Hailey Dunn: General Discussion thread #3

[Suthrnqt]

Bumping for Hailey....

 

[PPKik]

I'm not sure that LE investigating the case had any more than the usual amount of blindness toward suspects beyond the obvious one. I've seen cases in my area go the same way for the same reason, but if they've done their homework otherwise, they can go back to square one and see where the evidence leads.

If she was taken and killed by somebody outside the immediate family, the case becomes much more difficult to prove.

I agree with your post completely, except for the "local LE in Hailey's case having no more than the usual amount of blindness toward suspects beyond the obvious ones."

Even for LE, the amount of mistakes they made in Hailey's case is staggering, starting from assuming for ten or eleven days she was a runaway, and then not asking for outside help when they knew they needed it.

I have often wondered how much negative influence Pete Kampfer had, as he seemed to take over for the Colorado City PD as spokesman, and who knows what else. Was he running the PD?

I wish LE (who? Scurry Co.?) would go back to square one, too. I have written often that I believe this is the only way to possibly find out what happened. Starting with re-interviewing all family and extended family and so called family, and making sense of the huge amount of conflicting stories many gave, would be a good start.

Why neither the Texas Rangers nor the feds did this is beyond me to understand. There was a point during which the FBI claimed they were the lead investigators, yet they did absolutely nothing to further solve Hailey's case. If they had, I don't believe this case would be cold as it seems to be today.

Definitely if this murder wa done by an outsider, it would be more difficult without any evidence or witnesses. What literally makes me sick is LE did not look at that possibility, in the eventuality it wasn't their "easy suspect."


"The responding police officers' initial assessment will have a great impact on the outcome of a missing child case. The attitude or approach that the officers take in the initial response to the missing child call actually may determine if the child is recovered and returned home safely, remains missing, or, worse yet, is found dead. No other criminal investigation is as time sensitive as this kind of case...."

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/2000-pdfs/nov00leb.pdf

 

[Tugela]

But LE DID view the tapes, correct? If Hailey had been at the motel, wouldn't she also have been on the tapes? IIRC, LE never reported that Hailey appeared on any of the tapes.
What is the motivation behind LE purposely keeping a possible suspect from the parents and the public?
I am all for conspiracy theories, but in this case, I sincerely think you are grasping at straws. jmo

No phantom suspects, just the same POI(s) since Hailey disappeared.
:moo: :moo: :moo:

That is not necessarily the point. If someone connected to her disappearance was at the motel, they would have appeared on the video (perhaps) even though HD did not. If the parents particularly wanted to see those tapes, they might have been expecting to perhaps see someone they knew. If those suspicions were not communicated to LE for whatever reason, LE would not know who they should be looking for on the tapes, and if the parents were not given, or given very limited access, then a potential suspect could have been missed.

In any case, if HD had gone there to meet up with someone, she may not have gone onto the property itself, just near it, while the person she was meeting was on the property. If that happened, she would not have appeared on security cameras, but the other individual could well have.

 

[Tugela]

Then it should have been easy for LE to prove that she was seen that day IF that was true. As for anyone close to the family being a POI well Shawn was close to a member of the family so that's true enough especially as hes the only named POI.

I doubt he was referring to SA, there is no way he would have been so ambivalent towards him if that had been the case.

 

[Tugela]

I think there must be some big piece of evidence that points to Sean's noninvolvement, or some missing piece that ought to be there. They had their eye on him from the beginning but it seemed like none of the things that pointed to him panned out on investigation.

As far as SA is concerned, IMO they established that HD was alive that day, and that SA's account of what he did during the day was substantially correct. Once that happened, they really had no cause to investigate him further since the timeframes available for something to have happened were too small.

They probably did not have much respect for him as a man, but that is not sufficient grounds to charge anyone with something.

I think that is pretty much why the investigation stalled....he was their only option, and once he got removed from the picture they had no where else to follow up on.

 

[Tugela]

I am glad you brought up the child *advertiser censored* that wasn't.

That is a perfect example of what LE did to try to "make their case" without doing any work. They knew there was no child *advertiser censored*, yet when that shocking announcement came from LE, most people believed there was disgusting child *advertiser censored*, and that that was "proof of guilt."

I believe LE (Mitchel Co. and C-City particularly) in their incompetent laziness thought that would force a "confession."

It sickens me to this day that the originators of that lie never cleared it up by making a big announcement that there was never any child *advertiser censored*. There are still many people, including an unmentionable blogger who knows better, still perpetuating this lie because it suits their purpose. If only LE had done their jobs in the beginning, at the very least, a killer would have been caught and Hailey would the justice everyone wants her to have, in my opinion.

Actually, Det. Alexander said there was none in an interview about a year after. I don't think the CCPD had anything to do with those claims, it was all Toombs. And we can't really be sure he actually claimed that specifically either, it could well have been a reporter getting things mixed up.

What we do know is that Toombs never corrected it if he had been misquoted, and that he later got search warrants based on very dubious arguments regarding CP. I don't think they ever expected to charge SA with anything in that regard, it was more like they were deliberately being dense in order to get warrants to search places SA had been in the hopes of finding something related to HDs disappearance (since they likely no longer had probable cause for that on the merits of their evidence collected thus far). Sort of a fishing expedition.

 

[PPKik]

That is not necessarily the point. If someone connected to her disappearance was at the motel, they would have appeared on the video (perhaps) even though HD did not. If the parents particularly wanted to see those tapes, they might have been expecting to perhaps see someone they knew. If those suspicions were not communicated to LE for whatever reason, LE would not know who they should be looking for on the tapes, and if the parents were not given, or given very limited access, then a potential suspect could have been missed.

In any case, if HD had gone there to meet up with someone, she may not have gone onto the property itself, just near it, while the person she was meeting was on the property. If that happened, she would not have appeared on security cameras, but the other individual could well have.

BBM

That is exactly what I was trying to say!

As for why Hailey was not on the tapes, what you say could be the reason, although supposedly the dogs hit inside.

There could be many reasons.

LE, under the city manager, Kampfer's, iron control, never gave out any information they should have in order to help Hailey, and they gave out a lot they should not have, which harmed the investigation, in my opinion.

Certain "investigators" in the DA's office talking to a disturbed blogger (by his account, if even true) is only one example of many instances of police misconduct.

The lies about the child *advertiser censored* is another.

What about only releasing what LE claimed where two of SA's pings. Why just his?

Why not the phone BJD left at home? The one several neighbors saw Hailey talking on that Monday?

My posts are my opinions and may not to be copied and taken off Websleuths and posted elsewhere.

 

[For The Kids]

BBM

That is exactly what I was trying to say!

As for why Hailey was not on the tapes, what you say could be the reason, although supposedly the dogs hit inside.

There could be many reasons.

LE, under the city manager, Kampfer's, iron control, never gave out any information they should have in order to help Hailey, and they gave out a lot they should not have, which harmed the investigation, in my opinion.

Certain "investigators" in the DA's office talking to a disturbed blogger (by his account, if even true) is only one example of many instances of police misconduct.

The lies about the child *advertiser censored* is another.

What about only releasing what LE claimed where two of SA's pings. Why just his?

Why not the phone BJD left at home? The one several neighbors saw Hailey talking on that Monday?

My posts are my opinions and may not to be copied and taken off Websleuths and posted elsewhere.

One thing I don't understand about the child *advertiser censored* and there being none Billie said herself in an interview with the media that LE showed her some of it so if there was none where did that come from that she was shown?

 

[PPKik]

One thing I don't understand about the child *advertiser censored* and there being none Billie said herself in an interview with the media that LE showed her some of it so if there was none where did that come from that she was shown?

I remember that and I don't know. My guess is they showed her some random *advertiser censored*. She also said she saw some pics where there were kids in a bathtub. That doesn't sound like child *advertiser censored* to me.

The thing is, if there had been any, I believe there would have been arrests. And LE did very, very quietly admit there was none.

How it went from 109,000 deviant images to none is something only LE can answer, but like the mess of the investigation itself, and the lack of any real acknowledgement that they are still working Hailey's case, I find their manipulative and lazy attitude very discouraging.

There is still a lot they could be doing, imo (like re-interviewing all key players and the RSOs they never interviewed), even if Hailey's remains contain no evidence, which is what, sadly, I think is the case.

 

[carbuff]

One thing I don't understand about the child *advertiser censored* and there being none Billie said herself in an interview with the media that LE showed her some of it so if there was none where did that come from that she was shown?

Who knows? They might have told her it was his when it wasn't, to try to jolt her into revealing something. There's no law that says LE can't lie to you and I suspect a lot of that happened in this case.

 

[Tugela]

Who knows? They might have told her it was his when it wasn't, to try to jolt her into revealing something. There's no law that says LE can't lie to you and I suspect a lot of that happened in this case.

I think it more likely was them trying to convince her that he was a bad guy who did something to her daughter, and therefore she should come up with something incriminating, true or not, to get "justice".

If you look at it that way, it is just another piece in an attempt to "solve" the case by gathering evidence that backed up their gut feeling while ignoring that which did not.

I think they got her playing along for a while, but then she realized what they were up to, especially once she had an opportunity to see what the facts really were. My guess is that she figured out that SA probably had nothing to do with it, and after that she didn't trust the sheriff anymore.

Now she has broken up with SA, and so does not mind throwing a few darts his way from time to time, but still doesn't really know who killed HD.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Now she has broken up with SA, and so does not mind throwing a few darts his way from time to time, but still doesn't really know who killed HD.

Sure she does, SA, the only POI. There are no phantom suspects, just Shawn.
:facepalm:
:moo: :moo: :moo:

 

[Suthrnqt]

Adkins was Billie's "live-in boyfriend" before, during, and after the crime was committed, with the "during" being the most significant point in time. IMO, its quite accurate that he's referred to as such. While there may be issues some believe indicate a clueless LE, this IMO, cannot be twisted into being an indicator of their "not having a clue". Jmo.

ITA. ullhair

 

[For The Kids]

I think it more likely was them trying to convince her that he was a bad guy who did something to her daughter, and therefore she should come up with something incriminating, true or not, to get "justice".

If you look at it that way, it is just another piece in an attempt to "solve" the case by gathering evidence that backed up their gut feeling while ignoring that which did not.

I think they got her playing along for a while, but then she realized what they were up to, especially once she had an opportunity to see what the facts really were. My guess is that she figured out that SA probably had nothing to do with it, and after that she didn't trust the sheriff anymore.

Now she has broken up with SA, and so does not mind throwing a few darts his way from time to time, but still doesn't really know who killed HD.

Considering she had called LE and told them that Shawn was threatening to kill her before Hailey ever went missing I suspect she knows for herself that " he was a bad guy" and from all accounts she wasn't the only one he threatened.

 

[PPKik]

Considering she had called LE and told them that Shawn was threatening to kill her before Hailey ever went missing I suspect she knows for herself that " he was a bad guy" and from all accounts she wasn't the only one he threatened.

BBM

What does "from all accounts she wasn't the only one threatened mean"? Whose accounts and who was threatened? Is this recorded anywhere or hearsay?

 

[Tugela]

Considering she had called LE and told them that Shawn was threatening to kill her before Hailey ever went missing I suspect she knows for herself that " he was a bad guy" and from all accounts she wasn't the only one he threatened.

She didn't call LE because he was threatening to kill her, she called LE because she thought he was going to take her stuff. The "threat" was incidental to that, one of apparently many things she said to LE, so much so that they were getting annoyed with her.

The "threat" was almost certainly one of those idle comments people make when they are fighting verbally. It was not a real threat. My take on that story is that it was something she threw in to get LE to act on her behalf to stop SA from taking anything from her house.

There is nothing in MSN to suggest that SA was violent. The only story of a physical incident was an account by the GM of an altercation between SA and CD at some point in the past, and according to her story SA was abysmally incompetent as a fighter, she described him pretty much as a joke they laughed at. You might think that as evidence of his "violent nature", but what it tells me is that he is the sort of guy who has no experience at all fighting, and probably he had been taunted until he lost his temper. With guys like that, he might on occasion get mad, but it very rarely gets violent, and when it does those they do not present a threat typically.

If you look at BD it is pretty clear that she is an aggressive, controlling woman when it comes to men (both SA and CD seem like the quite submissive type when it comes to their relationships) who insists of having things done her way and on her terms. I seriously doubt that she would have stuck around with any man if he was abusing her in some way, especially if she was the breadwinner. That type of woman simply does not do that. She just does not seem like the doormat type at all.

 

[For The Kids]

She didn't call LE because he was threatening to kill her, she called LE because she thought he was going to take her stuff. The "threat" was incidental to that, one of apparently many things she said to LE, so much so that they were getting annoyed with her.

The "threat" was almost certainly one of those idle comments people make when they are fighting verbally. It was not a real threat. My take on that story is that it was something she threw in to get LE to act on her behalf to stop SA from taking anything from her house.

There is nothing in MSN to suggest that SA was violent. The only story of a physical incident was an account by the GM of an altercation between SA and CD at some point in the past, and according to her story SA was abysmally incompetent as a fighter, she described him pretty much as a joke they laughed at. You might think that as evidence of his "violent nature", but what it tells me is that he is the sort of guy who has no experience at all fighting, and probably he had been taunted until he lost his temper. With guys like that, he might on occasion get mad, but it very rarely gets violent, and when it does those they do not present a threat typically.

If you look at BD it is pretty clear that she is an aggressive, controlling woman when it comes to men (both SA and CD seem like the quite submissive type when it comes to their relationships) who insists of having things done her way and on her terms. I seriously doubt that she would have stuck around with any man if he was abusing her in some way, especially if she was the breadwinner. That type of woman simply does not do that. She just does not seem like the doormat type at all.

You don't think its violent when someone threatens to kill someone? I do for sure. Saying that I agree with what you say about Billie. I just don't think Shawn is a little teddy bear.

 

[kirby]

She didn't call LE because he was threatening to kill her, she called LE because she thought he was going to take her stuff. The "threat" was incidental to that, one of apparently many things she said to LE, so much so that they were getting annoyed with her.

The "threat" was almost certainly one of those idle comments people make when they are fighting verbally. It was not a real threat. My take on that story is that it was something she threw in to get LE to act on her behalf to stop SA from taking anything from her house.

There is nothing in MSN to suggest that SA was violent. The only story of a physical incident was an account by the GM of an altercation between SA and CD at some point in the past, and according to her story SA was abysmally incompetent as a fighter, she described him pretty much as a joke they laughed at. You might think that as evidence of his "violent nature", but what it tells me is that he is the sort of guy who has no experience at all fighting, and probably he had been taunted until he lost his temper. With guys like that, he might on occasion get mad, but it very rarely gets violent, and when it does those they do not present a threat typically.

If you look at BD it is pretty clear that she is an aggressive, controlling woman when it comes to men (both SA and CD seem like the quite submissive type when it comes to their relationships) who insists of having things done her way and on her terms. I seriously doubt that she would have stuck around with any man if he was abusing her in some way, especially if she was the breadwinner. That type of woman simply does not do that. She just does not seem like the doormat type at all.

I've lived 60+ years and never had my life threatened. How could threatening to kill someone be an idle comment? A normal, sane person does not threaten to take a loved one's life.

 

[Justice4HaileyDunn]

Per the 911 call, links attached:


**BD's Verbal Statement
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/19/ng.01.html


BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BILLIE DUNN, HAILEY`S MOTHER: I really need to file a report on somebody, and I don`t have a car to get down there.
911 OPERATOR: What exactly happened?
BILLIE DUNN: I broke up with this guy a couple of days ago, and he`s a little MHMR (ph). And he`s telling me that he`s going to kill me and my ex-husband and that it`s going to be remembered for a long time. And he keeps on texting me and texting me. And I`ve texted back just to try to calm him down a little, but he said it`s going to happen.

______


**SA's Verbal Statement:
http://www.examiner.com/article/sti...s-safe-return-shawn-adkins-breaks-his-silence


TIFFANY TATRO: So now let’s kind of – first of all – let’s talk about Hailey. You said there’s never been anything that’s been taken out on her but yet back to the affidavits you admitted that there was a threat made to Billie and to Hailey.

SHAWN ADKINS: Uh, no, uh, no, those affidavits. I read those and that was incorrect. I never made any threats towards Hailey, it was just towards Billie.

TIFFANY TATRO: Tell me a little about those 911 calls that were released.

SHAWN ADKINS: Those were made probably like a year-and-a-half ago. Me and Billie were split up but, you know, we still had feelings for each other but a lot of things were just not working out. Things got bad sometimes and that was one of those times that got bad.

TIFFANY TATRO: Now in the 911 calls one of those was released. Billie said you were going to go to her house and that she wanted an officer there because she didn’t trust you to be in her house when David was there. So if she wasn’t trusting, there had to be a reason why she didn’t want you there when she wasn’t there.

SHAWN ADKINS: Billie and I were having problems. That was the same day, I do believe, we were just having problems and I just felt like Billie was going to harm herself. I just felt obligated to call the police and let them know. Maybe do a welfare check because I was worried about her.

______


**
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/jan/12/inconsistenciesstrange-145hobbies/


Documents the Reporter-News obtained from Mitchell County Judge Ray Mayo highlight multiple inconsistencies in what Shawn Adkins, boyfriend of Billie Jean Dunn, reported to authorities about the disappearance of 13-year-old Hailey Dunn, and they provide insight into the private life of the girl's mother and others associated with the case.

Adkins initially said that he did not threaten the girl and her mother, but then later confirmed that "he did in fact threaten the lives of Both Billie Jean Dunn and Hailey Dunn."

 

[sophiebelle]

One big screwed up mess is what I see. I disagree with Marc Klaas' statement, I do think BD was in denial. Had she been able to stop being concerned about her love life, and had she taken a big step backwards, she would have been able to think clearly. I don't think that happened during that time. Hailey drew the short straw on parenting, and with all the drama and messed up lives, this case was bungled. I see one victim here: Hailey.