GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #2

[Champagne4lulu]

I'm reserving judgement.

I'm leaning more towards guilty because for me, why lie about the scratches? The bc family lynching allison initially made me think I had it all wrong. Perhaps he was innocent? Then to hear doctor after doctor refute it, made me VERY suss on them all. It made me think they were not only covering, but being very selective with the truth. What for me started as some genuine doubt, has ended up tipping me the other way.

That said, I still think there needs to be something more linking him to the scene. Mud on shoes, CCTV footage, witness sighting. Something that contradicts his going to sleep and waking at 6. Yes, there is his phone going back on charge, but I'm sure the defence could shoot that down.

I asked my other half who hasn't really taken much notice about this aside from my occasional briefings throughout the trial.

I asked him based on what what he knows, if he was on the jury, what would be his verdict? He said there's a lot of suss things in this, but he would need more to give a guilty verdict. People can act strangely in stressful situations and he just didn't think there has been quite enough to convince him.

Ask your partners, friends colleagues what they think? Guilty or not? In here there is SO much more info than the jury would be privvy to. And they probably don't analyse it as much as we do so would be interesting to see what the uninitiated make of all this.

Lastly, I'm interested to hear from those who have attended. What's the feeling there? How do the defence/prosecution act?

 

[Snails]

Thanks Marly, I found it! He called OW at 6.55 and 7:06 then at 7:11

I'm looking forward to the phone records being presented in court. Way too much "early panic" in my opinion. I mean, research the Daniel Morcombe case - I think it was a few hours before they went to the police. That's normal. This behaviour is completely abnormal IMO.

 

[LadyBird1]

At that time of the morning, it takes between 15-20 minutes to drive to the Century21 office in Taringa. Maybe 25 minutes if traffic is REALLY heavy.

But just getting back to those screams and who heard what and when...

I still have serious doubts about our MP friend and his claim to have heard the "blood-curdling screams" around 11pm or just before.

I know I've posted this before, but I just find it REALLY odd that the one person - the only person - who lives in that direction from the BC house and a good 1.5-2Km away, is the ONLY person who hears that. And it just happens to be:

1. Somebody who knows GBC via both property dealings and via the Chamber of Commerce

2. Somebody who has just knocked GBC back for a $300,000 loan

3. Somebody who then lends GBC a phone

I'm just not a great believer in coincidences......

Hi Doc W. Whilst you were busy at work yesterday, a lady witness Rhodes (from memory or a name similar) spoke of hearing screams, a thud, car wheels screeching (or words to that effect) . Then later, might have been a quarter to half an hour later, she again heard screams, thuds, and car tyres screeching.
It has been playing in my mind a bit today.
This is a completely different witness to Ms Apps and the spider account.

 

[Hadey]

I have asked about 20 people in the last couple of days and they all think he is GUILTY.

It was a pleasant surprise to me to see Dr Les Griffiths as he was my GP when I first moved to Brisbane. A really nice man and an excellent doctor.

 

[Thinking]

At that time of the morning, it takes between 15-20 minutes to drive to the Century21 office in Taringa. Maybe 25 minutes if traffic is REALLY heavy.

But just getting back to those screams and who heard what and when...

I still have serious doubts about our MP friend and his claim to have heard the "blood-curdling screams" around 11pm or just before.

I know I've posted this before, but I just find it REALLY odd that the one person - the only person - who lives in that direction from the BC house and a good 1.5-2Km away, is the ONLY person who hears that. And it just happens to be:

1. Somebody who knows GBC via both property dealings and via the Chamber of Commerce

2. Somebody who has just knocked GBC back for a $300,000 loan

3. Somebody who then lends GBC a phone

I'm just not a great believer in coincidences......

I agree it is very "coincidental" Doc - but then he did drop GBC in it with the comment about the roundabout camera didn't he. To make it look less coincidental maybe...?

 

[Snails]

I'm reserving judgement.

I'm leaning more towards guilty because for me, why lie about the scratches? The bc family lynching allison initially made me think I had it all wrong. Perhaps he was innocent? Then to hear doctor after doctor refute it, made me VERY suss on them all. It made me think they were not only covering, but being very selective with the truth. What for me started as some genuine doubt, has ended up tipping me the other way.

That said, I still think there needs to be something more linking him to the scene. Mud on shoes, CCTV footage, witness sighting. Something that contradicts his going to sleep and waking at 6. Yes, there is his phone going back on charge, but I'm sure the defence could shoot that down.

I asked my other half who hasn't really taken much notice about this aside from my occasional briefings throughout the trial.

I asked him based on what what he knows, if he was on the jury, what would be his verdict? He said there's a lot of suss things in this, but he would need more to give a guilty verdict. People can act strangely in stressful situations and he just didn't think there has been quite enough to convince him.

Ask your partners, friends colleagues what they think? Guilty or not? In here there is SO much more info than the jury would be privvy to. And they probably don't analyse it as much as we do so would be interesting to see what the uninitiated make of all this.

Lastly, I'm interested to hear from those who have attended. What's the feeling there? How do the defence/prosecution act?

I just asked my husband and he says "guilty" due to the scratches on his face, shoulders & neck, and his discussions with the police that morning. Very suspicious. He says it's obvious he's had a physical altercation with someone but just those things alone would sway him. My husband has only read what's in MSM so that's his opinion. He's an allied health professional and likes science/evidence based facts.

 

[DrWatson]

Hi Doc W. Whilst you were busy at work yesterday, a lady witness Rhodes (from memory or a name similar) spoke of hearing screams, a thud, car wheels screeching (or words to that effect) . Then later, might have been a quarter to half an hour later, she again heard screams, thuds, and car tyres screeching.
It has been playing in my mind a bit today.
This is a completely different witness to Ms Apps and the spider account.

Thanks for that info, Ladybird - I'd missed that. So we have yet more confusing noises in the night.....:banghead:

 

[Mumma Bear]

I'd say guilty....he was cruel and mean but something bothers me....did he have the guts to actually do it ?
He always seemed to be cowardly in the way he dominated and took advantage of the weak but he was a bit of a wuss, blubbering et al.
Did he try and mess up and get dad/sister to finish it off ? (with a thousand explanations to them blaming Allison etc)
I think they were ALL in on it !

I don't think he had the guts to strangle her in a fight. Suffocating though - yes.

It's making more sense to me since the first batch of screams were pretty much discounted. The later scream (pretty sure this was just Flegg's report?) is quite doubtful due to the distance - surely if the later scream were close to the BC home there would have been other audio witnesses.

Suffocation is much more congruent with premeditation too. And aligns with one of the counsellor's/psych's reports that Allison was non-confrontational. Also with one daughter who said they don't fight, only for a few seconds if they do (yes I know, could be coached there). Suffocation could be why the girls didn't wake. It explains the unbroken hyoid bone (i.e. prob not strangulation).

It could also explain why GBC didn't clean up the blood in the car. He suffocates Allison and because she is on her back, a little blood pools inside her nose. He checks his evil work, doesn't see any blood. In all the tarp/car/ kholo creek runaround he can't bear to look at her face again, so he doesn't realise in the dark that some blood (and the smoking gun hair!) has trickled onto the door in transit.

It also makes sense of his weird vagueness with the 'we/I went to bed'. He knows the bed is the crime scene. Being so bad at lying, he fluffs the discussion with police/000 about whether she even was at the crime scene or not.

All in my current opinion. Subject to change with no notification :twocents:

 

[Thinking]

Hi Doc W. Whilst you were busy at work yesterday, a lady witness Rhodes (from memory or a name similar) spoke of hearing screams, a thud, car wheels screeching (or words to that effect) . Then later, might have been a quarter to half an hour later, she again heard screams, thuds, and car tyres screeching.
It has been playing in my mind a bit today.
This is a completely different witness to Ms Apps and the spider account.

Who was this Ladybird - I must have missed it? Was she the second late witness yesterday?

 

[Tangled_Web]

At that time of the morning, it takes between 15-20 minutes to drive to the Century21 office in Taringa. Maybe 25 minutes if traffic is REALLY heavy.

But just getting back to those screams and who heard what and when...

I still have serious doubts about our MP friend and his claim to have heard the "blood-curdling screams" around 11pm or just before.

I know I've posted this before, but I just find it REALLY odd that the one person - the only person - who lives in that direction from the BC house and a good 1.5-2Km away, is the ONLY person who hears that. And it just happens to be:

1. Somebody who knows GBC via both property dealings and via the Chamber of Commerce

2. Somebody who has just knocked GBC back for a $300,000 loan

3. Somebody who then lends GBC a phone

I'm just not a great believer in coincidences......

Though he did testify on the witness stand at the committal hearing that he heard this "blood curdling" and "disturbing" scream. And MPs are never careless with the truth --- are they??

 

[Cattail]

At that time of the morning, it takes between 15-20 minutes to drive to the Century21 office in Taringa. Maybe 25 minutes if traffic is REALLY heavy.

But just getting back to those screams and who heard what and when...

I still have serious doubts about our MP friend and his claim to have heard the "blood-curdling screams" around 11pm or just before.

I know I've posted this before, but I just find it REALLY odd that the one person - the only person - who lives in that direction from the BC house and a good 1.5-2Km away, is the ONLY person who hears that. And it just happens to be:

1. Somebody who knows GBC via both property dealings and via the Chamber of Commerce

2. Somebody who has just knocked GBC back for a $300,000 loan

3. Somebody who then lends GBC a phone

I'm just not a great believer in coincidences......

Sue Heath said that he mentioned this scream during a phone call she had with him.

So if he didn't hear a scream that would suggest she is also lying

 

[Thinking]

I don't think he had the guts to strangle her in a fight. Suffocating though - yes.

It's making more sense to me since the first batch of screams were pretty much discounted. The later scream (pretty sure this was just Flegg's report?) is quite doubtful due to the distance - surely if the later scream were close to the BC home there would have been other audio witnesses.

Suffocation is much more congruent with premeditation too. And aligns with one of the counsellor's/psych's reports that Allison was non-confrontational. Also with one daughter who said they don't fight, only for a few seconds if they do (yes I know, could be coached there). Suffocation could be why the girls didn't wake. It explains the unbroken hyoid bone (i.e. prob not strangulation).

It could also explain why GBC didn't clean up the blood in the car. He suffocates Allison and because she is on her back, a little blood pools inside her nose. He checks his evil work, doesn't see any blood. In all the tarp/car/ kholo creek runaround he can't bear to look at her face again, so he doesn't realise in the dark that some blood (and the smoking gun hair!) has trickled onto the door in transit.

It also makes sense of his weird vagueness with the 'we/I went to bed'. He knows the bed is the crime scene. Being so bad at lying, he fluffs the discussion with police/000 about whether she even was at the crime scene or not.

All in my current opinion. Subject to change with no notification :twocents:

This makes sense to me. Is there any way a pillow or the like could be tested for being used as a means for suffocation I wonder?

 

[Cattail]

I don't think she heard the scream.

No she said she didn't. But the fact that she said that he said oh I heard a scream during a phone call on the night of the 19th means

1. He heard a scream whether related to ABC or not. Or
2. He didn't hear a scream but now says he did and she lies to support this.

 

[Hillsdon]

At that time of the morning, it takes between 15-20 minutes to drive to the Century21 office in Taringa. Maybe 25 minutes if traffic is REALLY heavy.

But just getting back to those screams and who heard what and when...

I still have serious doubts about our MP friend and his claim to have heard the "blood-curdling screams" around 11pm or just before.

I know I've posted this before, but I just find it REALLY odd that the one person - the only person - who lives in that direction from the BC house and a good 1.5-2Km away, is the ONLY person who hears that. And it just happens to be:

1. Somebody who knows GBC via both property dealings and via the Chamber of Commerce

2. Somebody who has just knocked GBC back for a $300,000 loan

3. Somebody who then lends GBC a phone

I'm just not a great believer in coincidences......

I am with you, not pinning my hopes on the claims of hearing screams. So easy to disprove. Bring on the roundabout CCTV, BC car movement...

 

[BJsleuth]

OK, now I get it. 3 seconds call to Kate R wouldn't have been long enough to establish ABC was to meet her at the office at 8am would it? GBC told the police he didn't know that, Allison hadn't told him when they discussed it the night before, she'd just said she was leaving home at 7am. They asked what time he called Kate, he said "Ten past ni-, seven"

No record that GBC called Kate after that. Did Kate call GBC to enquire where ABC was?

 

[itchybum]

I don't think he had the guts to strangle her in a fight. Suffocating though - yes.

It's making more sense to me since the first batch of screams were pretty much discounted. The later scream (pretty sure this was just Flegg's report?) is quite doubtful due to the distance - surely if the later scream were close to the BC home there would have been other audio witnesses.

Suffocation is much more congruent with premeditation too. And aligns with one of the counsellor's/psych's reports that Allison was non-confrontational. Also with one daughter who said they don't fight, only for a few seconds if they do (yes I know, could be coached there). Suffocation could be why the girls didn't wake. It explains the unbroken hyoid bone (i.e. prob not strangulation).

It could also explain why GBC didn't clean up the blood in the car. He suffocates Allison and because she is on her back, a little blood pools inside her nose. He checks his evil work, doesn't see any blood. In all the tarp/car/ kholo creek runaround he can't bear to look at her face again, so he doesn't realise in the dark that some blood (and the smoking gun hair!) has trickled onto the door in transit.

It also makes sense of his weird vagueness with the 'we/I went to bed'. He knows the bed is the crime scene. Being so bad at lying, he fluffs the discussion with police/000 about whether she even was at the crime scene or not.

All in my current opinion. Subject to change with no notification :twocents:

I'm favouring the idea of suffocation because of the lack of any obvious trauma - something bothers me though - if he did this on the couch/in bed, then must he have changed her clothes after the deed ? - unless she wears her "walking clothes" on an evening/in bed... no blood in bed or on the couch, but the blood in the car could have occurred as the body was being moved.

 

[Snails]

I just asked my husband and he says "guilty" due to the scratches on his face, shoulders & neck, and his discussions with the police that morning. Very suspicious. He says it's obvious he's had a physical altercation with someone but just those things alone would sway him. My husband has only read what's in MSM so that's his opinion. He's an allied health professional and likes science/evidence based facts.

Sorry to quote myself but now my husband and I have had an in-depth discussion (me interviewing). He says if he was on the jury the affair by itself would not sway him. The dire financial situation/life insurance policy etc and his bodily injuries would definitely make him think that Gerred was involved in Allison's death. Whether Gerred would be covering for some other parties etc who knows. Just his opinion as he isn't following websleuths and he's only going on what he's read in MSM. PS - I'm sure he thinks I'm obsessed about this case (I secretly am). I've told him a lot just now (bail documents etc) that he wasn't aware of and he was gobsmacked.

 

[kiwijayne]

No she said she didn't. But the fact that she said that he said oh I heard a scream during a phone call on the night of the 19th means

1. He heard a scream whether related to ABC or not. Or
2. He didn't hear a scream but now says he did and she lies to support this.

I think he said he heard a scream(whether he did or not) and it is not related to Sue as she said she didn't hear it.

 

[BJsleuth]

Who was this Ladybird - I must have missed it? Was she the second late witness yesterday?

Anne Marie Rhodes.

Another Brookfield resident, Anne Marie Rhodes, said she heard an argument followed by a woman’s scream at 10pm. Roughly 30 minutes later she said she heard a “loud, dull thud” and screeching tyres. Ms Rhodes said the fighting came from the direction of Brookfield Rd, near the day care centre. “I just heard an argument, I couldn’t make out what was being said,” she said. The thud she heard later sounded like “a sack of horse feed falling on to concrete” and the screeching tyres made her think a car had run off the road, she said.

In cross-examination by barrister Michael Byrne QC, for Baden-Clay, she agreed she gave two statements to police, one on May 30 and the second on June 2, 2012. She agreed she did not go to police to tell them what she had heard until she could check the date with her husband.
http://m.couriermail.com.au/news/qu...son-went-missing/story-fnihsrf2-1226952516127

 

[BJsleuth]

Sorry to quote myself but now my husband and I have had an in-depth discussion (me interviewing). He says if he was on the jury the affair by itself would not sway him. The dire financial situation/life insurance policy etc and his bodily injuries would definitely make him think that Gerred was involved in Allison's death. Whether Gerred would be covering for some other parties etc who knows. Just his opinion as he isn't following websleuths and he's only going on what he's read in MSM. PS - I'm sure he thinks I'm obsessed about this case (I secretly am). I've told him a lot just now (bail documents etc) that he wasn't aware of and he was gobsmacked.

Mine says guilty but insufficient evidence to convict.