GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #4

[minor4th]

Now listening to Dr Obregon - this doctor is still in his fellowship. That doesn't mean he's not a qualified doctor, but it surprised me that he has not finished his training.

 

[zoey]

Now listening to Dr Obregon - this doctor is still in his fellowship. That doesn't mean he's not a qualified doctor, but it surprised me that he has not finished his training.

He gets better after lunch

 

[Jewels53]

Thanks, Nymeria. I'll be watching. :seeya:


I just want to clarify what I said about JS murdering her children before.
That MD tried to adjust her meds from what JS told him of her symptoms, from what I understood from the Tweets today, and accept for the Tardive Dyskensia symptoms, which he could probably see for himself, he took her words for the truth, IMO. He just couldn't take her off all the drugs at once, so he adjusted as she told him her side-affects. She was on meds- I don't remember how many and what they were, before this MD became one of her MDs. Did she have other Mds where she received other drugs, too? Maybe we will see more Mds??

JS denied any psychotic episodes or symptoms, told him she hasn't been going to AA meetings, denied having suicide or homicidal thoughts, she craved oxy (why? was she having pain? Oxy is for pain? Did she just want the rush that the oxy gives? Oxi makes me throw-up and feel sick), and placed a lot of reliance on what she reported to him.

The MD asked Julie 2x to sign release allowing him to share info w/ Parker Schenecker- both times she refused- warned her repeatedly about the risks of mixing prescription drugs & alcohol- "telling her at every juncture to limit or abstain from alcohol", and warned her that mixing drugs w alcohol could make her stay in bed all day. He was concerned that the alcohol use was interfering with treatment. He couldn't , physically, take the alcohol away from her.
The housekeeper/maid said she "hid' her alcohol use from her husband and probably others, IMO.

Yes, she was depressed and needed help, I realize that. If the MD couldn't tell Parker what JS said to him, how could Parker actually help her? Could he commit her himself? On what grounds? Parker did get her help by having the mother come to stay with her and from what I heard, JS didn't want her there (and called her a *advertiser censored*!).

Who is responsible her- her MD, her husband?? What about JS- was she too far gone on booze and meds to understand what she had to do to get her life back on the right track? I think, and I don't really know, so don't throw tomatoes- OK- just a thought: If she was really depressed and nothing was helping her- no pills, talks, etc., why didn't she just listen to the MD and check herself into the psych hospital; they would be able to monitor her pill use, there would be no alcohol, or for that matter, the stressors of everyday life, and she would have people who would take care of her 'til she was well- all the while talking to Mds to figure out what is really going on with her depression and her life. No one can "fix/overcome" what they do not accept as the "problem' that is causing their depression. If JS does not want help and she "has it", well what can others do to help her? Depression is a terrible thing to have.

I need more info- to say she was insane at the time she shot her children, IMO. I need the MDs who first diagnosed her with whatever she is said to have/had, also.

I'm still holding my "judgement" for her insanity plea 'til the trial is over now.

Kimi- thanks for the photos of JS. I think her jaw may just look like she clenches it all the time, IMO- stress?

Y or N this is jmo but I think JS didn't want to quit drinking, she liked the euphoria and how it made her feel. I think that is why she wanted the oxy also. I don't think she had any pain meds left though.

If she went to any treatment it meant she would have to give up the things that made her feel better. IDK but maybe this is why she went downhill.

I have never had that problem with alcohol.

 

[Nore]

Can you imagine the profound effect the murders of the Schenecker children had on Dr. Obregon? From the witnesses we have heard so far, no one saw this coming. This just underscores how deceptive the depth of MI is even to those that work in the field. IMO

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Hi Zuri! I am trying to get caught up on this trial. I was sck and missed so much. I have a hard time figuring how she because so vicious so soon. I know one thing, no one drinks with those meds without a reaction. I dont think she is truly insane but it is brought on by combining those two factors. I would never trus her on the outside again. IMO ...Miss you :loveyou:

 

[Zuri]

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Hi Zuri! I am trying to get caught up on this trial. I was sck and missed so much. I have a hard time figuring how she because so vicious so soon. I know one thing, no one drinks with those meds without a reaction. I dont think she is truly insane but it is brought on by combining those two factors. I would never trus her on the outside again. IMO ...Miss you :loveyou:

Nore, I am so sorry you have been so sick. I hope you feel better soon. I miss you!

What is scary for me is that JS was a human intelligence collector in the Army and knows all about debriefing and interviewing. The "crazy like a fox" a smart poster used in the previous thread certainly is an apt description. I really hope the jury gets this right. This is a tough one.

 

[Ranchgirl]

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Hi Zuri! I am trying to get caught up on this trial. I was sck and missed so much. I have a hard time figuring how she because so vicious so soon. I know one thing, no one drinks with those meds without a reaction. I dont think she is truly insane but it is brought on by combining those two factors. I would never trus her on the outside again. IMO ...Miss you :loveyou:

JS is no dummy. She knew she should not be drinking along with her meds. As with many of you, I have taken meds for various problems. The Dr. always explains any side effects as well as other complications. Anytime I add a new med, I talk to the pharmacist; google the med and READ THE WARNINGS ON THE BOTTLE! Again, she is blaming everyone else for her problems.
Also, I think she has lost sight of what this trial is all about..not about her, but her dead children! She killed them!


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[TreeClimbingGirl]

Hi all! I have been lurking for the past week, and I'm still catching up on today's thread but wanted to weigh in on Dr. Obregon. It sounds like Julie was being treated at a residents clinic. I have experience with this as I was treated in a residents clinic for about 3 years, for Bipolar and PTSD. The medical students would do a one-year rotation at the clinic, and were overseen by a more established doctor. I would usually meet with both the resident and attending every other session, and as far as I know the attending had to sign off on all of their assessments and prescribed treatments. So any argument that Julie was at a disadvantage because of her doctor's lack of experience falls short, in my opinion-she was not being treated by the third year resident alone.

That said, I'm curious why she chose to be treated in that setting. She presumably had the means to receive top-notch care, if she wanted it. I was not given much choice because I was on Medicaid at the time- and as far as I could tell the majority of patients at that clinic were also on Medicaid and of limited means. I wonder if she was seeking out doctors with less experience who she thought would be easier to manipulate.

OK, back to reading!

 

[Zuri]

USF Psychiatry department were affiliated with Two VA hospitals in the Tampa area. HTH

 

[turaj]

Correct me if wrong: the state rested after only 1.5 days of testimony?

well monday the opening was short so they had a 1/2 day + or-, Tues. full day and they got finished early can't remember exactly so 1/2 day + or - so would say it was more or less 2 days...but I think the strategy is to really get the best in rebuttal...and on cross which they have been doing. the defense witnesses have done little for the def and more for the prosecution.

 

[turaj]

JS is no dummy. She knew she should not be drinking along with her meds. As with many of you, I have taken meds for various problems. The Dr. always explains any side effects as well as other complications. Anytime I add a new med, I talk to the pharmacist; google the med and READ THE WARNINGS ON THE BOTTLE! Again, she is blaming everyone else for her problems.
Also, I think she has lost sight of what this trial is all about..not about her, but her dead children! She killed them!


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I agree it is about the dead children...hope we hear more about them and I would sure have their photo up at closing.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Here is the raw videos of JS buying gun at Lock N Load. Both visits.

http://www.wtsp.com/video/3550822409001/1/Raw-video-Julie-Schenecker-buying-gun


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[YESorNO]

Y or N this is jmo but I think JS didn't want to quit drinking, she liked the euphoria and how it made her feel. I think that is why she wanted the oxy also. I don't think she had any pain meds left though.

If she went to any treatment it meant she would have to give up the things that made her feel better. IDK but maybe this is why she went downhill.

I have never had that problem with alcohol.

BBM Well, if this is correct, and I think it may be, there you go. She is an addict. But... she has other MIs, according to Parker's emails, so maybe not just addictions and depression. We'll see.

Addiction I know about because my brother was/is one- heroin, then pills.
Addiction is a very hard thing to overcome, but.... my brother has not killed anyone. He lost everyone in our family, tho', so he "murdered " his life, IMO, but that is neither-here-nor-there because everyone is different, IMO, and their "illnesses " are different.
We'll see.

 

[bloodmeridian]

Can you imagine the profound effect the murders of the Schenecker children had on Dr. Obregon? From the witnesses we have heard so far, no one saw this coming. This just underscores how deceptive the depth of MI is even to those that work in the field. IMO

I can only imagine? But from his testimony....I would not have gathered this.

I'm aware, as a professional (open to libel), he has to act very 'matter of fact' on the stand.......but IMHO, he could barely remember her!?!?

 

[minor4th]

He gets better after lunch

It's boring and I'm not sure how this helps the defense a whole lot.

 

[turaj]

I can only imagine? But from his testimony....I would not have gathered this.

I'm aware, as a professional (open to libel), he has to act very 'matter of fact' on the stand.......but IMHO, he could barely remember her!?!?

I got that impression too...he also did not seem prepared

 

[Whiteorchids]

Here is the raw videos of JS buying gun at Lock N Load. Both visits.

http://www.wtsp.com/video/3550822409001/1/Raw-video-Julie-Schenecker-buying-gun


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So have any of you viewed these? I don't know what to think she doesn't come across as being insane IMO


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[turaj]

So have any of you viewed these? I don't know what to think she doesn't come across as being insane IMO


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mine was fast forward...maybe that is just what it is? Anyway she looked normal to me

 

[Whiteorchids]

mine was fast forward...maybe that is just what it is? Anyway she looked normal to me

Yes mine too. I guess because it's raw footage.


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[cherishtoo]

It's boring and I'm not sure how this helps the defense a whole lot.

He's not trying to help the defense.

I suppose most people (maybe even, the jury) would find his testimony boring.

Hopefully someone on the jury is as crazy as me.

 

[aliciabal]

Regarding JS and where she received her care, I'm a military spouse and prior service too. Here's how it works: our insurance is called tricare. You can get either prime or standard. Prime is the automatic enrollment and if you want standard, you elect for it. The difference is HMO type coverage or ppo type coverage. Prime is what most of us have and is like an HMO. We must get a referral for specialist care. Tricare tells us what facility/doctor we will be seeing among the network of authorized providers. The key here is that you must have a referral. With standard, you do not need a referral but you must still choose among providers in the network. Also, there are copays and higher costs associated with standard. Being right by mac dill, it is unlikely she choose standard. Most folks choose standard if they are not near a military installation that has a clinic. So, my point is, it's not like she could pick any place she wanted for care. However, tricare works with you to find another provider if you are un satisfied with the one you've been assigned. Its not a perfect system but I've been overall pleased and have a son who sees a specialist. I know what it is to navigate the referral system!