GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #4

[Abigail]

And yet having her hair cut and colored somehow does not go along with staying in bed all day, unable to function. I see mental illness but I also see someone who was still able to function and make plans. jmo

At the time of arrest, JS's hair had roots that indicated she hadn't had her highlights done in a month or more -- or she'd done them at home (very badly). Actually, all she had to do to get her hair cut and highlighted is to make it in the car down to her salon and back. If the autopilot thing that Dr. S mentioned is correct, she'd have been able to do that, and she might have made a special effort to look good for PS if she was afraid of losing him.

Bipolar people have lows where they're in bed (or on the couch) most of the day, and then that cycles with manic periods where they get an amazing amount of stuff done in one day -- like the energizer bunny. Maybe she got her hair done on a manic day.

ETA: just now watching the cleaning lady testimony (missed that on Friday); the cleaning lady said there were some days when she came that JS would be in bed the whole time, and other days that she would be up and running errands. That sounds consistent with bipolar.

 

[Jewels53]

"Think outside the (rational) box", just like a schizoaffective person would.

She believed it was the "right" thing to do. Her justifications are not going to make any sense to a rational, normal person.

All anyone can do is "assume" what did this or that to tip her, or if it was snowballing for years. Even if she takes the stand, she would be "guarded" with her responses simply because her mind is in an irrational place. This "irrational place" is her norm, and she can't fathom why others don't "think" the same way. She has probably made statements and observations from this "place" in the past, and was rebuffed, criticized, had her "sanity" questioned, or put in a hospital. She has more to fear responding from this "place", than "pretending" she is "normal".

She does not have the capacity to get better, she will only degenerate into the abyss which is her "normal reality".

I understand what you are saying, but still struggle with understanding the reality of it. The reason is JS at times acts like she understands and at other times acts like a child. Plus I know someone with bi-polar who doesn't act this way.

I also am not sure the jury will get the insanity part of this trial. The defense has not done a good job of questioning their witnesses.

 

[bloodmeridian]

She's certainly delusional if she believes she going to get the help she wants in prison. I think 'three hots and a cot' will be about all she receives for the rest of her life. That's all society "owes" someone who murders children, imo.

Perhaps a 'society' that offers 11 gun shops, within a 27 mile radius of the criminally insane, should 'owe' to itself something as well? jmo

 

[Abigail]

So she could just turn it on and then off at will? That doesn't seem to match up with spending 7-8 weeks in bed unable to function, but she can just "turn it off" hop in the car to go and buy a gun? I don't buy it.

Bipolar people don't "turn it on and off at will" - they do cycle from low states (being in bed all day) and manic states (super energy). Apparently, Saturday -- the day she bought the gun was a manic day.

 

[zoey]

Bipolar people don't "turn it on and off at will" - they do cycle from low states (being in bed all day) and manic states (super energy). Apparently, Saturday -- the day she bought the gun was a manic day.

What about carpools?

 

[Abigail]

When did JS say she wanted to become impregnated by an ex boyfriend? Was this doing the time that her teenage kids were sassing her and her husband was talking divorce?

No, it was before -- I think back in 2009 -- she was in her upper 40's at the time though, so maybe not psychotic thinking, but certainly not rational.

 

[Bernina]

With all those years of being treated for MI she still chose to drink alcohol, 10+ a day. She knew that was a big NO NO with meds and why but still chose to do so.

If a person drinks alcohol and chooses to drive and kills someone while doing so they are culpable at lease here in Cali.

Even if they are alcoholics they are still culpable.

If She was insane how did she make French chicken? I can't even make French chicken and I'm not insane.

She CHOSE alcohol because the meds didn't help. The lithium dulled her. Very, VERY common. My 2nd husband did and still does that. My current boyfriend did that till he spent a year at Menlo Park for alcohol and pain killer abuse. (He's been sober for over 17 years, heck I don't keep track) Lithium makes him feel slow, stupid, interferes with his ability to walk or maintain his balance, (seriously, he can trip on a grain of sand) his memory, or lack of, is a HUGE impediment. He gained 40 lbs. He sleeps, on AVERAGE 18 hours a day.
*He was a buyer for Hughes Aircraft, spent thousands of hours fine tuning legal contracts, set up a Hughes facility in Spain, he was a pilot, and Military airplane mechanic.*
He has trouble just changing spark plugs or the oil in his vehicle. He will start something and never come back to finish it. He has spent over a year camo painting his Bronco, and it's still just got the hood and one front side fender done. He can't even figure out an electrical schematic when he used to see one once and know it by heart.
It's like living with a 14 year old teenager.
He quit his Lithium for one year during our relationship. It was hell. He finally ended up suicidal and agreed to go to the VA psych ward.
He currently takes 1800 mgs of Lithium a day, 3x 300mgs in the morning and 3x 300mgs at night, plus all the other anxiety, mood stabilizers, and anti-depressants.

But he can cook, incredibly well.........thank God we have an electric stove. But it looks like a tornado hit when he's finished.

 

[bamacurious]

I think her children were the only ones who really knew what Julie Schenecker was truly like...and they were executed by her for it.

She had the trifecta of addictions...gambling, alcohol and drugs. And what group of people are better at lying and getting out of tight, uncomfortable places than addicts?

No matter what she was addicted to, she sacrificed her children. "Sane" mothers don't kill their children...well, if they don't, then we have an epidemic of insane women running around out there everyday. This woman is the garden variety Susan Smith...only difference is that she is smarter than most. She is smart enough to know she does not want to go to jail or prison. To me, it is sad that bi polar disorder was brought into this whole thing...it does a true disservice to people who struggle every day to stay on some equilibrium.

Calyx was right when she called her mother evil. And her mother proved it.

 

[Abigail]

Does she have dentures? I don't think I've ever seen her teeth. She has strange jaw and mouth movements like some do that have dentures.

The odd mouth movements are Tardive Dyskenesia -- involuntary movements that are a side effect of certain anti-psychotic meds -- like Abilify.

 

[Whiteorchids]

She CHOSE alcohol because the meds didn't help. The lithium dulled her. Very, VERY common. My 2nd husband did and still does that. My current boyfriend did that till he spent a year at Menlo Park for alcohol and pain killer abuse. (He's been sober for over 17 years, heck I don't keep track) Lithium makes him feel slow, stupid, interferes with his ability to walk or maintain his balance, (seriously, he can trip on a grain of sand) his memory, or lack of, is a HUGE impediment. He gained 40 lbs. He sleeps, on AVERAGE 18 hours a day.
*He was a buyer for Hughes Aircraft, spent thousands of hours fine tuning legal contracts, set up a Hughes facility in Spain, he was a pilot, and Military airplane mechanic.*
He has trouble just changing spark plugs or the oil in his vehicle. He will start something and never come back to finish it. He has spent over a year camo painting his Bronco, and it's still just got the hood and one front side fender done. He can't even figure out an electrical schematic when he used to see one once and know it by heart.
It's like living with a 14 year old teenager.
He quit his Lithium for one year during our relationship. It was hell. He finally ended up suicidal and agreed to go to the VA psych ward.
He currently takes 1800 mgs of Lithium a day, 3x 300mgs in the morning and 3x 300mgs at night, plus all the other anxiety, mood stabilizers, and anti-depressants.

But he can cook, incredibly well.........thank God we have an electric stove. But it looks like a tornado hit when he's finished.

Prayers for you and your boyfriend. You must really love him to stay in the relationship.

 

[Whiteorchids]

The odd mouth movements are Tardive Dyskenesia -- involuntary movements that are a side effect of certain anti-psychotic meds -- like Abilify.

She may have dentures because of the shrinkage around her mouth, not that it matters. Just an observation. I used to be a Dental Assistant many years ago.

 

[janx]

The odd mouth movements are Tardive Dyskenesia -- involuntary movements that are a side effect of certain anti-psychotic meds -- like Abilify.

The psychiatrist said that it was due to an overabundance of lithium and the trauma that followed what she had done.

??

 

[Bernina]

I understand what you are saying, but still struggle with understanding the reality of it. The reason is JS at times acts like she understands and at other times acts like a child. Plus I know someone with bi-polar who doesn't act this way.

I also am not sure the jury will get the insanity part of this trial. The defense has not done a good job of questioning their witnesses.

A person who has schizoaffective disorder will experience delusions, hallucinations, other symptoms that are characteristic of schizophrenia and significant disturbances in their mood (e.g., affective symptoms). According to the DSM-IV-TR, people who experience more than two weeks of psychotic symptoms in the absence of severe mood disturbances—and then have symptoms of either depression or bipolar disorder—may have schizoaffective disorder. Schizoaffective disorder is thought to be between the bipolar and schizophrenia diagnoses as it has features of both.

http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=By_Illness&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=23043

There are many people with just Bipolar who are highly functional, and no one knows they are bipolar.

 

[Abigail]

Clearly mentally ill, and has been for some time.

Premeditation does not indicate whether or not she was insane. An insane person could plan and carry out a murder. Her alcohol use does not indicate whether or not she was insane (but it may have contributed to it). Whether or not she was "functional" -- able to get out of bed and comb her hair and drive her car -- does not indicate if she was insane.

The jury's duty is to determine whether or not she understood the difference between right and wrong at the time of the murders -- did she understand the wrongfulness of her actions?

I find it a hard call to make. We have the journal entries (and I would love to see copies of those) written in the days prior and day of the murders. We have the post-it notes and the emails. And we have her interrogation on the day after (but she had overdosed and was detoxing at the time).

Would a sane person email the children's grades to her husband just before/after murdering them?

Would a sane person do the family laundry just before/after murdering the kids (there was a basket of clean & folded laundry when police arrived)?

Would a sane person be talking about squeaky chairs when asked if she understood her Miranda rights?

Would a sane person be talking about the kids gurgling and making noises after they were dead?

Would a sane person be unsure if the kids actually were dead?

Would a sane person think she could "buy" her way out of prison after murdering her children?

She was either insane at the time of the murders, or crazy like a fox.

But, I think if she were faking insanity, a woman of her intelligence could do it better. Rather than flimsy excuses like she didn't want them to suffer, or be embarrassed by a Mom who committed suicide, she could have described hearing "voices" telling her to do it, or that she thought that the kids were two-headed monsters or something along those lines.

I wouldn't want to be on the jury. Except for the comfort of knowing that either way it goes, she's unlikely to be on the streets -- at least for a very long time.

Just wondering...since Dr. Solomon thinks sane women don't kill their kids...she must think Casey Anthony is innocent.

 

[Abigail]

The psychiatrist said that it was due to an overabundance of lithium and the trauma that followed what she had done.

??

No, that was referring to the full body shakes she had at the time of her arrest. She had the TD (mouth movements) in the summer of 2010, and went off of Abilify at that time, and by time she was arrested, it couldn't be noted (accdg to Dr. Solomon). After she went to jail, they put her on a new med, and the TD came back, but apparently the jail medical folks have kept her on it because they apparently think the benefits of the med outweigh her having the odd mouth movements.

 

[HauntsForHope]

Psychiatrist Demian Obregon took the stand Friday in the double murder trial of Julie Schenecker.

He read two emails sent to him by Parker Schenecker, Julie's husband, describing her mental state and relationships with her children. They are reproduced here without editing.

http://www.wfla.com/story/25477278/...chenecker-emails-in-wifes-double-murder-trial

 

[azmama]

She may have dentures because of the shrinkage around her mouth, not that it matters. Just an observation. I used to be a Dental Assistant many years ago.

I also noticed that, smokers get that look too, especially if she has lost a lot of weight. I am a dental asst. too :seeya:

I am not familiar with Lithium, so am learning here, but alcohol also drags you down and makes you low. Combine that with pain killers, really low.

I used to take lots of Percocet for back pain- after a while, it made me irritable, really bad, in addition to exhausted. I don't know if this is the norm, but it was not comfortable (the irritability) not even worth the pain relief I gained from it.

 

[Whiteorchids]

She looks so different in this video

http://youtu.be/vKiPqAvGEyI

 

[oceanblueeyes]

At this point in the trial, based on the evidence, do you think JS is Guilty of pre- mediated murder or Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity?

At this point I believe premeditated murder has been proven BARD.

The insanity defense has not been proven.

What has been proven is JS was an alcoholic and drug abuser and lies about it.

IMO

 

[Chelly]

At this point in the trial, based on the evidence, do you think JS is Guilty of pre- mediated murder or Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity?

Leaning towards Not Guilty, Insanity. I know, I know; nobody here agrees and that's OK.