IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33

[AbbeyR]

Speculation: what if she left JR's as described, walked to the corner, realized she was missing her key (or phone etc.), then went back to MB's and CR's and knocked on the door....Might explain why CR claims no recollection of events and why the stories originating from MB are inconsistent.

CR's car was searched. Did MB have a car and was it searched?

That's a good point, and I've considered that MB's stories are referring to different points in the night (i.e., she left when he was putting corey to bed, then came back, was in bad shape and then he brought her over to JR's).

Only, the quote from the neighbor who heard this story said that MB said Lauren left while he was upstairs putting Corey to bed, and that was the last time they saw her:

Beth’s attorney, Ron Chapman (who also represents Rohn), tells IM that Beth, an IU student, stayed in all night to work on papers due that day. Chapman also confirms that Rossman was with Spierer when she came to the apartment, and that Beth helped Rossman into bed. Valerie Sokolova, a neighbor, tells IM that Beth has said he went upstairs and, when he returned, Spierer was gone. “That was the last time Mike and Corey saw her,” says Sokolova.

(bbm) http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/story.aspx?ID=1712477

And then there's the stories where he 'watched her walk out the door', which came from both his lawyer and the witness at CVS, which doesn't fit with either of the other accounts.

 

[Vidocq]

Why did even Rohn need to lawyer up? All that he [officially] did, as I understand it, was walk Lauren to the pre-game party at JR's; and shortly thereafter he supposedly returned to Smallwood and stayed there for the rest of the night. The fact that someone in the group with as little apparent culpability as Rohn would lawyer up, along with the fact no one has cracked and come forward after three years, along with the fact that a body must of somehow gotten hidden really well: this all leads me to suspect, as EAO has hinted at, that this group might have all been running some sort of, um, business together. Just speculating. It casts a different light on ZO punching CR. I mean, couldn't four guys have put Lauren to bed, and thrown CR out of the building? Maybe the punch wasn't about Lauren at all. Maybe it was a disagreement about, you know, business. Again, just speculating.

 

[Ixchel13]

Why did even Rohn need to lawyer up? All that he [officially] did, as I understand it, was walk Lauren to the pre-game party at JR's; and shortly thereafter he supposedly returned to Smallwood and stayed there for the rest of the night. The fact that someone in the group with as little apparent culpability as Rohn would lawyer up, along with the fact no one has cracked and come forward after three years, along with the fact that a body must of somehow gotten hidden really well: this all leads me to suspect, as EAO has hinted at, that this group might have all been running some sort of, um, business together. Just speculating. It casts a different light on ZO punching CR. I mean, couldn't four guys have put Lauren to bed, and thrown CR out of the building? Maybe the punch wasn't about Lauren at all. Maybe it was a disagreement about, you know, business. Again, just speculating.

well, IMO they all cooperated to some extent, at the beginning, then immediately lawyered up, if not even before cooperating, I'm sure. Then, they can say something like, "Our client has cooperated as far as they're willing to unless there is a formal charge, etc, etc." And each time they are called in for questioning, they can say the same thing.

about the changing number of POIs, again, LE doublespeak. They can add to the number, subtract from the number, change who is a POI and then
add and subtract from that number. They haven't even vaguely given a
nod about anybody off the hook., like saying, "the number of POIs has gone down considerably, slightly, or not at all."

 

[Donamena]

Why did even Rohn need to lawyer up? All that he [officially] did, as I understand it, was walk Lauren to the pre-game party at JR's; and shortly thereafter he supposedly returned to Smallwood and stayed there for the rest of the night. The fact that someone in the group with as little apparent culpability as Rohn would lawyer up, along with the fact no one has cracked and come forward after three years, along with the fact that a body must of somehow gotten hidden really well: this all leads me to suspect, as EAO has hinted at, that this group might have all been running some sort of, um, business together. Just speculating. It casts a different light on ZO punching CR. I mean, couldn't four guys have put Lauren to bed, and thrown CR out of the building? Maybe the punch wasn't about Lauren at all. Maybe it was a disagreement about, you know, business. Again, just speculating.

Are you from THE Vidoq??

 

[AbbeyR]

Why did even Rohn need to lawyer up? All that he [officially] did, as I understand it, was walk Lauren to the pre-game party at JR's; and shortly thereafter he supposedly returned to Smallwood and stayed there for the rest of the night.

<snipped>

Well, he was also one of the two people JR called just after 4 am, and JR has claimed that DR and LS did drugs together that night. (link)

However, unlike JR, CR, MB and JW, Rohn took an FBI-administered polygraph test that showed "no deception"

 

[Vidocq]

Are you from THE Vidoq??

At your service: the original detective.

 

[Ros]

BPD made a statement today. They are still committed to solving the case and they are still getting hundreds of tips per year. It was reported in the Indy Star. Here's a link, but I am not sure it will work:
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...ain-hopeful-spierer-case-will-solved/9883489/

And on a side note, a severely decomposed body was found in Indy.
http://www.wthr.com/story/25670679/2014/06/02/body-found-on-northeast-side-of-indianapolis

 

[Ros]

fox59.com/2014/06/02/lauren-spierer-investigation-hits-three-year-anniversary-tuesday/#axzz33WitEEfA

BPD received 282 tips last year. The most recent was on May 29, 2014. They are still committed to solving this case.

 

[Ros]

I find the existence of the track meet interesting. (What kind of web sleuths would we be if we didn't think up random longshots?) It occurs to me: if Lauren's disappearance was the work of a random visiting wacko (which I doubt, but if), the only way to establish that would be to look for similar unsolved circumstances occurring elsewhere. (Lone wackos get caught because they have to keep doing it.)

How long has this meet been meeting? I wonder, were they meeting in the year 2000? And if so, what was the date?

The Indiana State High School Athletic Association (IHSAA) has been having state track meets for over a century. In 2000, the meet was at Carroll Stadium at IUPUI in Indianapolis, and it was also on June 3.

http://www.ihsaa.org/SportArchives/...http://ihsaa.org/archive/b-track/b-track.html

 

[Ros]

At your service: the original detective.

Am I correct in thinking that this case would not qualify for consultation by the Vidocq Society because 1) There's no proof of death and 2) She was engaged in illegal activity (underage drinking)?

 

[Vidocq]

Am I correct in thinking that this case would not qualify for consultation by the Vidocq Society because 1) There's no proof of death and 2) She was engaged in illegal activity (underage drinking)?

I'm not actually associated with the Vidocq Society. (They were formed a hundred years after I died.) But not only are the two criteria you mentioned problematic, but, according to Wikipedia there is a third: "the case must be formally presented to them by the appropriate law enforcement agency." From what I've heard, the BPD wasn't overly cooperative with the Dietl PIs, so I wouldn't expect them to get Vidocq involved.

 

[Vidocq]

... In 2000, the meet was at Carroll Stadium at IUPUI in Indianapolis, and it was also on June 3.

http://www.ihsaa.org/SportArchives/...http://ihsaa.org/archive/b-track/b-track.html

I thought maybe you'd say the 2000 meet was held in Bloomington on June 1st (the day after Jill Behrman went missing). That would have been interesting.

 

[akh]

Just because we aren't sure why his lawyer said what he said, doesn't make it irrelevant or meaningless.

I like how holly brought up absolutes. I try to stay away from absolutes too because there is a lot of information we just don't know. You yourself are always quick to point out that there is a lot we don't know, so I'm not sure why you are so quick to deem the lawyer's quote as "certainly meaningless." It might be because of reasons you noted, but several other assumptions can be made the other way too.

It's meaningless to focus on it, let alone draw a conclusion from it (particularly that MB has changed his story several time), because it wasn't in a situation where we could expect 100% accuracy. We might hope for 100% accuracy but it's not a prepared statement, it's early in the case (where details could still be sketchy and not sorted out), and it's not a stretch to think it was done as PR spin (if not a bit of opportunistic grandstanding). It's not so far from the info that was released later (mainly via PI's and civil filings) that it would be an eye opening question (such as if he'd said MB was nowhere near the apartments that night, or even in Bloomington).

But there is a bigger reason it is meaningless: Because we don't know what MB said to police and investigators in the first place, let alone actually said to his attorney or someone in his office. We have nothing to compare it to that is 100% MB's own words.

So we're left declaring his story has changed without actually knowing what his story is and has been all along. That is why it's meaningless.

I asked Holly to put on her criminal defense attorney hat and step into this scenario to look at it from the other side but she didn't do it. But all you have to do is put yourself in MB's attorney's shoes (whether as a new attorney or the original attorney of record that made the statement in the first place), and then ask yourself how much of a problem that attorney comment actually is. Look at it from the angle of it dealing with the prosecutor, in a court of law, or the jury of public opinion. It becomes meaningless.

We can wonder if MB's story has really changed and if the attorney was 100% accurate to what MB had told him when he was interviewed. We can wonder if the neighbor heard and understood what MB was telling him/her and then relayed it accurately to a reporter and whether the reporter got it right. But we can't definitively declare his story has changed because we haven't even heard his story. It does a disservice to the narrative to declare or even imply otherwise. At that point it is speculation and assumption only.

And I'm sorry but this entire topic goes back much earlier in the thread where it was stated that hearing from MB's attorney was the same as hearing from MB. That's not true. It wasn't true all those months ago and it isn't true now. Certainly not in the context we're describing here.

MB's story might've changed... but we have nothing concrete to say anything more than 'might've'.

I'd end that by saying IMHO... But that's not an opinion. That is a fact.

 

[Tugela]

Ok, all quotes here are from MB's lawyer, BBM

"Further, Beth took Spierer to Rosenbaum's residence and left her with Rosenbaum. It was Rosenbaum who allowed Spierer to leave his residence unescorted."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/25/missing-ind-student-lawsuit/2587749/

"They then went to Rossman's building, where Beth, his roommate, put him to bed, said Beth's lawyer, Ronald Chapman.
Beth watched Spierer leave. She then went to Rosenbaum's apartment."

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News&nclick_check=1

""He made Corey go to bed," Chapman said. "He saw her walking out. That was the end of it. He wants her to be found and be OK, but he doesn't have any information that will lead to her discovery."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-11-lauren-spierer-investigation-dna_n.htm

I think we're going in circles with what Chapman said. At the end of the day, we have very limited information to work off of, some of which might be flat out untrue, some of which might be misreported, some of which might be misinterpreted. I wish we had more definite facts to work with, but as it stands most of our information comes from the POIs lawyers, the civil suit, MSM and PIs. Its hard to tell what has been verified, especially since most of the initial articles are now behind a pay wall.

My entire point about this was just that I, personally, find it odd that MB's story has changed. Yes, the initial information came from his lawyer and obviously none of us can know how those statements came about.
When this case first started I thought MB sounded innocent in comparison to the 5N POIs because his role seemed so small that night. The fact that his story of that night has changed (has changed as far as I know, maybe he gave one statement to LE at the very beginning, and that statement hasn't changed. I don't know) makes me suspicious, mainly because I would assume that the sober kid working on a paper all night would have a pretty clear recollection of what happened

If you read those two reports it is pretty obvious that it is the same story, but with two of the guys interposed. Tried to persuade her to stay, sleep on the couch, then she refused and he watched her leave. Except in one report it is Beth doing it, and in the other it is Rosenbaum. It is clear that it is the same account, but someone has gotten the actors mixed up, possibly one of the lawyers but more likely the reporters.

It is just an example of poor reporting. It happens all the time. The court filing will be the accurate story.

 

[RR0004]

Remembering Lauren. <3

 

[Ros]

I thought maybe you'd say the 2000 meet was held in Bloomington on June 1st (the day after Jill Behrman went missing). That would have been interesting.

I thought of Molly Dattilo, but she disappeared in July, I don't recall which year. Margaret Ann Hayes disappeared from Bloomington in March of 1977 and has never been found. No one has been charged with killing Crystal Grubb. So we cannot rule out the possibility of an abduction by a lone perpetrator.

 

[AbbeyR]

6.3.2014

I remember writing once that I didn’t think we’d see an October without Lauren. I never imagined that we would see three years pass without answers. Lauren’s disappearance leaves us with the same intense feelings of loss, hopelessness and despair we felt on June 3, 2011. Even though there have been thousands of tips investigated and dismissed, we are still without answers, still without Lauren.

I couldn’t begin to tell you what I miss the most about Lauren. She is always with me. I cannot think of her without the physical pain that wells up just before the tears begin to flow.

Lauren’s disappearance has impacted many. We have found comfort in the kindness of family, friends and strangers in the wake of incomprehensible pain. We have discovered strength we would never have believed possible.

Many people who knew Lauren have shared their memories. So many have shared the experiences they had while helping search for a young woman they never met. Events have been held, videos created, thoughts shared. People continue to use social media to keep Lauren’s tragic story alive. Those notes, letters, “tweets”, Facebook posts, emails are gifts to our family.

This past March we received the following note from someone we had never met. A remarkable gift I share with you here…


"I can't help you with any answers, I can't even begin to imagine your agony and grief. What I can give you is just a little glimpse of how special your daughter is, not as if you didn't already know.

I was divorced at the age of 50 and after 10 years as a stay at home Mom in a 20 year marriage. If that wasn't traumatic enough for me, even though I had a very successful early career, with a ten year hole in my resume, no college education and a major recession going on, I couldn't get a job no matter how hard I tried. I was desperate. In 2009 I began my college education at the age of 51. I transferred to Bloomington, where my three older brothers had graduated many years before. I did that without knowing enough about IU, that out of 43,000 students, only 200 were non-traditional, older students like myself. Every day students and faculty gave me "that look" that said, "what the heck is she doing here, she doesn't belong here." People were rude and unfriendly. They said there were 200 non-traditional students, I never saw any of them, I was alone in a sea of teenagers/young adults. I had professors who encouraged me to quit and "find some little job you can do." It was very hard for me, the atmosphere that was totally geared toward 18-22 year olds.

I entered my first day of Psychology class. A class of over 200 very young people. We had assigned seating and my assignment was right beside Lauren. Even the professor, through his microphone, in front of 200 people, pointed me out as the "senior member of the class." It was terrible. But Lauren never treated me that way. We talked about where she was from, what her major was, what her interests were, and what had brought her to Bloomington. She listened some to my story. On days that she couldn't make it to class, she e-mailed me and got my notes. On days I couldn't make it, I e-mailed her and got her notes. Lauren was nice to me at a very difficult time in my life. She never once treated me like the old lady who didn't belong there. I appreciated that so very much.

I think of her often, speak of her often, and wish you the peace of knowing that she's at peace. That's all I can offer. That, and a brief glimpse that you raised your daughter right, she was kind and loving, and not judgmental, and she helped me when I needed help most."

* * * * * * * * *

To those responsible for Lauren’s disappearance, I hope your loved ones never meet the evil Lauren met on June 3, 2011.

Someone knows the truth and has the answers we desperately seek. If you have any information please contact us.

For those who continue to encourage and support our efforts to find Lauren, we are eternally grateful. Thank you for remembering Lauren.

Just as determined as day one, hoping this is the year we can finally bring Lauren home.

With appreciation,
Charlene Spierer



“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who do nothing about it.” Albert Einstein

www.findlauren.com
helpfindlauren@gmail.com
Find Lauren – PO Box 1226 – Bloomington, IN 47402
Bloomington Police Department 812.339.4477
Beau Dietl & Associates 800.777.9366

https://www.facebook.com/Lauren.Spierer.Family.Updates

 

[AbbeyR]

“If somebody doesn’t come forward, I don’t know that we’re ever going to get the answers we need,” Charlene Spierer said.

In the first year following her disappearance, Bloomington police had received more than 2,600 tips in Spierer’s case. By the second anniversary, that total had grown to 3,060.

Since then, Bloomington police have received 282 additional tips, according to Bloomington Police Department Capt. Joe Qualters. The most recent tip came on May 29.

“BPD investigators continue to follow up on information that comes in, and our commitment to the case is unwavering. We remain hopeful that someone with knowledge of the circumstances surrounding Lauren's disappearance will do the right thing by stepping up and contacting our agency,” Qualters stated...

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_951d7a53-9d9e-5d99-b573-76c2497d49ee.html

3 years. Thousands of tips. One of these days, one will be the piece of information that will find Lauren. I really believe that.

:heart:

 

[Vidocq]

On the front page of the Herald Times today:

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/fr...cle_87cad9f6-139a-5260-967b-820e296efa30.html

Websleuths.com gets a mention! It's overall an inspiring portrait of what strangers are doing to try to get to the bottom of things.

 

[kpeacock]

Mike Claps, an IU student at the time of Spierer’s disappearance, remembers seeing Spierer that night.
“I saw a girl that had no business being as intoxicated as she was with the people she was with,” he says briefly by phone.
An appeal for 134 days’ worth of Claps’ phone records is just one of an extensive assortment of document and subpoena requests attorneys for the missing girl’s parents have filed in federal court.

(http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/fr...cle_87cad9f6-139a-5260-967b-820e296efa30.html)

From Abby Tonsing's article today, a name I don't recall (though I've not paid close attention to the board lately.) Another POI? Does this make Mike Claps sleuthable?