not be his first victim. It doesn't appear this guy was too concerned.

7) While taking the clothes could be for trophies, I believe it goes back to his knowledge of evidence. He took great pains to hide his identity. I would say he came prepared.

8) Not a random or opportunistic killing. She was targeted, but was not a Hate crime due to religion or race, imo.

 

[colette]

Good points. Although LE says she was not raped.

If it was IK, it would be a hate crime against a religious person (he hated religion).

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Good points. Although LE says she was not raped.

If it was IK, it would be a hate crime against a religious person (he hated religion).

If it was IK, it was not his main motivation so I have to respectfully disagree. If he killed all of his victims for religious reasons I would say it was a hate crime, but he killed for sport. The way he brutalized her and left her was to show his disdain for religion, but again...it wasn't his motive.

I just thought it was interesting even if I didn't get some things right to go back and see my thoughts initially since we are talking about IK being a possible suspect. His MO fits this case, imo.

 

[Foxfire]

Bumping <sniped BM> Comment:

Video Being Investigated In Pastor's Death
by kocotv4
Investigators are reviewing a surveillance video from across the street of a church in Anadarko where a minister was slain on Aug 23/2009.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-4BAMMnrRQ"]Video Being Investigated In Pastor's Death - YouTube[/ame]
_________________________________________

32/33 seconds into the video; emotions running very high between Pastor Carol Daniel's son & local LEO..
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BYUqOcpHIc"]Prosecutor Talks With Clergy About Slain Pastor - YouTube[/ame]
Prosecutor Talks With Clergy About Slain Pastor
_______________________________________________

Investigators have no suspects but are reviewing video surveillance ... and sending images to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation lab for enhancement.
Jack Levin, a professor of sociology and criminology at Northeastern University in Boston, said that the body was more than likely staged because “the killer wants the notoriety,” Levin said. “He knows that by staging the victim’s body, that it will freak out a population of people, terrify them. He intends to do it again and wants credit for what he’s done.”
__________________________________

"The most fatal injuries are those around her neck," said Manion, who analyzed the autopsy report at the request of the AP.

Several large gashes to Daniels' chest, along with stab wounds to her stomach and back, likely were inflicted after her death, Manion said, relying on notations written in hand on the report..
Investigators have said that whoever killed Daniels posed her body in an unnatural position, or "staged" it, but have declined to elaborate. The staging of the body is extremely rare, Manion said, and usually means the killer either wanted to thwart investigators or shock whoever discovered the body.

"It's something to repel and nauseate people, something very shocking to try and upset people investigating the crime," he said.


http://www.dreamindemon.com/2009/08...-in-her-church-her-body-staged/#disqus_thread

 

[Foxfire]

I am only saying it is very common for knife murderers to cut themselves, even wearing gloves. The other problem is there usually is so much blood in these types of murders, so it may be hard to tell the killer is cut unless they leave a separate blood trail.

I am not comparing this murder or IK murders to OJ, just bringing up a common example of a killer wearing gloves who was cut.

No worries, Collette...

Colette, there are specific knives for specific results/tasks. At the link below you can see photos of the knife of preference by IK; the Tanto cold steel folding knife. Most knives where handle slippage occurs and the user cuts themselves are generic all purpose or kitchen knives, etc.. The Tanto knife has a scalloped handle guard to prevent accidental grip slippage..

Tanto Recon Folding Knife
http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/27TLTH/RECON_1_TANTO_POINT_50_50_EDGE.aspx

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Evidently they did not get any information from the video across the street. He used the back door.

Notoriety? Credit? That isn't what made IK tick, imo. During the time IK was active, he was to be able to walk away from each murder with the ease of a professional hit man except for one. Notoriety in the end came from discussing some of his kills and the specifics of how he avoided detection (kill kits etc) in order to showcase what he considered his brilliance, but leaving a legacy of questions and horror behind to insure people would still be discussing him (or his unsolved cold cases) for years to come.

 

[Foxfire]

http://www.wcax.com/story/20302566/funeral-held-for-israel-keyes

Israel Keyes Funeral <fyi-additional Links for MSM articles on IK>

 

[Chicogirl36]

Slain preacher's body was in staged position, Anadarko investigator said

ANADARKO — Investigators found the body of the Rev. Carol Daniels in what appeared to be a staged position, The Oklahoman learned Wednesday from a source close to the investigation.

Details of Sunday's homicide have been closely guarded by authorities who are working to catch the killer or killers while trying to calm the fears of local residents.



http://newsok.com/slain-preachers-b...tigator-said/article/3396047?custom_click=rss

:thumbup:

Sent from my SCH-R720 using Tapatalk 2

 

[SeriouslySearching]

http://www.wcax.com/story/20302566/funeral-held-for-israel-keyes

Israel Keyes Funeral <fyi-additional Links for MSM articles on IK>

I am sure there is a reason for this being posted, but not clear on why exactly. If it is to show he rejected organized religion, I get that. But it still doesn't mean her death was a hate crime. Want to fill me in here?

"Her murder was an evil act of someone who does not value the sanctity of life."

http://newsok.com/slain-preachers-b...tigator-said/article/3396047?custom_click=rss

 

[Foxfire]

I am sure there is a reason for this being posted, but not clear on why exactly. If it is to show he rejected organized religion, I get that. But it still doesn't mean her death was a hate crime. Want to fill me in here?

"Her murder was an evil act of someone who does not value the sanctity of life."

SeriouslySearching, my comment was not to suggest that her death was a hate crime. I primarily posted the article to highlight the statement made by IK to his sister, "You don't know what I have done. You don't know the depths of darkness I've gone too. You don't know what I've done"..

SS, imo, the motives for Pastor Carol Daniels' heinous murder are many, and very complex. IK was a very sadistic and escalated ritualistic serial killer, imo. If responsible, there would have been a two hour window of opportunity for him to play God that tragic day in Anardarko, OK; 08/24/2009...

SS, ironically, when I clicked the msm article link from your reply
I was directed to the following msm article;

Slain Preacher's Body was in staged position
http://newsok.com/slain-preachers-b...tigator-said/article/3396047?custom_click=rss

Then, when I clicked Read More I was directed to this link;

Legacy Guestbook - Pastor Carol Daniels
http://www.legacy.com/guestbooks/oklahoman/carol-daniels-condolences/131834205?#sthash.DrXIlKuC.dpbs

 

[Foxfire]

<Respectfully Snipped by me>

I'm glad this thread is up and running - days, weeks, months went by and it was so quiet.

The IK theory is enticing though I do wonder how seriously one should take the confessions of a killer.

wfgodot, never ever, ever take the confessions of a psychopathic serial killer at his word. I thought it very interesting that the FBI agents confused the words of IK as being truthful.. An example is when IK acted as though he did not know Ted Bundy's birthplace was Burlington, VT., where he abducted/murdered the Curriers. IK looked up to Bundy, and was intelligent, meticulous, and confident. IK would have known this commonly known bit of trivia, imo...
Imo, the timeline released by the FBI is incomplete at best. IK was a master at deception and played them like a fiddle for decades and continues to do so, imo...

wfgodot, thank you and the other caring websleuths members for keeping this thread up and running, and shining the light on Pastor Carol Daniels' case.

Awareness is the key in missing/murdered person's investigations. The interest and comments by others on the ws forum as well as in cyberspace due to social media awareness has increased the views on this thread significantly in the past couple of days; 600+ views..

Although, last I heard, there is a cold case detective assigned to her case. The ms media has grown silent. Guess, many are hoping that this case will either solve itself via FBI BAU2 VICAP, forensics, or simply be forgotten..

I've contacted all the OK MS Media outlets that originally covered the PCD murder & investigation seeking answers as to the silence and lack of investigative updates.
The five year anniversary of PCD's tragic murder is only a few months away.

Whether or not IK is responsible at this juncture is only important to provide answers to her family, and to show the community that he is no longer recidivist..
If PCD's murderer is other than IK, then he will continue preying on unsuspecting innocent victims until apprehended and brought to justice, as did sadistic psychopath Kevin Sweat, after the Weleeta, OK, Slayings of Skyla Whitaker and Taylor Placker..


Weleeta, OK Slayings
http://newsok.com/news/weleetkaslayings

 

[SeriouslySearching]

SeriouslySearching, my comment was not to suggest that her death was a hate crime. I primarily posted the article to highlight the statement made by IK to his sister, "You don't know what I have done. You don't know the depths of darkness I've gone too. You don't know what I've done"..

SS, imo, the motives for Pastor Carol Daniels' heinous murder are many, and very complex. IK was a very sadistic and escalated ritualistic serial killer, imo. If responsible, there would have been a two hour window of opportunity for him to play God that tragic day in Anardarko, OK; 08/24/2009...

SS, ironically, when I clicked the msm article link from your reply
I was directed to the following msm article;

Slain Preacher's Body was in staged position
http://newsok.com/slain-preachers-b...tigator-said/article/3396047?custom_click=rss

Then, when I clicked Read More I was directed to this link;

Legacy Guestbook - Pastor Carol Daniels
http://www.legacy.com/guestbooks/oklahoman/carol-daniels-condolences/131834205?#sthash.DrXIlKuC.dpbs

Ah so we are on the same page.