GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #4

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azmama said:
OMG, she looks so different! I saw a couple of other pics after looking at the video you posted. She has aged a great deal since she was arrested, that's incredible.
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I know and it's only been 3 years and 4 months.
 
Chelly said:
Leaning towards Not Guilty, Insanity. I know, I know; nobody here agrees and that's OK.
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Chelly I don't think you are the only one. I am still trying to understand her mental illness. Even though I suffer from depression it is not the same. I am closer to understanding Bi-Polar illness.

So I won't throw anything at you!
 
Abigail said:
Clearly mentally ill, and has been for some time.

Premeditation does not indicate whether or not she was insane. An insane person could plan and carry out a murder. Her alcohol use does not indicate whether or not she was insane (but it may have contributed to it). Whether or not she was "functional" -- able to get out of bed and comb her hair and drive her car -- does not indicate if she was insane.

The jury's duty is to determine whether or not she understood the difference between right and wrong at the time of the murders -- did she understand the wrongfulness of her actions?

I find it a hard call to make. We have the journal entries (and I would love to see copies of those) written in the days prior and day of the murders. We have the post-it notes and the emails. And we have her interrogation on the day after (but she had overdosed and was detoxing at the time).

Would a sane person email the children's grades to her husband just before/after murdering them?

Would a sane person do the family laundry just before/after murdering the kids (there was a basket of clean & folded laundry when police arrived)?

Would a sane person be talking about squeaky chairs when asked if she understood her Miranda rights?

Would a sane person be talking about the kids gurgling and making noises after they were dead?

Would a sane person be unsure if the kids actually were dead?

Would a sane person think she could "buy" her way out of prison after murdering her children?

She was either insane at the time of the murders, or crazy like a fox.

But, I think if she were faking insanity, a woman of her intelligence could do it better. Rather than flimsy excuses like she didn't want them to suffer, or be embarrassed by a Mom who committed suicide, she could have described hearing "voices" telling her to do it, or that she thought that the kids were two-headed monsters or something along those lines.

I wouldn't want to be on the jury. Except for the comfort of knowing that either way it goes, she's unlikely to be on the streets -- at least for a very long time.

Just wondering...since Dr. Solomon thinks sane women don't kill their kids...she must think Casey Anthony is innocent.
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Great post! Thank you. I really love the minds of all you guys here on WS!

I agree with your comments about the flimsy excuses for faking MI. I hadn't thought about that....other than my observation that (unlike Casey Anthony), she didn't see any necessity to lie about....anything!

I again, and equally echo, your comment about being on this jury. It's a gross tragedy, of massive proportions, and my emotions (if on the jury) would be all over the place.
 
Jewels53 said:
Chelly I don't think you are the only one. I am still trying to understand her mental illness. Even though I suffer from depression it is not the same. I am closer to understanding Bi-Polar illness.

So I won't throw anything at you!
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Whew! Thanks my kindred-spirit-friend. I probably won't have to start ducking till tomorrow.

The jury has its work cut out for them. I think the deliberations will take several days.
 
Chelly said:
Leaning towards Not Guilty, Insanity. I know, I know; nobody here agrees and that's OK.
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Nothing wrong with that at all. That's the beauty of this site and why I was drawn to it all those years ago.
We can learn a lot from each other's opinions.
Just because I have decided guilty of M1 today doesn't mean that I'll feel the same next week.
I personally base my opinions on the facts as much as I possibly can, but am not so firmly planted in my opinions that I discard the possibility that I may be wrong.
 
Whiteorchids said:
She looks so different in this video

http://youtu.be/vKiPqAvGEyI
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Thank you for sharing that. I notice she doesn't have the TD (mouth movements) there -- that would be consistent with Dr. Solomon's testimony that the TD went away after she weaned off of Abilify, and then came back after the jail doc put her on a new med. She seems really out of it in this video -- almost like she falls asleep -- they must have had her pretty sedated -- or maybe she's in a deep depressed state -- also 3 guards -- interesting. I think they must have gotten her better stabilized while in jail these past 2 years, in spite of the TD, she's definitely alert now in trial, able to pay attention to everything going on. Of course, not being on alcohol helps.
 
Whiteorchids said:
She looks so different in this video

http://youtu.be/vKiPqAvGEyI
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I've never highlighted my hair, so only have the visual of watching my mom do her's, but that looks pretty bad, JMO, what do I know, BAD.
I'm assuming that video had to be very soon after her arrest because she still has a lot of color to her skin.
Thought her hair was pretty ratty in the gun store video too. I wonder if she cut it herself?
The whole idea is putting a plastic cap on with dots all over it, taking something like a crochet hook and pulling pieces of hair through the dots in the cap? Then putting some type of bleaching agent on the strands as close to the scalp as possible?

If she did it herself......... pretty sketchy. Way too much "blonde" anyway you slice it.
If she went to a salon, she should have asked for her money back.

Just my own inexperienced opinion.
 
zoey said:
What about carpools?
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She didn't always achieve this. Testified to by two different witnesses....one of them confirming that she often wore pyjamas and a robe in the car.

Whiteorchids said:
With all those years of being treated for MI she still chose to drink alcohol, 10+ a day. She knew that was a big NO NO with meds and why but still chose to do so.

If a person drinks alcohol and chooses to drive and kills someone while doing so they are culpable at least here in Cali.

Even if they are alcoholics they are still culpable.

If She was insane how did she make French chicken? I can't even make French chicken and I'm not insane.
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An alcoholic doesn't have a CHOICE over drinking alcohol. That's the definition of the addiction. Unless the person has the ability to SURRENDER to their powerlessness over what they are addicted to......there is NO CHOICE! Plus they are often, highly functional human beings.......even making 'French Chicken'....and speaking fluent Russian!

I know this is a difficult (maybe impossible) concept for someone who is not an alcoholic to understand, but if you are an alcoholic, or have known the behavior of an alcoholic, intimately.....then you will know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Don't get me wrong....mentally ill people DO recover, I've seen it happen.....but the chances of recovery for those who have severe Mental Illness, as well as addiction, are very, very, slim.

They don't all kill their children (of course)....but most will end up in Prisons, Sanatoriums or Dead. It's the way it is. Unless alcoholics have what's called a 'moment of clarity', where they CAN make a choice to surrender to their powerlessness over alcohol.......then this is the ONLY outcome.

How likely do you think it was....that JS was heading towards a 'moment of clarity'? I'm thinking zero! jmo
 
Just for the heck of it:
http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=About_Medications&Template=/TaggedPage/TaggedPageDisplay.cfm&TPLID=51&ContentID=20820

Overdosing with lithium may lead to: confusion, difficulty concentrating, sluggishness, vomiting, diarrhea, poor coordination, tremor and muscle weakness or twitching. In severe cases, people can develop abnormal heart rhythm, seizures. Coma and death are possible.

A specific antidote for lithium does not exist.
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What should I avoid while taking lithium?

Avoid drinking alcohol or using illegal drugs while you are taking lithium. They may decrease the benefits (e.g., worsen your symptoms) and increase adverse effects (e.g., sedation, dizziness).

Avoid excessive intake of caffeinated beverages, such as coffee, tea, cola or energy drinks, since these may decrease levels of lithium and decrease effectiveness of the medication
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I had no idea caffeine wasn't good, but the sleepiness explains why so many on Lithium drink it. The BF just learned something too. He goes through a pot of coffee a day.:facepalm:
 
Just my observations from Day 2 of the defense:

JS seems more engaged today. Scowling less. I am on the fence about why that is. Is she more interested because the therapist is testifying and it's all about her? Is it because the therapist is doing something that JS wants? Is it because her DT read websleuths and all the other blogs and told her to try not to frown?

She stands up straighter today. Today when the jury took a 15 min break so the Psychologist could find one of the records, she stood up straight and put her hands behind her back (military: at ease).

I FINALLY figured out what JS is listening to when she puts on headphones. It's the sidebar discussions between the DT, prosecutor, and the judge. I feel kind of silly for not figuring it out before.

I might have missed it, but I did not see any instances of the DT interacting with JS. I've watched a lot of trials and the DT usually whispers to the defendant from time to time or vice versa. They're all scribbling on their pads (JS included) but not interacting.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
At this point I believe premeditated murder has been proven BARD.

The insanity defense has not been proven.

What has been proven is JS was an alcoholic and drug abuser and lies about it.

IMO
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I vote for crazy like a fox (CLAF) not a legal term of course-- not insane at all

JMO only.... as am not an expert on anything! I don't think we can ''tease out'' the knots in ball of yarn on this one to determine ''root cause'' of her motivation to kill.

It appears to me that JS has no allies and SMI could be the reason she doesn't have strong relationships or just her social situation (moving a lot etc).

Even if her personal life was ''imploding'' (pending divorce, challenges with children) it's a stretch to prove insanity.....JMO...from the evidence presented. Even if she was still dealing with her own childhood issues, she had a therapist for that. Many people have survived horrific abuse and gone on to lead ''non violent'' lives -

Know two people with BP and both were medical professionals ... diagnosed in their late 30's both married w/kids. One marriage survived other one didn't...but no child was harmed.
 
Just now watching the cleaning lady's testimony, which I missed on Friday (and what nice job she did in factually and succinctly giving testimony).

She mentioned on the last day she was there (day before the murders), JS had gone to her room to get a shower, and when the cleaning lady came into the master bedroom later, JS was sitting on her bed in an upright condition, fully dressed, as if to go somewhere, and seemed t0 be asleep or in some sort of stupor. She remained in this potion for the time it took to clean the room (dusting and vacuuming) -- maybe around 20 min.
 
I am confused about the divorce thing. It was her perception PS was going to divorce her, not actual fact. I think PS was doing what he could to keep his family intact. IMO
 
Another thing struck me. Her admission to drinking 10 drinks a day IMO is minimized. Rule of thumb in the ER was to double the amount patients admitted to. So under that premise she was drinking 20 drinks per day. It seems as though she hid a lot of the ETOH evidence when PS was around. IMO
 
Chelly said:
Whew! Thanks my kindred-spirit-friend. I probably won't have to start ducking till tomorrow.

The jury has its work cut out for them. I think the deliberations will take several days.
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sister Chelly, I am right now in complete agreement. I am leaning towards not guilty by reason of insanity. The alcohol part I don't need to tell you how it works eh? Doctors would suggest I should not drink bla bla bla---it was killing me, and yet I didn't stop.
 
My heart goes out to this jury as they have to attempt to fathom the unfathomable. If we go by the first two defense experts, she was insane. Dr. Solomon gave too shaky a defense of insanity by saying any parent who kills their child must be insane. We all know here that the reasons are much more varied.

The second doctor did a better job of explaining the defense case and has seemed to have brought out quite a healthy discussion here.

At the moment, I'm still wavering towards her not being insane, although very mentally ill.

I need to hear from PS as well as any other defense witnesses.

Then, I need to hear the prosecution's rebuttal case where, for the first time, we will hear from experts who are of the opinion that she wasn't insane.

Then, I'll rethink the whole situation from zero.
 
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