Trial Discussion Thread #33 - 14.05.05 Day 26

[JuneBug67]

I will still choose to believe his words over the words of a confessed killer. Baba was just a security guard that was doing his job that night. Is he part of the "it runs deep" conspiracy too?

It is more a matter of whether you believe Baba's words or Baba's words. It was he who first characterized OP as having said 'he was okay'. OP never claimed anything about the phone call other than the fact that he didn't remember it. I don't think he is maliciously lying but mixing up the order of the calls when you've really got a pretty short story to tell was a hell of a thing. I'm just not sure about his reliability on the point. Regardless, all either statement really adds up to is "I don't need you here". Which was true.

 

[shane13]

Thanks, Shane. So did he contradict his statement and/or the bill of particulars (which I can't find) or not? Also, I haven't been able to watch the trial so I'm not sure whether that's Nel or Roux. If Nel, do you have the cross or know the day and session? Thanks again

That's Roux.
If you mean Baba's statement to the police, I have not seen that. But I would not worry about a minor discrepancy because of the language and translation problem.

Clearly Baba is adamant and takes over from the translator and says what he heard from OP.

 

[Karmady]

He literally blew her brains out. No need to use the remaining bullets in the magazine.

The OP I was responding to said he did everything in his power to make sure she died before help came. My point was that he could easily have shot her a few more times if it was his goal to make absolutely certain she died on the spot. jmo

 

[ColonelMustard]

I just realized that maybe Roux thought so too?
And he was expecting a longer cross from Nel against both of them, and was why he did not schedule another witness today?

i DO believe you're right!! Roux actually said that he thought the cross for those two was going to take all day. He didn't have them on them stand long so he absolutely thought Nel would be drilling them. Surprise!! "I have no more for this witness, M'lady" followed in quick succession by "I have no more for this witness, M'lady"

Roux was caught with his pants down and M'Lady was NOT happy about it.

All points for Nel!

 

[shane13]

What do you makes of the translator, even though he does answer in English?

Isn't it possible that there could be some meaning lost with time and between languages?

See above and my interpretation.
Cleartly Baba was not happy and wanted to leave no doubt as to what Oscar said in English, so he took over from the translator.

 

[TorisMom003]

I thought that OP testified that MR. Stander was the one that told him to put Reeva down and that he asked MR. Stander to take Reeva to the hospital. So why is MS. Stander taking credit for those things in her testimony?

 

[ColonelMustard]

Something that struck me as odd today was the fact that whilst at Oscar's Stander asked Stipp if he'd heard anything(as in gunshots), just strikes me as odd that he would ask him that, what does it matter at that point?.

Agree.

 

[shane13]

I thought that OP testified that MR. Stander was the one that told him to put Reeva down and that he asked MR. Stander to take Reeva to the hospital. So why is MS. Stander taking credit for those things in her testimony?

Good catch, if true.
Would be good to find proof of that.
If so, it shows they're all colluding but messed up. MOO

 

[DebinGA]

The OP I was responding to said he did everything in his power to make sure she died before help came. My point was that he could easily have shot her a few more times if it was his goal to make absolutely certain she died on the spot. jmo

That was me. I think OP killed Reeva with the bathroom light ON, on purpose, not mindlessly. He was thinking clearly enough to know pumping her full of black talons would be impossible to explain. Shooting 4 times will hopefully send him away for a long time. He didn't seek help for Reeva asap. He dawdled, thinking furiously about how best to save himself, as she bled out imo.

 

[Karmady]

That's Roux.
If you mean Baba's statement to the police, I have not seen that. But I would not worry about a minor discrepancy because of the language and translation problem.

Clearly Baba is adamant and takes over from the translator and says what he heard from OP.

For me it would matter how his statement was given. If Baba wrote his statement in his own hand, for example, and it says that Oscar said "I'm fine," I would have a hard time not rejecting his current testimony over a statement given shortly after the incident.

 

[Fuskier]

Stander is doing a lot of pro-OP editorialising. Without being asked, he went on about how genuine OP's apparent grief was!!??

Apologies for late post, but just going through thread now. Yes, I noticed that too. It crossed my mind whether reading WS threads had occurred over the past week, i.e. getting the gist of questions/queries, then emphasizing what needed to be emphasized.
MOO.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Interesting article about 'M'lady' from the New Yorker. If I were innocent, I'd be happy to have my fate in her hands. Guilty, not so much. Admirable woman IMO. Horrifying rape statistic in this BTW - knew it was bad, but every 17 seconds!

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2014/05/the-woman-who-will-judge-oscar-pistorius.html

Thanks for this!

 

[Karmady]

That was me. I think OP killed Reeva with the bathroom light ON, on purpose, not mindlessly. He was thinking clearly enough to know pumping her full of black talons would be impossible to explain. Shooting 4 times will hopefully send him away for a long time. He didn't seek help for Reeva asap. He dawdled, thinking furiously about how best to save himself, as she bled out imo.

ok, but in my defense, I think that's a little different than what you posted originally -- that he stalled for time to think v. to make absolutely sure she died before help arrived.

 

[ColonelMustard]

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-trial-estate-manager-weeps-he-testifies

"“He was torn apart. Broken. Desperate. Pleading…. And his commitment to save the young lady’s life… How he begged her to stay with him, how he begged God to keep her alive,” Stander said, weeping...."

BBM;
Who talks like that instead of decribing what he saw?
That sounds rehearsed and disingenuous.
MOO

Yup...

 

[sorrell skye]

It was Mr. Stander that said he couldn't get 911 to understand the urgency. Both Mr. Stander and Carice testified that after OP asked to drive her to the hospital Carice insisted he put her down and that Mr. Stander said he would call for an ambulance. Neither said OP told them them already called.

You are correct, GT.

Not only do I find it curious that OP apparently didn't inform Stander or Carice that he'd already called Netcare (911), but I find the length of OP's phone call to 911 compared to the length of Stipp's/Stander's phone call to 911 to be particularly curious, as well.

1. OP's call to Netcare: 66 seconds (per phone records)

2. Stipp's/Stander's call to Netcare: about 5 minutes (per Stander's testimony)

Many of us here have wondered how much detail OP may have given the Netcare dispatcher and have been skeptical that he provided accurate details regarding Reeva's injuries during that extremely short span of time.

Now we have Stander's testimony wherein he stated he was on the phone with a Netcare dispatcher for approximately 5 minutes while he described Reeva's injuries, as well as provided information regarding the address.

A point of contention for me is that I believe Dr. Stipp was, in reality, the one who initiated the call for medical aid, and not Stander.

According to Stander's testimony, during the ~ 5 minute phone call, Stander (IMO, more likely Dr. Stipp) was insistent that an ambulance was needed straight away due to Reeva's grave injuries. I personally believe that Stander's only contribution during the 911 phone call was to provide an address to the dispatcher after Dr. Stipp handed the phone to him.

By contrast, OP's phone call to Netcare lasted 66 seconds. No ambulance was dispatched as a result of OP's phone call.

66 seconds compared to ~ 5 minutes.

As far as I'm concerned, the 4 minute difference between OP's call and Stipp's/Stander's call to Netcare says it all.

Dr. Stipp & Stander were seeking medical help for Reeva (although it took Dr. Stipp to inquire about and to initiate the call).

IMO, OP was merely going through the motions of contacting emergency medical aid. I don't believe he informed the dispatcher about the nature of Reeva's injuries. I have doubts that he even spoke to a Netcare dispatcher. For all I know, he may have simply dialed the number, left his phone wherever, and then hung up a minute later.

Think about it: 66 seconds compared to ~ 5 minutes.

That's a huge time difference.

 

[Viper]

The OP I was responding to said he did everything in his power to make sure she died before help came. My point was that he could easily have shot her a few more times if it was his goal to make absolutely certain she died on the spot. jmo

Reeva was dead before "help came."

If you believe Carise and her story that Reeva was bleeding and alive until the paramedics pronounced her dead at 3:50, then I have oceanfront property in Colorado that you may be interested in purchasing.

OP shot her enough times, more than once, to make sure that her blood curdling screams stopped. That goes to premeditation BTW.

 

[JuneBug67]

For me it would matter how his statement was given. If Baba wrote his statement in his own hand, for example, and it says that Oscar said "I'm fine," I would have a hard time not rejecting his current testimony over a statement given shortly after the incident.

Baba explained the discrepancy relative to his first written statement by saying he was tired at the end of a long shift when he first provided it. I think he said though that he communicated his eventual testimony orally to to police at some point.

 

[ColonelMustard]

I think it's a pretty safe bet that someone thought of that already

I hope so! Can't wait to hear it!

 

[shane13]

The whole thing was obviously an act alas because all could see some of her brains were outside of her head.
I am talking about "God save her" etc. Clearly she was dead. And horrifically we still don't know till we get Netcare records if anyone besides Dr Stipp called an ambulance, or do we?

 

[katydid23]

If it's in the BOP, how/why in the world is it posted here over and over as "everything is fine?" Is the bill of particulars available. I haven't been able to find it by googling. TIA

Because the DT is claiming that Botha is misremembering, and that OP actually said " I am fine."