Oscar Pistorius Defense

[Hope4More]

Yes, this is probably the most aggravating trait of OP, as much as I am not him, imo, being part of the human race, we would feel accountable for doing such a horrible thing.
OP behaves for some reason, like he's done some little booboo, says sorry, now lets forget about it. I can hear the frustration in Nel's voice as this became clear to him also. jmo

Prime.....I'm gonna try. . Suspend disbelief. Imagine you shot someone you knew (and maybe cared about), in your own home, accidentally.

Then imagine you are charged with premeditated murder for what was an accident. How would YOU behave?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Prime.....I'm gonna try. . Suspend disbelief. Imagine you shot someone you knew (and maybe cared about), in your own home, accidentally.

Then imagine you are charged with premeditated murder for what was an accident. How would YOU behave?

IDK hope, if it were me, I'd say, lock me up and throw away the key. I don't think I could live with it.

It's probably a better hypothetical if my 25 yr old son was in OP's situation, what would I do then? Yes, that would be very hard, I'd have to think about it.
I also have 2 daughters and if one of them were Reeva. Again, too hard to state how I would react, but I know I'd want answers. Bloody good ones too.

 

[Ncl1968]

IDK hope, if it were me, I'd say, lock me up and throw away the key. I don't think I could live with it.

It's probably a better hypothetical if my 25 yr old son was in OP's situation, what would I do then? Yes, that would be very hard, I'd have to think about it.
I also have 2 daughters and if one of them were Reeva. Again, too hard to state how I would react, but I know I'd want answers. Bloody good ones too.

I would have called ambulance before my lawyer/ friends also the house keeper Frank who was in the same house .
I would have cooperated with police would not hide a phone or girlfriend handbag
I would not lie under oath.......
I would not go on holiday and meet a new girlfriend during a trial where I was accused of murdering my previous girlfriend

 

[4MrsB]

Respectfully snipped for space ...

Some questions to think about:

How much of OP's story is reasonable or unreasonable?

Imo, unreasonable to believe Reeva never spoke after, 'can't you sleep Baba'.

I would like to add to your list of "unreasonable vs reasonable" items:

1. The fact that OP NEVER included in the "warning" to Reeva ("phone the police"), a reason WHY. Call them and tell them what????

REEVA: "ah, hello police...my boyfriend told me to call you."
POLICE: "ok, why? What's the emergency"
REEVA: "I really have no clue. It's pitch dark in here, I can't even tell what he's doing. No clue. He just said call."

Yes, after OP screams "get the F#% out of my house" she could conclude perhaps at that point in time that there's an intruder or perhaps a bear or something very dangerous lurking about somewhere in the house. She doesn't of course know where, nor does she have any details to share with the police why they think this is so. When OP gave her this directive, did he know he would later shout at the intruders and she would then be able to conclude on her own, from this additional info, what is going on? ... Not even a , "call the police, I heard a noise in bathroom & think someone's trying to break in." ???

IMO...no one, but no one, with a lick of sense, hearing an "intruder noise" down the hall, around the corner in the bathroom and STANDING A FEW FEET from the loved one they just spoke to, would not give them something more to go on than a whisper saying only - "call the police, get on floor".

Just ridiculous, so unbelievable IMO.

 

[MsMarple]

I would have called ambulance before my lawyer/ friends also the house keeper Frank who was in the same house .
I would have cooperated with police would not hide a phone or girlfriend handbag
I would not lie under oath.......
I would not go on holiday and meet a new girlfriend during a trial where I was accused of murdering my previous girlfriend

I would have given a statement that morning while the shooting was fresh in my mind, especially since I had a lawyer there to guide me, rather than waiting until the bail hearing where my goal was to persuade the judge to release me from jail.

I recall some heated debate about the integrity of Johnson's and Burger's testimonies because of the delay in coming forward. Couldn't the same be said about Oscar?

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

I would have given a statement that morning while the shooting was fresh in my mind, especially since I had a lawyer there to guide me, rather than waiting until the bail hearing where my goal was to persuade the judge to release me from jail.

I recall some heated debate about the integrity of Johnson's and Burger's testimonies because of the delay in coming forward. Couldn't the same be said about Oscar?

I would not move someone I had just shot.
I would have shouted out of the open bathroom window next to me, rather than leave the person I had just shot alone and run to the other side of the house.
I would have given a detailed description of my girlfriends injuries to Netcare and stayed on the line to listen to advice.
I would not have thought that tape & plastic bags were the best thing to stop bleeding. (This really does make me shudder when I think of what he was doing.)
I would not have been concerned about washing myself.
I would probably have left my t-shirt on until told to take it off.
I would not have held a service for my dead girlfriend which was a clear publicity stunt.
I would not have opened my defence with a hideous apology for 'Taking Someone's Life' at which the family cannot answer back.

Hang on - let me just say this - I would not have lied about what I did to save my own skin and changed my story when things were not going well.

I started out with an open mind on this trial. I really did. I have heard the evidence from OP & frankly it is disgusting. He is guilty of murder in my humble opinion and justice needs to prevail.

 

[cottonweaver]

Whilst I'm tempted to chip in to some of the comments on the previous page…… here's a few snippets and links to SA articles instead (from late April/May Health 24 site) which may be interesting reading, if you haven’t already read them.
I’ve quoted a few of them below, not all of which I agree with but while the trial is suspended they show what some of the SA media has been saying re his defence.

http://www.health24.com/Columnists/...nt-or-do-you-need-him-to-be-innocent-20140422
“You may well believe Oscar's version of events, and believe him to be innocent – even after considering all the evidence, including his testimony. But many of those proclaiming his innocence seem not to be doing so on any rational basis, but rather because they personally really NEED him to be innocent, to preserve comforting images and ideas they hold dear.”

http://www.health24.com/Columnists/Oscar-says-The-dog-ate-my-homework-20140415
“ Even though his explanations and contorted attempts to explain away his responsibility for what happened are becoming increasingly far-fetched and fragmentary, there is something very moving in his very desperation. Behind the performance and the possible manipulation, is a strong sense of a frightened little boy, who may have done something awfully naughty one night, and is scared of the punishment to follow……I have rarely if ever come across a father who chose not to appear in court when his child was on trial, and who refused to even sign a statement for the police about the ammunition charges. This father's absence is ever-present, and his silence is deafening.”

http://www.health24.com/Columnists/Why-we-are-so-glued-to-the-Oscar-trial-20140410
“The Germans have a word for it : Schadenfreude. Taking joy in the misfortune of others.
And a trial such as this one is the ultimate in reality TV and Schadenfreude. We watch Oscar vomiting, we watch grisly images, we watch Barry Roux and Gerrie Nel. Watching the latter is a bit like watching a very large cat playing with a very small mouse. And we are all so glad it’s not us in the dock. But it’s mesmerising.”

A few curveballs too
http://www.health24.com/Mental-Health/News/Did-Reeva-look-like-Oscars-mother-20140414
“Photos presented during Oscar Pistorius’ murder trial show Reeva with her natural hair colour. In these photos the slain model bears a striking resemblance to Pistorius’ late mother, Sheila. This has raised questions about the complexities of Oscar and Reeva’s relationship and brought renewed focus to the interesting topic of mother-son dynamics.”

http://www.health24.com/Columnists/Oscar-Trial-The-shrink-has-shrunk-20140513
“…….Is it not possible that the father might have a relevant disorder, perhaps a personality disorder, which Oscar might have inherited or been influenced by?”

http://www.health24.com/Columnists/Whos-nuts-Oscar-or-his-defence-20140514
Prof Mark Simpson ( Health 24 psych) critiques Vorster’s testimony.

There’s a search button for further Pistorius articles on the site.
 

 

[G.bng]

This is a close up of an earlier shot on this thread. I wondered what was being handed to, or shared with, OP. Would I be right in thinking this is a very large crucifix? Not really the time and the place and why so large? Who were they trying to impress?

Wow... what will it be next! I'm not religious in any way, shape or form, but from my experience living over 40 years in a very catholic country I never once saw there was a "time" for a crucifix nor a specific size either!

 

[seeing_eye]

... and that my friends, is why we should keep religion well away from this. Not seen any evidence but coming to a conclusion anyway? Now, where have we heard that before?

I like this forum because the extremists tend to be kept off it and there is lots of debate & discussion between people who genuinely have respect for each other. To suggest we all start praying is highly disrespectful as not all of us think it does any good at all, as we do not believe in any other being but Human ones.

I must disagree with you here, on more than one point. Religious beliefs can be very important in a trial and can be very weighty in determining the outcome.

I am NOT a believer of any kind of organized religion, yet I am not offended if someone suggests that we all start praying. Even if it does no good at all, what harm does it do? But I am greatly offended by your statement, "...as we do not believe in any other being but Human ones." Perhaps you should change the "we" to an "I?" Because I, for one, believe there are many sentient beings other than humans, many of whom seem to be more intelligent than some humans I've observed.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Seeing Eye - Trying to explain my reasoning for not praying would perhaps take the discussion quite a distance off topic.

So I will accept your point and actually agree with part of it.

The blind faith that some are showing in support of OP does worry me though. In other posts I have stated that I began following his trial with an open mind. However, the more I see, the less I believe.

 

[redheart]

48 Hours is airing a show on Reeva's murder. Of course, being 48 hours, there's bound to be some inaccuracy but I'm going to check it out anyway.

CBS at 10pm ET/PT, today Monday, June 16th.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/sneak-peek-oscar-pistorius-shots-in-the-dark/

 

[Ncl1968]

Have to catch it on YouTube..
Just looked at preview they show a cartoon mock up of the shooting and it shows a woman sitting on the toilet.. Oh dear......

 

[redheart]

Have to catch it on YouTube..
Just looked at preview they show a cartoon mock up of the shooting and it shows a woman sitting on the toilet.. Oh dear......

Actually, the mock up shows her sitting on the magazine rack, not the toilet.

But I know what you mean - that's the kind of inaccuracy I would expect on this show.

 

[4MrsB]

48 Hours is airing a show on Reeva's murder. Of course, being 48 hours, there's bound to be some inaccuracy but I'm going to check it out anyway.

CBS at 10pm ET/PT, today Monday, June 16th.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/sneak-peek-oscar-pistorius-shots-in-the-dark/

Thank you. Have my DVR set for record. I don't expect anything new or enlightening that most of the people posting on this site have not already heard or read, but I am still very interesting in watching...just in case. Thank you for sharing this.

 

[cottonweaver]

Wow... what will it be next! I'm not religious in any way, shape or form, but from my experience living over 40 years in a very catholic country I never once saw there was a "time" for a crucifix nor a specific size either!

I must say that after over 40 years of living amongst some very active Catholic family members and being raised as one myself (despite lapsing years ago) I can see that the original poster was probably trying to highlight the issue that the Pistorius family might have been making a show of their faith as part of a defence strategy.

Some of my daily mass-going relatives- who I have the greatest respect for- whose homes are host to statues, relics, holy water and pilgrimage reminders would not be so crass as to make such public pronouncements of their faith as the Pistorius family have over the last year and a half. Funnily the most devout of them agree with the original poster.

But you see, there are Catholics and there are "Catholics" and same goes for OP's own Christian denomination.

Let's not forget Op has spoken often of what God can do for him.
And without repentance there is no absolution, so a string of rosary beads might have served him better than a cross.

So, as a rule it's probably not a good idea to use God in this - for OP & family it is of course their absolute right to use him as a source of personal succour and I'm sincerely sure Aimee needs every bit of that right now.

 

[MsMarple]

48 Hours is airing a show on Reeva's murder. Of course, being 48 hours, there's bound to be some inaccuracy but I'm going to check it out anyway.

CBS at 10pm ET/PT, today Monday, June 16th.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/sneak-peek-oscar-pistorius-shots-in-the-dark/

Thank you - I would have missed it otherwise. :tyou:

I've set it to DVR. I'm west coast so a couple of more hours to go.

 

[Hope4More]

Cottonweaver...I'm looking for the roll eyeballs icon in response to all those psychobabble irrelevant articles you linked to......I yi yi yi.

 

[cottonweaver]

Cottonweaver...I'm looking for the roll eyeballs icon in response to all those psychobabble irrelevant articles you linked to......I yi yi yi.

Ya, that's the problem with emoticons they can't express a wider range of subtler shades of opinion can they?

Surprised that in the articles you refer to you haven't picked up Prof Simpson's ( psychiatrist not psychologist nor analyst) impatience with "psychobabble" as he mentions it often in the articles.

Two additional phrases "a few curveballs" and "I don't actually agree with all the points" but some of them are interesting and some of them have some balance, occasionally funny da da da and BECAUSE it's a Forum it's worth sharing because a couple more readers might find them worth checking out for any of those reasons. (Especially as the trial is suspended- not a lot of topical issues around at the moment.)

I actually agree with you however on a couple of of your larger points about the case so far BUT viewpoints aren't static - or at least they shouldn't be, plus there's more to come in this case.

But do you still feel the way you did:
Trial thread 34 page 66

"Personally I feel zero emotion about this case, and never have felt any. As some other long term members have said, for me it just isn't all that absorbing or interesting. As much as anything I'm here to play devil's advocate. And no, I don't mean that literally. "

And I'm not asking that in any snarky, snide way.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Ya, that's the problem with emoticons they can't express a wider range of subtler shades of opinion can they?

Surprised that in the articles you refer to you haven't picked up Prof Simpson's ( psychiatrist not psychologist nor analyst) impatience with "psychobabble" as he mentions it often in the articles.

Two additional phrases "a few curveballs" and "I don't actually agree with all the points" but some of them are interesting and some of them have some balance, occasionally funny da da da and BECAUSE it's a Forum it's worth sharing because a couple more readers might find them worth checking out for any of those reasons. (Especially as the trial is suspended- not a lot of topical issues around at the moment.)

I actually agree with you however on a couple of of your larger points about the case so far BUT viewpoints aren't static - or at least they shouldn't be, plus there's more to come in this case.

But do you still feel the way you did:
Trial thread 34 page 66

"Personally I feel zero emotion about this case, and never have felt any. As some other long term members have said, for me it just isn't all that absorbing or interesting. As much as anything I'm here to play devil's advocate. And no, I don't mean that literally. "

And I'm not asking that in any snarky, snide way.

So many nagging questions ...

Why did Oscar go back upstairs for a while after other people had arrived, but before the police came? What did he do? He doesn't seem to have been asked about this.

Why are a few odd things, such as the placement and movement of the fans and the duvet, so deeply important to him, actually moving him to tears?

Why and how does he think the police moved various objects, influencing his version of events, long before any of them knew what that version would be?

Who is this ‘Hairy’ Nel a certain Australian journalist keeps on referring to?

Why did Oscar need total darkness in the room, supposedly to sleep, to the extent that he was bothered about a small blue LCD on an amplifier? And then, why leave the balcony lights on? And ignore the small LED's on the light switches?

Where were the coffee mugs? Oscar said that when they went to bed they each had a cup of coffee. What happened to the empty mugs? I saw no trace of them in the bedroom pictures. If they were later found in the kitchen, who had carried them downstairs, and when?

After the gun went off in the restaurant, he insists that he told the manager he would pay for all the damages. What damages?

http://www.health24.com/Columnists/Do-you-hope-Oscar-is-innocent-or-do-you-need-him-to-be-innocent-20140422

I love this part of the nagging thoughts that bother most people and his sense of humour.

Thank you for sharing cotton.

BTW, RE the mugs, Lisa may have said one did come up on a pic on the pedestal, not sure if right or left? Don't quote me on that, just trying to go by memory. Might hunt around for it later.

 

[cottonweaver]

I love this part of the nagging thoughts that bother most people and his sense of humour.

Exactly.

If it was a 100% "open and shut case" it wouldn't be quite so interesting to us.

This is after all called Websleuths!:gathering: