The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 16th June - Trial Day 4

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Was surprised that this court didn't bring up really new info to discuss- I was expecting to hear about the 5th statement that TM made and the details of the diary entries where GBC had belittled Allison. We saw a pic of the layout of Toni's apt but again nothing seemingly came from it apart from it was part of discussion between GBC and Allison. So was surprised how close Toni's testimony was to the comittal hearing.
 
Trooper said:
the longer this goes on , the more convinced I am that Gerard will take the stand...

if Alison being depressed is all there is... I cant see how he can avoid not going on the stand..

not that his barristers would encourage him. its always better if they don't, particularly a client who is publicly silly... but.. I think he will.
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I don't know, but last night I ended up reading a lot of the early threads and someone posted (name began with 'H' from memory) that if it's a circumstantial case put forth by prosecution, GBC will not take the stand. That poster went on further -- wish I'd saved it. Said even if GBC pleads guilty, he would not be required to testify. Damn, I knew I should have saved that post. Not a wasted word and it sounded very professional and knowledgeable. The gist of it was, this isn't tv. There won't be any US-style courtroom theatrics/aggressive cross questioning. If I have time later, I'll try to find it. Anyway, he ruled out the possibility of GBC taking the stand
 
laserdisc10 said:
Defence is up the creek with no paddle

A few pages back, reports from the trial revealed his affair with TM (according to TM) continued until April 2012, didn't they?
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In a barbed wire canoe too.

They can show there were inconsistencies in his relationship with Toni, but at the time of Allison's death there are emails that prove he wasn't telling Toni that he chose Allison over her. Quite the contrary.

They can show a history of some degree of depression, which varies depending on who is speaking, but at the time of her death Allison seemed to be managing quite well. Even if they want to claim that she suddenly became overwhelmed with a lethal suicide plan that night, that leaves the question of how she died 14km from home with no apparent method of suicide.

Looking at the weakness of the defence so far makes it easier for me to see why the prosecution is not coming out with hard hitting questions. Why take the risk of putting tricky questions to these witnesses when you can't fully anticipate how they will respond? There's a chance that it could backfire and put doubt over the prosecutions case. I'd say it's safer to wait and summarise the inconsistencies in a closing argument where the witnesses can't respond with answers that could confuse or mislead the jury. Let the Baden-Clays dig their hole but don't give them a chance to climb back out. Hope that's what's happening anyway :)
 
Makara said:
Mistress describes Baden-Clay affair

Yahoo!7 June 16, 2014, 6:37 pm

The former mistress of Gerard Baden-Clay has broken down in the witness box describing details of their 'roller coaster' love affair. Katrina Blowers reports.

Video at this link.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/qld/video/watch/24249843/mistress-describes-baden-clay-affair/?cmp=twitter

BqPI3yQCUAAL9Pc.png
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:lol:
 
Doidy said:
Agree absolutely vile thing to say but I also thought maybe she put her foot in it as prosecution followed up with questioning suggesting allison was pregnant and as well as nauseau and vomiting isn't bladder control also adversely affected by pregnancy hormones? I remember having to wee every 20 mins from when I was 5 weeks on
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I know when I vomit or cough or sneeze I sometimes have "little accidents". Comes with the territory of having had a baby/ies. I have never heard of someone wetting themselves from anxiety. Not anyone over 5 years old anyway.
 
laserdisc10 said:
I don't know, but last night I ended up reading a lot of the early threads and someone posted (name began with 'H' from memory) that if it's a circumstantial case put forth by prosecution, GBC will not take the stand. That poster went on further -- wish I'd saved it. Said even if GBC pleads guilty, he would not be required to testify. Damn, I knew I should have saved that post. Not a wasted word and it sounded very professional and knowledgeable. The gist of it was, this isn't tv. There won't be any US-style courtroom theatrics/aggressive cross questioning. If I have time later, I'll try to find it. Anyway, he ruled out the possibility of GBC taking the stand
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he certainly isn't required to testify.. not at any stage.. that is his inviolable right.. and its true, regarding a circumstantial case..

but .. with gerard.. there are the gouges in the face.. the neighbors hearing screams, the thud of the car boot at the Kholo bridge.. the deadline he set to Toni.. the unpaid insurance bill. .. not entirely circumstantial. partly so, as all murder cases usually are, since no one does it at high noon in the main street.. its a secretive thing.. most murder trials are circumstantial..

but I think Gerard will want to take the stand.. I really do.. he will think he can save the day with his 'drive', his 'incredible teaching skills', his 'charisma'...
 
Liadan said:
Here are a few reflections from my court experience today folks. Had the best day in court observing proceedings.

Today was what I (imagine) an important and integral day in the case against GBC. To be quite frank I think Mrs. Dickie stole the show. She was not suffering fools and being talked down to by people who claimed to know what her daughter was about - her view of Allison was coming through above all else.

Yes she was Allison's mum and foremost advocate but you got the feeling that their relationship was totally solid through time and that maybe they had times where a mum and daughter disagreed but they pulled together as soon as the heat of the moment passed. You got the feeling that if Allison ever said 'hey mum' Mrs Dickie would have already been there to support her girl.

The kayaker - was incredibly professional - he refused to be drawn on any inferences from the defense and was a picture of clarity in his descriptions his actions and on his hobby and the basic reasons for being in the area.

Kerrianne was lovely - and I can only I hope my bestie -would support me this well. She was circumspect and measured in her responses to the stupid questions the defense pushed her around on. The time frames - what exactly would your best friend tell you - everyone has areas in their life they don't reveal too much about and a best friend by definition is going to be respectful of those boundaries!!! So go suck that up defense counsel.

It brings us to ....Olivia - can't be bothered to write about her stand time. Wringing hands -charismatic stories about her depressive episodes that led GBC to be overly active in the parenting of the girls. Such amazing stories all about Allison struggling yet she was such a capable woman - insightful and an active problem solver. What would you SERIOUSLY expect Allison to do. There was no way Allison could remedy her husbands infidelity and lack of respect... and these family members are basically enabling dear poor fallen on hard times brother Jerred.

So while nothing was revealed that I didn't already know - perhaps some incidental comings and goings of the senior baden-clay clan on the day that Allison was reported missing. I think it just goes to show that the only people embellishing stories and bringing depression/suicide to the table are the supporters of GBC.
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:clap: TY Liadan
 
Trooper said:
but I think Gerard will want to take the stand.. I really do.. he will think he can save the day with his 'drive', his 'incredible teaching skills', his 'charisma'...
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Considering the degree of delusional superiority and self-righteousness demonstrated by the rest of his DNA pool, I wouldn't be surprised.
 
BreakingNews said:
Actually I thought she was more articulate today than she was at the committal. She got flustered and teary, but was what I expected of her. I still think she was a persistent, disillusioned, controlling and I can imagine her acting similar to a 2yo in a supermarket.

I don't think she had any idea of reality. When I left court, I was even thinking maybe it was her that did it. (Not really, but the motive was there).

Oh, and she went to GBC's house on 2 occasions when Allison was away. How gross and disrespectful is that!!!!!:jail::jail::jail:
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I think there is a bus pulling out soon and the Defence are aiming to throw TM under it.
 
Makara said:
I think there is a bus pulling out soon and the Defence are aiming to throw TM under it.
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the trouble with casting Toni as the killer.. ( and it would require a big turn from the 'suicide theory' ) is.. where is Gerard while Toni is doing this??
 
Trooper said:
he certainly isn't required to testify.. not at any stage.. that is his inviolable right.. and its true, regarding a circumstantial case..

but .. with gerard.. there are the gouges in the face.. the neighbors hearing screams, the thud of the car boot at the Kholo bridge.. the deadline he set to Toni.. the unpaid insurance bill. .. not entirely circumstantial. partly so, as all murder cases usually are, since no one does it at high noon in the main street.. its a secretive thing.. most murder trials are circumstantial..

but I think Gerard will want to take the stand.. I really do.. he will think he can save the day with his 'drive', his 'incredible teaching skills', his 'charisma'...
Click to expand...

He would consider taking the stand as taking control, wouldn't he? The boy scout saves the day!
 
laserdisc10 said:
I don't know, but last night I ended up reading a lot of the early threads and someone posted (name began with 'H' from memory) that if it's a circumstantial case put forth by prosecution, GBC will not take the stand. That poster went on further -- wish I'd saved it. Said even if GBC pleads guilty, he would not be required to testify. Damn, I knew I should have saved that post. Not a wasted word and it sounded very professional and knowledgeable. The gist of it was, this isn't tv. There won't be any US-style courtroom theatrics/aggressive cross questioning. If I have time later, I'll try to find it. Anyway, he ruled out the possibility of GBC taking the stand
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It would have been Hawkins I'd say laserdisc.
 
Would someone mind putting up the link to the photo of the blood stain in the back of the car please.
 
Makara said:
I think there is a bus pulling out soon and the Defence are aiming to throw TM under it.
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Yes I think that has crossed quite a few minds.

She's going to need an alibi made of titanium. The old went home, went to bed isn't going to cut it.
 
Trooper said:
the trouble with casting Toni as the killer.. ( and it would require a big turn from the 'suicide theory' ) is.. where is Gerard while Toni is doing this??
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And it could also be asked - where was Toni while Gerard was murdering his wife? Or in the hours after for that matter?

Am I the only one who thinks that TM knows exactly what happened that night. That she is fully aware that GBC killed Allison and disposed of her body at Kholo Creek Bridge. I'm not saying that she actually had a hand in Allison's murder but knew about it ony a short while later.
 
Liadan said:
You are the BEST! TGY!!! (well ok there are a few that fall into the category here - but IKYKWIM as TM would say.....:great:
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It's true isn't it? Us mums who push out 3 bowling balls and are expected to have everything intact?
Us mums know and protect each other because we are a force.
We should have each other's backs and giggle together about the unfortunate things that happen after we go to hell and back for the love of our husbands and babies AND WE DO IT ALL AGAIN!

we don't put each other down when we poop on the delivery table or spew in a bag outside Coles or our breasts leak milk at the worst possible time.

ITS ALL IN THE NAME OF LOVE. DID YA HEAR ME OW? LOVE AND FORGIVENESS

YOU JUST MIGHT KNOW JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS FOR YOUR SINS DAMMIT!
 
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