The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 19th June - Trial Day 7, Week 2

[tarjessi]

I believe that GBC may have smothered her in bed. Remember the 000 call where he firstly mentioned "when we" went to bed, then changed it to I? Not a doctor, but am wondering if there is necessarily any blood when someone is smothered? If not, this may explain why there was no blood on the sheets. I believe he may have hit her in the head on something as he was trying to load her into the car. This may also have been the same time her tooth was chipped etc. If her head was hit, as has been mentioned in earlier threads, this may also account for the advanced state of decomposition in that area. IMO

I believe you are right in also stating that there are times when smothering does not cause any blood to leave the body. It is possible he hit her on the head but I am not sure where that occurred as no blood splatter had been found in the house, although there could have been splatter on the outside of the car and that has not been mentioned as yet. There could have been blood splatter in the carport that has not been mentioned so smothering in bed is a definite possibility.

I believe the major damage was around her jaw which was in contact with the muddy water. Allison's body was mummified on one side and severely decomposed on the other and her neck and chin on one side had completely deteriorated. They stated that they thought there was possible damage to her chin due to the way the decomposition had occurred. I didn't think there were any fractures on her body at all but I could have misread the report.

Just thoughts after reading so much in the last few days but there is so much detail to remember. I really don't know if I am even close in what I am imagining happened. Only G will ever know and I don't think he will ever tell. I am very curious to see what scenario the prosecution presents in determining how Allison ended up under the bridge.

 

[LadyBird1]

Note the very early familiarity with Constable Ash. Con artistes and BS artistes use familiarity early and frequently to insert themselves into the 'group' so to speak. (Hey Ash, I'm your pal) MOO

That's a very astute observation KG1 Never thought of that. But I sure did see a LOT of that sort of stuff with her brother. Stuck out like a sore thumb in fact. He kept throwing in all manner of personal type stuff such as might be taken as being with the "in group."

 

[Consider]

I think the whole treadmill story is symptomatic of the way Gered treated Allison. Allison had failed to live up to Gered's high standards and had put on weight. He's pretty porky, but that's OK; he's a man.

He nagged/teased/ridiculed Allison about her appearance including her weight. He ordered that she do something about it. He then became angry because she spent money on a treadmill to lose weight. I dread to think what he said or would have said if she didn't use the treadmill enough for his liking.

The moral of this story is that Allison could do no right.

GBC is a far too common type of male. IMO
When Allison worked - he complained about it.
When Allison parented day and night - he complained about it.

GBC and his family have shown no gratitude or empathy for Allison since her tragic loss to them all.
OW SAYS she 'loved' Allison (It's easy said 100 times a day, but was Allison made to repeatedly FEEL loved, wanted and appreciated or replaceable?)
Allison was always going to be the vessel to carry the enormous load of GBC's excuses and his profound inability to be accountable for his life's circumstances/choices. IMO

 

[Thinking]

The time frame just gets more and more blurred for me - the younger children were coming to GBC for a sleepover on the Friday night, and then why would Allison plan a dinner with a friend. They were quite young children and certainly would have needed a Mum at home during a sleepover.

Now the screams, didn't think to come forward beforehand, in the early days there was much talk about a group of teenagers having a party near the river and sound possibly carrying, that won't have nudged your memory?
This case is getting stranger, it would appear the only evidence they have against him is the gouges on his face, I am thinking he might walk. Surely we can't be outsmarten by GBC

Forgive me if this has already been responded to spratsmum

Firstly, OW explained in her testimony that when they were planning the Friday sleepover, they had agreed that Olivia would also sleep at Allison and Gerard's house to help out with all the littlies. She alleged the final details were discussed by her and A during that 8:30pm phone call on the Thursday night. So there would have been an extra adult/mum there if A went out.

In any event, A had asked Wendy on the 15th, to have dinner with her on the 20th, so likely wouldn't have made the sleepover arrangement until after Wendy
Indicated she couldn't go to dinner.

Finally, from what I've read today, I think the neighbours did actually give a statement to police about their teenagers making the noise, but they never heard back about it until last weekend when the defence approached them. Anyone correct me if anything here is wrong!

 

[Waiting for Justice]

Girls.... No matter what you hear, no matter what you read. ALWAYS remember how your Mum made you feel....LOVED. Your Mum LOVED you all to infinity and beyond! NOTHING in this world will change her love for you ALL. Remember how Mum made you feel.

 

[Miss W]

I think he dropped alison carrying her to the car because it was dark he did not see the blood.

Because he was trying to get away with what he'd done there was no way he was allowing the interior light in the car to come on and I am sure whilst he was driving he would not want to look Alison so he may have never realized she'd bled until the police searched the car. As yet we have not heard a reason from GBC why Alison's blood is in the car.

 

[Freya1977]

Is it any wonder how the rumour got around early about "No hands"
From someone close to someone:
Allison BC has been found under Kholo Creek Bridge.
No-one could see her hands.
Her hands were not visible.
Her hands were missing!!
It was "a little bit" true. Her hands were hidden within her jumper.

Also one hand had lost all the skin and bones were visible.....that may have contributed. Sorry for the graphic words

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[Makara]

At this stage I'd go with "around 7pm" as that is the time she gave in court on Trial Day 2. There's no mention of the time in her actual statement.

The previous time of 6.30pm was noted in BrisbaneTimes from bail hearing...

June 27, 2012

April 19, 2012 (the day, police allege, Mrs Baden-Clay was killed)

Mr Baden-Clay and his alleged mistress, Toni McHugh, have a conversation in the afternoon about their relationship's future.

About 6.30pm, Mrs Baden-Clay leaves her local Kenmore hairdresser.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz354i2bEx6

No Monique Waymouth didn't mention a time in her statement.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9079590&postcount=34"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*[/ame]


Excerpt from the first bail application hearing.

Enquiries identifed that the deceased had been planning on attending a real estate conference on 20 April 2012. Enquiries identified that the deceased had had her hair done at a local Kenmore hairdresser on the afternoon of the 19 April 2012 leaving at 6:30pm. The hairdresser who was present, Monique Waymouth, was interviewed and stated that the deceased was having her hair done as she was attending a real estate conference the next day (20 April 2012).

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9048041&postcount=3"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*[/ame]


BBM. I take this to mean that the enquiries that identifed when Allison left the salon came from Monique Waymouth.

I suppose it didn't matter all that much to the investigators or they would have investigated further as to the actual time Allison left the salon. There is probably also CCTV of her leaving the salon that we've not heard about.

 

[Freya1977]

Agree... the panicking grabs to the neck, face and chest areas all resemble finger width scratching too.... All done with a pillow over the head or being pushed into water from above... hands on shoulders held under water... her grabbing at him, whatever she could get her hands on.

He must have been blissful that it was taking so long to find her ... all the decomposition, removing the evidence.

Smug **ick

I always had an inkling that she may have been drowned in the bath. I'm not sure if the even had a bath but it just always sprang to mind

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[they'll get you]

Uhhhh, lol. You're talking about genders... male gender, female gender and any gender in between.

Homosexuality isn't a gender.
But yes, we love them any way.

Ah yes but they can change their gender legally can't they.
By name and by operation, legally.

We love em anyway. we can't choose the genders.... yet.

 

[buzzinjess]

I wondering if the blood in the Captiva could be a result of Alison biting her tongue (during a blow that caused her tooth to chip) or from the root of the chipped tooth (where it joins the gums). If the blood was in her mouth then mixed with saliva it would have gone further and could of dripped like the pattern on the car.
What Im really stumped by is how little evidence there is.. We know the BCs arent the brightest at covering things up so how could he have ensured he got her down there, got rid of the phone and got back without dragging some mud somewhere or being seen.. It just doesnt add up.. If it wasnt for the scrathes I would think he payed someone else to do it.. Hang on.. heres a real twist.. What if he did pay someone else to do and deliberately planted the scratches on his face so Police would look at him as the main suspect knowing full well they'd never convict him because he didnt actually do it so it couldnt be proven?? Just a wild thought..

 

[they'll get you]

4:52pm: On Monday, the jury will visit the Kholo Creek bridge where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found on April 30, 2012.

The jury will also visit the Baden-Clays' former Brookfield home on Brookfield Road, as well as properties along nearby Boscombe Road.

Mr Baden-Clay will not attend what is termed "the view"

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-7-week-2-20140619-3af2d.html#ixzz354V4sqhx

Why Boscombe Road? That's were Allison's phone showed it was.

Scraps (the dog) and Mrs Apps. I find that interesting.

Did I hear somewhere little Scraps died?

 

[they'll get you]

What about A-sexual?

mophrodite

 

[LadyBird1]

Why Boscombe Road? That's were Allison's phone showed it was.

Scraps (the dog) and Mrs Apps. I find that interesting.

Did I hear somewhere little Scraps died?

Forgot to add Scraps to the Time-frame. That was very important evidence giving IMO.
Apologies for omission. Will amend next version.
It wasn't just Scraps going off and carrying on out of the ordinary (ie acting berserk), but all the dogs in the neighborhood from what I gathered earlier.

 

[Freya1977]

mophrodite

No, not the same as asexual.

Asexual refers to sexuality, hermaphrodite or mophrodite is gender.

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[coolcat]

I remember a photo floating around on this site of Allison's body position is there still a link to that.... Sorry if it has been asked for before but I can't seem to find it anywhere in the evidence links... Can you help perhaps Marly?

 

[Couldbe]

Forgive me if this has already been responded to spratsmum

Firstly, OW explained in her testimony that when they were planning the Friday sleepover, they had agreed that Olivia would also sleep at Allison and Gerard's house to help out with all the littlies. She alleged the final details were discussed by her and A during that 8:30pm phone call on the Thursday night. So there would have been an extra adult/mum there if A went out.

In any event, A had asked Wendy on the 15th, to have dinner with her on the 20th, so likely wouldn't have made the sleepover arrangement until after Wendy
Indicated she couldn't go to dinner.

Finally, from what I've read today, I think the neighbours did actually give a statement to police about their teenagers making the noise, but they never heard back about it until last weekend when the defence approached them. Anyone correct me if anything here is wrong!

Cannot understand why the Police chose to ignore the evidence of Stephanie Apse about she and her children arguing and her daughter screaming about a spider web at approx 9.45pm on 19 April.

This would now appear to cancel out relevance of the evidence given by witnesses during the Trial ....... with regard to arguing and screaming between approx 9pm and 10pm that night.

However, the evidence of Stephanie Apse may only be likely be seen to explain and remove the confusion about, what many of us have been pondering ........ two timeframes of screams, thuds and vehicle screeching talked about in evidence by other witnesses last week at the Trial. These other times were quoted as approximately between 11pm in Brookfield and 12.30pm out Anstead way.

Maybe it was prudent that the Prosecution include the earlier timeframe which the Defence could give a possible explanation for; as in my opinion, the Defence are struggling to offer anything concrete with regard to other evidence ....... e.g. I didn't hear them offer an explanation on how the said razor could actually have performed the gouges on GBC's face. As was stated .... sharp (not blunt) razors are more likely to make nicks on men's faces!

 

[Freya1977]

I remember a photo floating around on this site of Allison's body position is there still a link to that.... Sorry if it has been asked for before but I can't seem to find it anywhere in the evidence links... Can you help perhaps Marly?

This one?

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[Mumma Bear]

In a way, today's surprise witness strengthens the case for premeditation. If all the earlier screams and arguing can be attributed to another source, then we're left with a possible scenario of GBC waiting until the girls are deeply asleep and then suffocating Allison. It's not in the context of a heated argument.

I question if he had the b@lls to broach Toni's demands - and with everything about to collide for him - women, finances, reputation - the idea that had previously only been a fantasy was put into action.

 

[Brightbird]

Ah yes but they can change their gender legally can't they.
By name and by operation, legally.

We love em anyway. we can't choose the genders.... yet.

It's complicated, to be sure. People change their biological sex because they identify with the opposite gender....and they want to change their body to match. It gets more tricky when a person is comfortable with their biological sex but not with the gender they were raised as. Afaik the law doesn't allow someone to keep their male body and legally identify as female or intersex, for example. Sexual orientation is another matter. If someone is biologically male (sex), identifies more as a female (gender), is attracted to males (orientation), but doesn't want the operation to legally change their gender, they would probably be labelled as homosexual in our society but that may be not how they see themselves. Anyway I know this is OT and all combinations are good in my book