GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #1

[they'll get you]

I'm not sure what you are getting at TGY. Can you expand on it?
He is certainly vague, that is indisputable.

In the '90's it was a fashionable conflict resolution technique to take someone for coffee on neutral ground in public to discuss things so that their reaction could be moderated. That's what I took their going out for coffee to be ... either that, or it was the venting session ... or working on their marriage/having a quick 'grown-up's' date.

Have I missed something?

We always guessed nig went to help that night, he was there minding the children while GeRed took Allison somewhere. My point is what time was it and did Allison come back?
I don't believe it ended with an innocent chat over a coffee. MOO

No poss this doesn't wash with me. My hinky reads overload.

 

[they'll get you]

GBC and Allison went for coffee on the 18th, the day BEFORE she disappeared.

Ok I'm wrong but my hinky meter is on overdrive with this.

 

[louisepiglet]

Whew. Finally caught up. Firstly, thanks to everyone attending court and keeping us informed.
Poor GBC seems to have encountered the perfect storm. His wife goes missing. Later found dead. He was having an affair. He was having extreme financial difficulties. Scratches himself shaving ( most people cut themselves shaving) on the very morning his wife disappears. Has a car accident on the way to the police station. People hear screams in the vicinity the night before he reports his wife missing. What are the odds. I hope the jury can see how ridiculous this sounds.
And the story NBC told about the vacuum cleaner and the hose. How stupid. Hey Dad. Can you please come over. I am really worried about Allison. She hasn't come home from her walk. Oh by the way can you vacuum and hose someone else's house for me.

 

[Radster]

Yes the prosecution shares the findings with defence.

One of the more recent trials, Cowan's. At the start of the trial all the eye witnesses were called up...all those who had seen Daniel at the bus stop. Then it went on to people who knew or were friends with Cowan.

It wasn't until well into the trial when Cowan's "confession" came into the light & exploded.

It seems to me GBC's trial is going along a similar path. All the witnesses with all they heard the night Allison disappeared. Next week it could be those who knew or had worked with GBC.

And surely at least one of the ex-workmates will say that Nigel and Elaine definitely knew about the affair, thus countering Nigel's testimony yesterday that the marriage seemed "happy"?

 

[Amee]

Ok I'm wrong but my hinky meter is on overdrive with this.

On April 18 this year, Gerard Baden-Clay Googled "taking the fifth" and "self incrimination"

Mr Baden-Clay said he had been watching The Good Wife on Channel 10 and the episode had mentioned the two laws so when his mother asked what they meant he googled to explain it to her. :banghead:


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...-challenged-20121217-2bj9y.html#ixzz34TlzxYtz

 

[itsthevibe]

I feel that TM would have felt "sick at the thought of encountering Allison at the conference", because deep down she would have truly felt shame in knowing that her relationship with GBC wasn't right as he was still married to Allison. Seeing Allison would have reminded her of the wrong. By not encountering Allison she could in some ways avoid the feelings of shame. She could just play the game of justifying that the relationship was right. This is all my humble opinion. No matter how much people try and justify their actions it is impossible for people to not feel shame when they are doing something they know isn't right.

I don't agree. My impressions from reading the transcripts of anything said by TM indicate to me she has no shame. I mean she is actually commenting nastily about Allison being a stay-at-home Mum. Calling her a "lady of lesiure" in the particular situation that arose implies she thinks Allison had it easy. I mean she had 3 children which is not exactly a walk in the park workload-wise.

Then there were all the comments about arrangements and how things could work etc, the tone of them to my mind is quite resentful, angry and unreasonable, speaking as if she (TM) feels very entitled. Something about "you don't afford me the same respect". Like - TM expected to be treated equally to Allison in all respects.

Sorry Toni, Allison was his wife, you were the mistress, and as such you have no rights! Sure, you had the right not to be abused, just as every human being does, but that's all. Sure, it might be disappointing when you have an affair with a married man and he makes promises to you which aren't delivered when you want them to be, but the reality is that you as the mistress are never going to get the time (during the affair) with your lover you think you deserve - because he is married and is spending time with his wife and family. You signed up for an affair, not a consensual arrangement between 3 where everyone has the same rights and entitlements.

I believe Toni wouldn't have liked seeing Allison at the gym because of disappointment and resentment, and her anger at GBC is diverted onto the wife, and the wife is demonised by both to justify the affair. Par for the course with affairs.

 

[itsthevibe]

On April 18 this year, Gerard Baden-Clay Googled "taking the fifth" and "self incrimination"

Mr Baden-Clay said he had been watching The Good Wife on Channel 10 and the episode had mentioned the two laws so when his mother asked what they meant he googled to explain it to her. :banghead:


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...-challenged-20121217-2bj9y.html#ixzz34TlzxYtz

I noticed that little gem - clever idea they cooked up to explain something quite damning. I wonder if those terms actually were mentioned in that episode of The Good Wife? I wonder if it has been checked? Ch 10 could probably supply information about what episode it was, and it could be viewed.

 

[Radster]

Whew. Finally caught up. Firstly, thanks to everyone attending court and keeping us informed.
Poor GBC seems to have encountered the perfect storm. His wife goes missing. Later found dead. He was having an affair. He was having extreme financial difficulties. Scratches himself shaving ( most people cut themselves shaving) on the very morning his wife disappears. Has a car accident on the way to the police station. People hear screams in the vicinity the night before he reports his wife missing. What are the odds. I hope the jury can see how ridiculous this sounds.
And the story NBC told about the vacuum cleaner and the hose. How stupid. Hey Dad. Can you please come over. I am really worried about Allison. She hasn't come home from her walk. Oh by the way can you vacuum and hose someone else's house for me.

Interestingly, the Courier-Mail led with the vacuum/hose element in overnight news, obviously deeming it the most explosive and damning of yesterday's revelations. To me, though, it seems almost TOO obvious (as in, surely Gerard wouldn't be that dumb to basically create the scene wherein his father carries away damning evidence right in front of police officers). Given that he had already been out in the Captiva "searching" for Allison, he had already had time to dispose of vacuums, hoses and mobile phones. I just think this might be one of those elements that looks extremely suss but might be quite innocuous. Not sure.

Speaking of the Captiva, I was reminded this morning about Const Ash's initial observation that Gerard had clearly had to reverse park the Captiva around the back of the Prado after his morning search. I had completely forgotten how ludicrous this is. WHY DIDN'T HE TAKE THE CAR IN FRONT, which was HIS car after all? This as much as the scratches must have been ringing all of Ash's bells.

 

[itsthevibe]

Wendy Mollah seemed a special friend to Allison, why wasn't she asked if Allison walked night or morning or if she did at all? She knew about gerRed's sowing the wild seed and she had the guts to front up. That lady's got spine. Why wasn't she asked more questions about Allison feelings thoughts and fears.
It's now too late, she's off the stand.

Yes, an opportunity missed as I see it. And one of a few. Getting concerned.

 

[marlywings]

I think we all need to remember that it took nearly 2 months for GBC to be arrested, even though they suspected him early on, because they can't do that without solid evidence. He was refused bail because of the evidence AND he was committed to stand trial because of the evidence! It is impossible to get to this point based purely on a facial scratch! Today marks 2 years since his arrest, I don't believe you can keep so done in jail for 2 years with no evidence!
It's not the police making these decisions, it was a judge that refused bail and a judge that committed him to stand trial!

All MOO

Absolutely agree Humdinger! Police know darn well how much evidence is required, even though it may be all classed as circumstantial.

In backpacker murderer case, Ivan Milat, ALL the evidence was also classed as circumstantial.

It took ONLY two months for GBC to be arrested....some cases take years. This tells me police have the trump card on GBC.

We can't just go by the evidence that's known to us from bail/committal hearings. In my opinion, that is only a fraction of the total. There will be loads more to come!!

 

[Amee]

I noticed that little gem - clever idea they cooked up to explain something quite damning. I wonder if those terms actually were mentioned in that episode of The Good Wife? I wonder if it has been checked? Ch 10 could probably supply information about what episode it was, and it could be viewed.

In his bail application, Mr Baden-Clay's lawyer Peter Davis, SC, said a police officer had verified an episode of The Good Wife contained "numerous references" to taking the fifth and self incrimination.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...-challenged-20121217-2bj9y.html#ixzz34ToDZRmP

 

[FirstTimer]

One quite disturbing thing from the court yesterday, and it had nothing to do with the trial, questioning etc, was the poor taste of some of the public gallery pretending to be part of the Dickie family, as a close friend, so they could get to seats first. And once again we have public members being shirty that they cant get seats etc.

Fair go. Think of the families and not your own selfish means.

We later found out that the person pretending to be associated the Dickie family was actually associated with the BCs.

So now the family has to play door ***** as well as try to deal with a murder trial.

Cheers.

 

[marlywings]

I don't agree. My impressions from reading the transcripts of anything said by TM indicate to me she has no shame. I mean she is actually commenting nastily about Allison being a stay-at-home Mum. Calling her a "lady of lesiure" in the particular situation that arose implies she thinks Allison had it easy. I mean she had 3 children which is not exactly a walk in the park workload-wise.

Then there were all the comments about arrangements and how things could work etc, the tone of them to my mind is quite resentful, angry and unreasonable, speaking as if she (TM) feels very entitled. Something about "you don't afford me the same respect". Like - TM expected to be treated equally to Allison in all respects.

Sorry Toni, Allison was his wife, you were the mistress, and as such you have no rights! Sure, you had the right not to be abused, just as every human being does, but that's all. Sure, it might be disappointing when you have an affair with a married man and he makes promises to you which aren't delivered when you want them to be, but the reality is that you as the mistress are never going to get the time (during the affair) with your lover you think you deserve - because he is married and is spending time with his wife and family. You signed up for an affair, not a consensual arrangement between 3 where everyone has the same rights and entitlements.

I believe Toni wouldn't have liked seeing Allison at the gym because of disappointment and resentment, and her anger at GBC is diverted onto the wife, and the wife is demonised by both to justify the affair. Par for the course with affairs.

I agree 100% with all you've said. It was all about her, TM & what she wanted.

From some of TM's statements....she, she, she, TM was jealous of Allison!!


She can get her own place.
She doesn't need to know.
"Im sick of hiding … Im sick of being second best and having to take the back seat … all so she doesn't find out," the email read.
"She gave you an ultimatum and you honoured it???

 

[L_B]

One quite disturbing thing from the court yesterday, and it had nothing to do with the trial, questioning etc, was the poor taste of some of the public gallery pretending to be part of the Dickie family, as a close friend, so they could get to seats first. And once again we have public members being shirty that they cant get seats etc.

Fair go. Think of the families and not your own selfish means.

We later found out that the person pretending to be associated the Dickie family was actually associated with the BCs.

So now the family has to play door ***** as well as try to deal with a murder trial.

Cheers.

That's terrible. Shame on that person.

 

[Couldbe]

One quite disturbing thing from the court yesterday, and it had nothing to do with the trial, questioning etc, was the poor taste of some of the public gallery pretending to be part of the Dickie family, as a close friend, so they could get to seats first. And once again we have public members being shirty that they cant get seats etc.

Fair go. Think of the families and not your own selfish means.

We later found out that the person pretending to be associated the Dickie family was actually associated with the BCs.

So now the family has to play door ***** as well as try to deal with a murder trial.

Cheers.

One would think that the Supreme Court Room Trial process would have been tested in this way before ... and has addressed the issue of availability of seats by providing space in another Court Room/on another Level ... where the direct Trial Video is available for viewing.
I am not sure if the 'Innocent until proven guilty''s family are entitled to both sides ..... or how this works>

 

[FirstTimer]

One would think that the Supreme Court Room Trial process would have been tested in this way before ... and has addressed the issue of availability of seats by providing space in another Court Room/on another Level ... where the direct Trial Video is available for viewing.
I am not sure if the 'Innocent until proven guilty''s family are entitled to both sides ..... or how this works>

There is another room with direct live feed, but these people seem to think they are too good for that.

 

[they'll get you]

GBC and Allison went for coffee on the 18th, the day BEFORE she disappeared.

Ok I'm wrong but my hinky meter is on overdrive with this. Are the dates being played with?

 

[Groundedgirl]

Just a quick point about the children not waking up or hearing anything. One sleuther mentioned about the noise of the tv covering any sounds and I think they have a very valid point.

In the Pistorius trial neighbours many houses away heard arguing and gunshots, but his housekeeper living in the home slept through everything not hearing anything. Why? Because there was a large water feature in front of his room.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

Ok I'm wrong but my hinky meter is on overdrive with this. Are the dates being played with?

Hi TGY. I think the order in which it was reported from court may perhaps have caused some confusion, but it has been discussed previously and was in early statements that N&EBC were watching The Good Wife at A&GBC's place on the night of the 18th. I think the fact that A&GBC went out for coffee together being the reason N&EBC were there might be new info, but i'm pretty sure we have known for quite some time that they were there that night.

ABC was reported missing on the morning of the 20th - and the 19th was the last time she was seen by anyone - so the 18th is the night prior to her dropping the girls at school etc. (Just thought I'd add that to avoid date confusion).

 

[BigT]

In the forensic evidence there is reported traces of Zoloft and Alcohol, but there is no mention of wine at the hairdressers or at dinner? Could this suggest ABC drank after GBC went to bed? ABC met with someone else and drank? Prosecution will adduce a reasonable explanation of the traces of alcohol to head that off no doubt.

In bail hearing it was adduced by defence that ABC iphone accessed the internet at around 6.30AM, Friday 20th, and remained connected for 13 hours. The access was at fig tree pocket tower and the assertion was she was somewhere at that time without GBC knowledge. (Could GBC using the find my iPhone app, have triggered the connection to internet on the ABC phone?)

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-denied-bail-20121214-2beo5.html

Hypothetically, GBC and ABC have a fight, kids don't hear it. Both get injuries and ABC ends up outside in the bushes. Close neighbours hear it. ABC puts on her walking clothes and is off on foot towards Kenmore, but without a lot of yelling and screaming.

Although this hypothetical allows a conclusion that ABC meets foul play or commits suicide unbeknownst to GBC, it also allows a conclusion that GBC follows her in a car, and the fight continues towards Kenmore. (Remember the roundabout interest at some very specific times? Searching the industrial bins may have been for ABC phone?)

(Hopefully GBC iphone's "internal" database will put him on Kholo Bridge and a conclusion can be drawn without any doubt that he left the house)

The noises heard by neighbours at distance away from BC house (Kenmore etc) should not be discounted until all the evidence is heard.