Trial Discussion Thread #39 - 14.05.14 Day 32

[MeeBee]

I'm beginning to think they called this the trial of the century because it's going to take a 100 year's to conclude.

This isn't even close to the longest trial I've followed, even with the eval.

 

[Gryffindor]

Interested Bystander, today's brief granting of the order court session is on YouTube. Search OSCAR TRIAL 14 MAY. It's the first result

 

[DebinGA]

I don't want to blow the margins, but YouTube has the Sept. 2, 2012 Paralympic 200m race where OP, the overwhelming favorite, lost the first professional race of his life to a 20 yo Brazilian. Instantly, he was no longer "the fastest man on no legs". Given the widening use of Cheetah blades and the rising number of much younger opponents, that race loss may have been a PTSD precipitating experience, especially after his bad loser claim the winner used illegally long blades. Between Sept. and Feb. 2013 there were a series of publicized, image-damaging episodes featuring OP, probably leading to serious loss of sponsors and "the hurdle" meeting regarding same on Feb. 13. I think OP may have killed Reeva in self-defense mode, believing she would tell arriving police/sympathetic friends/family about something he'd done that evening that would kill his reputation and ruin his future.

 

[Viper]

I must have misunderstood, i thought she said he should not be punished twice.

Salsta, a few here enjoy playing word and head games.

From the link:
"The aim, the judge said, was not to punish him twice, but to ensure that justice was done."

http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-pistorius-mental-health-evaluation-20140514-story.html

 

[Gryffindor]

Interested Bystander. Hope this works ;-)

http://youtu.be/WBnX2YDYRL4

 

[Salsta]

Salsta, a few here enjoy playing word and head games.

From the link:
"The aim, the judge said, was not to punish him twice, but to ensure that justice was done."

http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-pistorius-mental-health-evaluation-20140514-story.html

Thank you Viper, i am not going to get into arguments with certain posters when it is clear to hear what the Judge said. Thank you again for your support! :cheers:

 

[Boudicea]

Then why did he?

Clearly Oscar didn't want this evaluation. It is certainly quite undesirable to spent so much time in a South African state owed mental facility.

Of course the evaluation could still actually help Roux's case. But Nel had his own advisor's who has been evaluating Oscar throughout the trail. They might have been confident enough to advice Nel, to take the step and forward the motion for this 30 day evaluation. If nothing serious are found, or no further mental illness diagnoses are deemed to be applicable in this case, then the defence will not be able to rely on psychological testimony as much as before. Of course it always a gamble at the same time.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Then why did he?

IMO, Nel had no choice to file the application because of Vorster's testimony. Nel wanted to make sure that whatever sentence is handed down by M'lady sticks and it is not reversed on appeal due to mental illness. He is basically in cya mode. I honestly don't think that Nel believes OP has any kind of disorder. Hence the evaluation, so Nel can confirm those beliefs to himself and to the court. I also think Nel was calling BS on OP's 3rd defense. All is jmo, btw.

 

[lithgow1]

My one shamelessly off topic post of the day...if you'll indulge me.


My husband stopped following trials with me after a few surprising outcomes - the Anthony acquittal being the last. He thinks he's bad luck for cases I follow, knows we both blame him for outcomes I don't foresee, and actually wishes to see old age. :biggrin:

If trial watching becomes a full time hobby for you (lots of new posters leave us posttrial ), you'll find attorneys both sides of every conceivable personality and aptitude. It really can prove fascinating.

I've literally been lulled to sleep by a prosecutor with the personality of a wall while another I still reference as 'one of the best' even though she's long since retired from practice. I admire Martinez, Ashton, Distaso and many others but Nel is my first crush ever - at least on a prosecutor.

This trial, in particular, has gifted us who have been here awhile with some amazing new posters (like yourself) sharing their insights - I for one really hope all of you stay on once this trial's concluded. I tend to get a bit nostalgic towards the end of a trial too - fair warning this is likely not to be the last post encouraging you to stay. It's always a bit sad when a trial ends and everybody goes different directions after posting together, daily, for months on end.

Fortunately, I get an unexpected grace period.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Well since you say nice things about me I'll certainly not find fault with any self-indulgence! I have found this trial more interesting than Arias' and certainly can see myself following others, depending on the case. Plus none of my friends are into it so a forum such as this is great for discussing it with other sadsacks .

I like reading the comments on digital spy but it is much less moderated so they get very heated and I know I'd end up in rows with people there so this one is better in that respect. It makes me think a bit more before saying something. I'll also be honest that what I like here is that the focus is generally more on the trial than the personalities. As much as I felt Travis Alexander didn't deserve to die like that I just couldn't get into the whole 'let's have a candle-lighting day for Travis' stuff on Huff Post. My take was he was just another human with good points and flaws like all of us and that was as far as I could go. Same here really - Reeva Steenkamp does sound like a lovely person and she died an early and horrible death and I'd like to see justice on her behalf but that's as far as I can go as I never knew her. Hope you get what I mean as it can be a fine line between watching an interesting process and getting a bit too involved in it all.

I know that OP gets regularly criticised here but to me that's fine - he's the accused and if he did what most of us think he did then it's justified. And when it all boils down to it what we say here about him is never going to reach his ears and he wouldn't give a toss if it did. I have always enjoyed reading true crime books and in a way this is just a logical extension of that in this digital age. The downside is that I'm terribly behind on work because of Oscar Pistorius - just like him I can shift blame too!

 

[Carmelita]

Snipped for focus:

Quick question for you and your attorney friend.

If Roux wanted a state assessment, thought it would help Oscar's defense, why didn't he simply ask the judge for one right out of the gate?

Well I'm not going to call or text my friend but my best guess would be because Oscar's mental health having anything to do with the events of the morning that Reeva was killed would have been scoffed at by the state. Roux has effectively through Nel made Oscars mental health that morning a far bigger focal point in the trial than it would have been if both the state and defense simply put psychiatrists in the box who had interviewed Oscar.

 

[Magdalyn]

I was completely off my Birthday noodle when I typed the above, albeit, it was fairly good what I posted. Don't deny me.

I have since recovered from recent events...Me, alcohol, Birthday Dinner ,Sing song, Birthday cake, family and my god forsaken friends.

One last moment before I sign off till Tuesday...

Thank you to every single one of you on Web Sleuths for even saying Hi to me.

You, yes you.....! Behind your screens, as am I, are actually quite a nice bunch...who don't fire without establishment or qualification, when we hear a noise.

And in all truth I don't even know what I just said ....I don't even own a gun.
I'm pickled......
What a day....
Night all.

Lolz! I want some of what you're having, Budgie! :toast: artyguy2:

 

[Viper]

At 4:50 in the video the psychologist talks about the 30 day observation and why it is inpatient, not outpatient:

http://youtu.be/yNvODipYQ6w

OP not staying the nights is very unusual, she has never heard of it happening.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I must have misunderstood, i thought she said he should not be punished twice.

She did say that. Here is a quote for you to read.

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-05-14-pistorius-trial-week-8-day-3/#.U3OmZfmSySp

“The aim of referral is not to punish the accused twice,” Masipa said – prompting inevitable speculation about whether she definitely intended to punish him once. “So if there is a possibility of the accused being an out-patient, that would be preferable.”

 

[atthelake]

Watching the Julie Sheneker trial in Florida, and a forensic psych is on the stand. They get to look at ALL evidence to date to base opinion vs. what the defense psych has seen with Oscar which was limited.

 

[jay-jay]

Yes, you are right. This latest event has quite thrown me to the point of wondering if OP has a chance of getting away with murder. I keep telling myself Nel knows what he is doing and then I wonder, as has been suggested, was Roux clever enough to bring this on. He seemed quite emotional when Nel threw this into the arena - was it a big act? Uncle Pistorius seems quite cool about the whole issue. I couldn't watch this morning's court proceedings as I had an appointment to keep. I need to search out a video to watch what happened.

I haven't been able to listen to radio either. What did WhoopWhoop have to say? Anything interesting?

I'm exactly the same, IB!

 

[lithgow1]

Kelly Phelps is putting her usual spin on things. Fair enough that she says there are three possible outcomes and two out of three are good for the defence but what she fails to add is that maybe these experts will find he has a condition more damning than GAD in terms of his defence. She also fails to mention that this whole thing is only an issue if the court buys OP's story. Through it all Robyn Curnow nods vigorously and smiles broadly.

 

[Hope4More]

Lith....I hear ya. Just finished book about a murder and trial in UK in the 1860's. Detectives were a new concept. The victim's family had to pay for the cost of prosecuting the accused. It was a different world except for one thing.

The public was mesmerized by the case from the first day the murder was made known. Investigators were flooded by letters from all over the UK...and the world...sent by "arm chair" detectives who were sure they had figured things out, or who were concerned that vital clues were being overlooked. Edgar Allan Poe even sent a thorough evaluation of the case as he saw it.

The near unanimous consensus was that the person initially being accused couldn't possibly be guilty. 5 years later this person confessed of her own volition. The public refused to believe her, so certain were they of their own opinion. Truly an interesting story.

PS. Back then this new phenomenon of following a case was called " detective fever.".

 

[Giles]

At 4:50 in the video the psychologist talks about the 30 day observation and why it is inpatient, not outpatient:

http://youtu.be/yNvODipYQ6w

OP not staying the nights is very unusual, she has never heard of it happening.

Yes, it's only happened once before, in the case the judge cited. And, in that case it was a voluntary decision. With OP it is involuntary. The law suggests he HAS to be taken into custody on Tuesday until a bed becomes available.

 

[BritsKate]

IMO, the hypervigilence, need for guns, security, people around him all the time, insecurity, anxiety and other known and unknown traits, could be indicative of PTSD. I truly hope he gets the help he desperately needs. JMV

I see this quite differently but chose your post since we've so often agreed in the past. I've really missed your input.

I think Oscar likes power and control. I believe he enjoys others being fearful of him. I find him to be egocentric, narcissistic, selfish, with a sense of entitlement, manipulative and callous. I think he's reckless, impulsive, and aggressive.

To me hypervigilance is disproven by the following:

- leaving his firearm unattended and out of sight.
- not fixing the broken window in his home.
- not closing the balcony doors.
- not fixing the lock on his bedroom door.
- not knowing if his alarm sensors were functioning properly.
- not having a prolific history of other incidents involving contacting security or police to express concerns over security issues.
- not securing ladders on his property.
- leaving his vehicle in the driveway overnight.

As to vulnerability, insecurity, and anxiety...I really struggle to reconcile that with careless disregard for others and how much he was able to accomplish. In fact, I just can't reconcile it. Believe me, I've tried. Further, the only evidence to support such comes directly from the accused and I don't believe his account any more than I believed Jodi Arias experienced intimate partner violence.

JMO

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[lithgow1]

Lith....I hear ya. Just finished book about a murder and trial in UK in the 1860's. Detectives were a new concept. The victim's family had to pay for the cost of prosecuting the accused. It was a different world except for one thing.

The public was mesmerized by the case from the first day the murder was made known. Investigators were flooded by letters from all over the UK...and the world...sent by "arm chair" detectives who were sure they had figured things out, or who were concerned that vital clues were being overlooked. Edgar Allan Poe even sent a thorough evaluation of the case as he saw it.

The near unanimous consensus was that the person initially being accused couldn't possibly be guilty. 5 years later this person confessed of her own volition. The public refused to believe her, so certain were they of their own opinion. Truly an interesting story.

PS. Back then this new phenomenon of following a case was called " detective fever.".

Which trial was it H4M? It sounds like an interesting book. Have you ever read George Orwell's Decline of the English Murder essay? That's a good short read and he paints an evocative picture of an Englishman, full of roast beef and contentment after Sunday lunch, relaxing by the fire with a cup of tea and opening the newspaper to read about the latest sensational murder.

PS Not much has changed really has it. Remember when it turned out Mr Dixon was more media savvy than he said and people were worried about does Nel know this, someone should email him etc.