Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #3 ***ARREST***

[reedus23]

Well where are these so called witnesses and why aren't they being charged?

Why would they charge witnesses who they want to testify for the prosecution?

 

[reedus23]

I agree with this. I don't know if ZA acted alone, but it's rare that the accused are SOOOOO adamant about not being involved like Aurty is. Sure....the convicted say.."I didn't do it"...but the force of somebody's denial says alot in my opinion. either Autry feels LE has very little REAL evidence, or he's not involved.

I would suggest just the opposite. I'm betting prisons are filled with people who are adamant that they are innocent. And OR Autry is trying to control and manipulate. Who knows which. Time will tell.

 

[reedus23]

If LE is relying heavely on hearsay....this is a joke. They could have relied on hearsay on day one and brought in all the same guys. Not three years later. I hope they have physical evidence in thier possesion.

I would bet they do. They didn't just up and decide one day to make arrests. That would be incompetence and cut against the way they operate. They get one chance at this and they're not going to charge people just because someone on Topix says so and so did it.

 

[reedus23]

He said/she said from meth addicts in prison. God help the Bobos.

Relax. That's how a vast majority of cases are. Nothing new to prosecutors or to juries for that matter.

 

[reedus23]

Misprision of a felony is a federal crime of failing to report a felony to the authorities. Used recently in East Tennessee to convict Eric Boyd in the Christain-Newsome matter and former Judge Richard Baumgartner who presided over the Christian-Newsome trials while high on painkillers.

That is still on the books but stems from the old laws of England and even England has done away with it. Most states have abolished any such concept and I believe even under the federal statute it requires active concealment as opposed to simple failure to report. Just wanted to clarify that I don't think it's as simple as failing to report a felony and the elements are probably actually closer to proving one is an accessory after the fact, which is what it appears from the snippet below that Eric Boyd was convicted of.

 

[SteveS]

I don't think I misconstrued the meaning. We can disagree on the interpretation of the charges.

Well no, we really can't. You can't interpret that "white" means the color of leaves in summer, and then just say we "disagree" when I point out that leaves are green. Words - and legal charges - have objective meaning.

The meaning in the wording of the murder charge, as it related to the kidnapping charge, is specific.

Legally, and under the specific terminology selected by the DA, the murder was within the "perpetration of the kidnapping" in that she was taken, and then at some point thereafter, without ever having been released, she was murdered. It is a legal distinction, relevant to the way ZA was charged, and one the DA was careful to make.

But it explicitly does NOT connote that she had to have been killed in the act of being taken, or even shortly thereafter. As for how long she was held and alive, no one knows. We have no theory from the DA, no confession from the perp, and nothing in the reading of the charges to indicate a time interval of any length between when she was taken and when she died, whether hours, days, or even many months. So far, we have no way to know.

That is fact, not opinion.

 

[reedus23]

is this your first Rodeo? in most cases I have ever seen, LE is quick to act confident or say they have certain things if they do to get public opinion on thier side. if they had a body, they would say they have a body. Anything less than a body in this case will be argued and not a slam dunk. Are you saying LE never mis-file charges? lol

If you think I am way off base in thinking they might not have much, I say you are just as far off base saying they have anything. just saying...

Respectfully disagree. LE and DA's typically play it close to the vest. Why would they want to give the defense attorney any more information than they have to any sooner than they have to? Only time will tell exactly what they have.

 

[reedus23]

I understand your point. However....what LE has now, they could have had the first week. These were the rumored guys, these were the guys in and out of jail, the community knew they were bad seeds. It took three years to get here? theycould have searched the adams house during one of his jail stints based on rumors he was involved in the Bobo case way back. They did it anyway...three years later, right?

You don't know what they have so you can't know if they could have had it in the first week.

 

[reedus23]

Are the 360,000 pages on ZA alone or do they include Autry? IIRC, it was announced at one of ZA's hearings.

I'm gonna bet that is all inclusive.

 

[SteveS]

That is still on the books but stems from the old laws of England and even England has done away with it. Most states have abolished any such concept and I believe even under the federal statute it requires active concealment as opposed to simple failure to report. Just wanted to clarify that I don't think it's as simple as failing to report a felony and the elements are probably actually closer to proving one is an accessory after the fact, which is what it appears from the snippet below that Eric Boyd was convicted of.

Exactly. In reading the case and court ruling, I came to the very same conclusion. It was not really the failure to report, but rather the active involvement after the fact, that was the basis for his charges and conviction.

 

[~n/t~]

Why would they charge witnesses who they want to testify for the prosecution?

Because they witnessed a missing/kidnapped woman being held when the entire county was searching for her.

For discussion purposes, what if Holly was a child. A 6 year old little girl and some saw her alive and did nothing

 

[reedus23]

I don't think I misconstrued the meaning. We can disagree on the interpretation of the charges. Yes she was kidnapped. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest she was kept alive for days, weeks or months. At the time, IIRC an amber alert was issued. These alleged witnesses knew she was missing/kidnapped. They're in the same county for Pete's sake and did nothing.

So ya, I think they should face charges if they knew

You are aboslutely entitled to think or feel whatever you like. They won't get charged because as far as I know so far they didn't do anything to conceal the crime and failing to report it simply isn't enough. Second, the prosecution wants them to talk, not clam up because they caught some charges. That would be pretty counter-productive in the bigger picture.

 

[~n/t~]

Well no, we really can't. You can't interpret that "white" means the color of leaves in summer, and then just say we "disagree" when I point out that leaves are green. Words - and legal charges - have objective meaning.

The meaning in the wording of the murder charge, as it related to the kidnapping charge, is specific.

Legally, and under the specific terminology selected by the DA, the murder was within the "perpetration of the kidnapping" in that she was taken, and then at some point thereafter, without ever having been released, she was murdered. It is a legal distinction, relevant to the way ZA was charged, and one the DA was careful to make.

But it explicitly does NOT connote that she had to have been killed in the act of being taken, or even shortly thereafter. As for how long she was held and alive, no one knows. We have no theory from the DA, no confession from the perp, and nothing in the reading of the charges to indicate a time interval of any length between when she was taken and when she died, whether hours, days, or even many months. So far, we have no way to know.

That is fact, not opinion.

Ummm isn't that what I posted. You snipped my post so the relevancy is lost in your comments. We were discussing witnesses.

 

[Suthrnqt]

I would suggest just the opposite. I'm betting prisons are filled with people who are adamant that they are innocent. And OR Autry is trying to control and manipulate. Who knows which. Time will tell.

BBM

As a retired prison health services employee (20+yrs), I can confirm that your statement is correct. IMO

 

[reedus23]

Because they witnessed a missing/kidnapped woman being held when the entire county was searching for her.

For discussion purposes, what if Holly was a child. A 6 year old little girl and some saw her alive and did nothing

I would say they are scum and cowards but simply failing to report it is not a crime. If asked by LE if they saw the child and they deny it, now there is a crime. If they see the 6 year old being held captive, fail to report it and then put up blinds because they thought LE might see the same thing...now you may have a crime.

 

[Hatfield]

Actually, no they couldn't have. Rumors are not probable cause and will not get you a warrant.

It's been said repeatedly that people didn't start talking until ZA was locked up and that didn't happen until a few months ago. So, no, I don't think LE could have had 3 years ago what they have today. Because, three years ago, no one was talking.

LE may not have been able to get a warrant that first couple days/weeks but they surely could have went and knocked on each of their doors and there is no telling whether or not they could have saved Holly if they had done that. Maybe they did do this even.

IMO, it seems they had a real opportunity to possibly save her. When LE knocks on someone's door, the people inside could have reacted with fear and maybe even Holly would have screamed for help just at the right time. Then no warrant is needed if LE hears someone needing help inside. Or the people inside may have panicked after LE left and maybe even let her go.

We dont know much of what LE did or didnt do in those early days but from what little we know so far it sure seems like more could have been done. I truly hope we will find out they did everything right and knocked on all the right doors and just didnt find any reason to suspect them further.

It is just very troubling right now to find out that they had Sketches of the perp, a witness at the coon hunt who went to LE with their concerns, and that LE would have had to know who that sketch looked like. Huge concerns about what may have not been done but should have been.

 

[~n/t~]

LE may not have been able to get a warrant that first couple days/weeks but they surely could have went and knocked on each of their doors and there is no telling whether or not they could have saved Holly if they had done that.

IMO, it seems they had a real opportunity to possibly save her. When LE knocks on someone's door, the people inside could have reacted with fear and maybe even Holly would have screamed for help just at the right time. Then no warrant is needed if LE hears someone needing help inside. Or the people inside may have panicked after LE left and maybe even let her go.

We dont know much of what LE did or didnt do in those early days but from what little we know so far it sure seems like more could have been done. I truly hope we will find out they did everything right and knocked on all the right doors and just didnt find any reason to suspect them further.

It is just very troubling right now to find out that they had Sketches of the perp, a witness at the coon hunt who went to LE with their concerns, and that LE would have had to know who that sketch looked like. Huge concerns about what may have not been done but should have been.

And the relentless efforts from the Bobos to get answers to no avail.

 

[~n/t~]

I would say they are scum and cowards but simply failing to report it is not a crime. If asked by LE if they saw the child and they deny it, now there is a crime. If they see the 6 year old being held captive, fail to report it and then put up blinds because they thought LE might see the same thing...now you may have a crime.

Gotcha

 

[maskedwoman]

Why do you think they picked him 2 years ago?

They probably talked to, or tried to interview, others as well. It's just that he was incarcerated so they could at least force him to show up and say "I don't want to talk to you".

 

[maskedwoman]

LE may not have been able to get a warrant that first couple days/weeks but they surely could have went and knocked on each of their doors and there is no telling whether or not they could have saved Holly if they had done that. Maybe they did do this even.

IMO, it seems they had a real opportunity to possibly save her. When LE knocks on someone's door, the people inside could have reacted with fear and maybe even Holly would have screamed for help just at the right time. Then no warrant is needed if LE hears someone needing help inside. Or the people inside may have panicked after LE left and maybe even let her go.

We dont know much of what LE did or didnt do in those early days but from what little we know so far it sure seems like more could have been done. I truly hope we will find out they did everything right and knocked on all the right doors and just didnt find any reason to suspect them further.

It is just very troubling right now to find out that they had Sketches of the perp, a witness at the coon hunt who went to LE with their concerns, and that LE would have had to know who that sketch looked like. Huge concerns about what may have not been done but should have been.

I just think we don't know enough to know whether more could have been done or not. I would be truly heartsick if it turned out LE dropped the ball at a point she could have been saved. I certainly don't want to believe that.

But what you suggested isn't what Steve was referring to. He specifically said the rumors should have prompted a search of their homes.

I don't think we know if LE knocked on their doors or not. If they did, I suspect Holly might not have been in any state to know it or able to cry out for help.

We know she was there and was seen, but I doubt she was sitting on the couch watching television.