The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 19th June - Trial Day 7, Week 2

[Couldbe]

I keep wondering what I'd think if I were on the jury... It's really hard because I already believed him guilty.

I try to put that aside and look at
*Scratches
*Blood in car
*Plant matter in hair

I think that's enough because those 3 facts are irrefutable IMO and they are damning IMO.

But then I wonder if, as a juror, and knowing nothing else, how would I see it?

Closing statements will be interesting!

..... and don't forget the MOTIVE(S) ..... forthcoming money as a result of Allison's death / involvement/pressure entailed in current-ongoing affair with Toni McHugh.

 

[Zim]

Her trainers were missing according to GBCs interview with police in the am of day 1.

In addition, where are her PJs? Did she sleep in them? Were they in a pile on the bathroom floor after hurriedly getting into her walking gear? Were her conference clothes ironed and ready to go?

If she planned an early morning walk before a big work day she needed to be organised. IMO

I do not think she had any intention of going 'out' for a walk 'that' day...hair 'do', conference etc. We only have the 'idea' of a walk from GBC and we all know how reliable his word is....

 

[louisepiglet]

Ah yes .. they were only planning to send the girls to a school they couldn't afford .. :banghead:

ALLISON Baden-Clay's family is raising money to send her daughters to Ipswich Girl's Grammar School where Allison was educated.

Allison's family has thrown its arms around her daughters HBC, SBC and EBC as her murder remains a mystery.

Her Ipswich cousin Leah Moore said the family had united to raise money for the girls.

"Allison's dream was to send the girls to Ipswich Girl's Grammar School so that's our aim, to ensure they do," Ms Moore said.

http://www.qt.com.au/news/allison-always-wanted-ipswich-for-her-girls/1394320/

That must be what I remember. Told you my memory is bad. lol

 

[squizzey1]

So true.
Sadly my exact experience and my ex grew up having once lived in Brookfield.
In my case my father-in-law (very old school, pretentious voice with no financial success of his own) to this day lives with my 50yr old ex (and my "pretty, firm and 10 year younger replacement).

NBC was too involved in his son's life and and unfair expectations re the family name I suspect.

In my circumstances - refuge helped, centrelink too, lawyers invoices soaked up settlement so no deposit for a roof over our heads of our own, we rent.

He 'forgot' these past few years to make seeing the kids a priority beyond a few hours each year - so that and having control of the remote control, being allowed to express their opinions and not seeing me be 'hurt' by him anymore is priceless freedom we never dared dream of. Heehee.

There are no friends or family to reach out to though. He eneded those a decade ago and sadly some people thought we were 'successful' (and so,are naturally fairly pleased I/we came unstuck I suspect) with our 'appearance' (we were not successful on any level in hindsight but certainly had the look of it!).

The double degree as you say needed dusting off and isn't worth it's stamp today. The future? Who knows - I trust no one and men? Forget about it.

But after tears and managing thoughts without any form of medication I continue to stand up in court and fight off all his new challenges.

Keeping us housed, fed, healthy and happy until all adults and truly free of him is priority.

If my daughter were forced to spend alternate weeks alone with him - I don't know that leaving would have been an intelligent decision. I stayed to protect her from ever being left for even an hour in his sole care - emotional and psychological damage are hard to prove when a man 'appears' to have so much to offer as opposed to an old, suddenly single mum...

We left, months later Allison went missing. I relate to aspects of her life reported but more to what I suspect never will be.

Replacement is being a bit hard on yourself . don't sell yourself short , good luck for a happy future :seeya:

 

[spratsmum]

Thanks Marly.
I wonder what G's schedule looked like that day if all the hoopla with the hole didn't happen. Did he really need dad's help with vacuuming? Was he so busy if business was bad? would he have gone underneath the house and come back out if the police were arriving? really? What's in the bag? There are so many things that have had opportunity to come up in court, but they seem near misses to me . Hope it gets pulled together in the end. Welcome back to all you oldies…(Squizz dying to ask if you happen to know any of the witnesses personally????) can I ask that? :coffeews:

I think NBC was the handyman for real estate agency - little bit of income, tax deductions. And fills in the day

 

[Couldbe]

So true.
Sadly my exact experience and my ex grew up having once lived in Brookfield.
In my case my father-in-law (very old school, pretentious voice with no financial success of his own) to this day lives with my 50yr old ex (and my "pretty, firm and 10 year younger replacement).

NBC was too involved in his son's life and and unfair expectations re the family name I suspect.

In my circumstances - refuge helped, centrelink too, lawyers invoices soaked up settlement so no deposit for a roof over our heads of our own, we rent.

He 'forgot' these past few years to make seeing the kids a priority beyond a few hours each year - so that and having control of the remote control, being allowed to express their opinions and not seeing me be 'hurt' by him anymore is priceless freedom we never dared dream of. Heehee.

There are no friends or family to reach out to though. He eneded those a decade ago and sadly some people thought we were 'successful' (and so,are naturally fairly pleased I/we came unstuck I suspect) with our 'appearance' (we were not successful on any level in hindsight but certainly had the look of it!).

The double degree as you say needed dusting off and isn't worth it's stamp today. The future? Who knows - I trust no one and men? Forget about it.

But after tears and managing thoughts without any form of medication I continue to stand up in court and fight off all his new challenges.

Keeping us housed, fed, healthy and happy until all adults and truly free of him is priority.

If my daughter were forced to spend alternate weeks alone with him - I don't know that leaving would have been an intelligent decision. I stayed to protect her from ever being left for even an hour in his sole care - emotional and psychological damage are hard to prove when a man 'appears' to have so much to offer as opposed to an old, suddenly single mum...

We left, months later Allison went missing. I relate to aspects of her life reported but more to what I suspect never will be.

Dear Consider ..... Your stress at the moment would be so so hard to manage, but you must be strong enough within yourself to do it (many others are not so able to do it / others do ... like yourself). Here's to you! and please do not give up on yourself and your daughter ....... one never knows what is about to happen for you next ...... but that is mostly 'out of your hands'; continue to have 'faith'.

 

[Smegal]

I keep wondering what I'd think if I were on the jury... It's really hard because I already believed him guilty.

I try to put that aside and look at
*Scratches
*Blood in car
*Plant matter in hair

I think that's enough because those 3 facts are irrefutable IMO and they are damning IMO.

But then I wonder if, as a juror, and knowing nothing else, how would I see it?

Closing statements will be interesting!

Humdinger I do this all the time! No matter which way I look it at, the calling of 000 so early in conjunction with what GBC said the police that morning (Allison in a good frame of mind, everything business as usual the night before) just doesn't make sense to me.

The scratches, blood and plant matter really do seem irrefutable. Is there anyone on the planet who believes the scratches were caused by a razor?

 

[Couldbe]

Humdinger I do this all the time! No matter which way I look it at, the calling of 000 so early in conjunction with what GBC said the police that morning (Allison in a good frame of mind, everything business as usual the night before) just doesn't make sense to me.

The scratches, blood and plant matter really do seem irrefutable. Is there anyone on the planet who believes the scratches were caused by a razor?

..... at least not that razor that GBC supplied to the Police.

 

[squizzey1]

Humdinger I do this all the time! No matter which way I look it at, the calling of 000 so early in conjunction with what GBC said the police that morning (Allison in a good frame of mind, everything business as usual the night before) just doesn't make sense to me.

The scratches, blood and plant matter really do seem irrefutable. Is there anyone on the planet who believes the scratches were caused by a razor?

I think big G has probably convinced himself . compulsive liars do start to believe their own BS , but no one on this planet or any other

 

[squizzey1]

Humdinger I do this all the time! No matter which way I look it at, the calling of 000 so early in conjunction with what GBC said the police that morning (Allison in a good frame of mind, everything business as usual the night before) just doesn't make sense to me.

The scratches, blood and plant matter really do seem irrefutable. Is there anyone on the planet who believes the scratches were caused by a razor?

wonder what nbc clan REALLY thinks:banghead:

 

[Groundedgirl]

Ok, so I have been poking around social media to 'gauge' the feeling re the evidence presented thus far. I have to say many people are saying they wouldn't convict unless they hear some 'hard' evidence and so far everything can be explained. Sadly I think people are looking for 100% proof which doesn't actually happen - and I am hoping that the jury has enough reason to look at ALL the circumstantial evidence to see how damning it is and not want proof positive for a guilty verdict.

Consider, if he gets off:

He get full custody of the girls
He gets all the money
He will probably sell his story to the media for $$$$$$$$$
He will probably ensure the Dickies never see the girls again
He may sue to get the rights to the girls' donation funds

What do you think?

 

[Thinking]

Hi oli I've thought about this and I don't know how I'll cope knowing if he gets off he'll get Allison's insurance, the proceeds of the sneaky sale of Allison's house, the children and no doubt TMCH will run back into his wealthy arms.

I absolutely can't bear the thought. :banghead:

Tgy, you just jogged my memory and I don't think this was reported - on the day I saw TM on the stand she was talking about her final meeting with GBC (in the Valley) before his arrest. She cried as she talked about that meeting as she was confronting him about the other women. She also said tearily that GBC told her she had to fall in love with someone else as things weren't looking good for him, and she also said (sorry I'm getting to the interesting part now ) that she knew she had to, because no matter what happened with GBC from that time on, she could never be with him permanently as his children would never accept her, given the circumstances. Very true and perhaps good to know she has the insight to acknowledge this.

 

[spratsmum]

If Gerard and Allison hadn,t made a credit card payment for 2'.5 months they have been hounded day and night. While I think the way he did it was wrong I do think gbc was right trying to liquidate Allison,s share of the rental property, it was an asset they couldn't,t afford.

 

[Thinking]

Both the vacuum & the hose...

Text copied from Constable Kieron Ash's statement....

29. Whilst still standing outside and at the bottom of the stairs, Gerard's father Nigel BADEN-CLAY then came down stairs and went underneath the house and came back out with a vacuum cleaner and a green garden hose and began to load these items into the rear boot of the Holden statesman. The Gerard also came downstairs and told me that he had arranged for his father to give him a hand doing some odd real estate jobs today and needed the hose vaccuum cleaner.

30. Sergeant JACKSON then appeared at the top of the stairs and informed me that he did not want any one else to leave the premises and not to allow Nigel BADEN-CLAY to continue putting things in the Holden Statesman. Sergeant JACKSON then called out to Nigel BADEN-CLAY and told him that he didn't want any one to leave and not to move any more items from the house.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*

I'm sure the police would have checked out this friends property to see if it indeed needed vacuuming and didn't already have a hose there?

 

[squizzey1]

Ok, so I have been poking around social media to 'gauge' the feeling re the evidence presented thus far. I have to say many people are saying they wouldn't convict unless they hear some 'hard' evidence and so far everything can be explained. Sadly I think people are looking for 100% proof which doesn't actually happen - and I am hoping that the jury has enough reason to look at ALL the circumstantial evidence to see how damning it is and not want proof positive for a guilty verdict.

Consider, if he gets off:

He get full custody of the girls
He gets all the money
He will probably sell his story to the media for $$$$$$$$$
He will probably ensure the Dickies never see the girls again
He may sue to get the rights to the girls' donation funds

What do you think?

don't even think about it , surely not , I have also spoken to a magistrate , not in Brisbane, and he says no way will he get off just his opinion though:jail:

 

[FigTree]

Thanks to everyone for the links and the information regrading The Footy Show.
For me it narrows the time frame of the night down to less hours in which something was done to ABC.
:seeya:

 

[BJsleuth]

Ok, so I have been poking around social media to 'gauge' the feeling re the evidence presented thus far. I have to say many people are saying they wouldn't convict unless they hear some 'hard' evidence and so far everything can be explained. Sadly I think people are looking for 100% proof which doesn't actually happen - and I am hoping that the jury has enough reason to look at ALL the circumstantial evidence to see how damning it is and not want proof positive for a guilty verdict.

Consider, if he gets off:

He get full custody of the girls
He gets all the money
He will probably sell his story to the media for $$$$$$$$$
He will probably ensure the Dickies never see the girls again
He may sue to get the rights to the girls' donation funds

What do you think?

I agree. I've thought all along, there's still the possibility that someone else did it. Why is a question I can't answer.

 

[squizzey1]

I agree. I've thought all along, there's still the possibility that someone else did it. Why is a question I can't answer.

but if someone else did it wouldn't there be much more hue and cry from him and the clan , if it was me, and I didn't do it , I would be objecting and screaming from the rooftops and making a really big deal of it just me I guess

 

[LadyBird1]

If G was genuinely innocent, and if he had cut, gouged actually, himself with a Gillette Mark3 safety razor, and if G was desperately short of funds, and if G had a good lawyer, he could have sued the backside off Gillette and won a huge amount of compensation money. And Allison could still be alive.
Actually it beats my that Gillette hasn't said a word. Terrible advertising and all.

Not that I am favour of all this sue happy stuff. But I am doubtful if certain people care a fig how or where the money comes from. Just getting their hands on big money seems important.

 

[Smegal]

wonder what nbc clan REALLY thinks:banghead:

I'm sure they have convinced themselves it is all Allison's fault.

I've been going through the first thread and there was rather a chilling post that went on about how hard is for the spouse of a depressed person(I'm sure the poster said it's harder to be the spouse than the depressed person actually!) and basically that it's not their fault they have an affair etc etc. I will try and find it.