The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 26th June - Trial Day 11, Week 3

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To take a completely (I hope) unbiased view of where we are at the moment:

- Allison went missing - no witnesses.

- Screams, noises, thuds, etc were heard - but could have been anything or anyone, from anywhere.

- Allison was found dead 11 days later at Kholo Creek - no cause of death able to be determined. However, the levels of sertraline ("Zoloft") in the blood and tissue samples taken from her liver (as no peripheral blood was able to be sampled due to decomposition) were within normal expectations that one would find with therapeutic doses. This takes into account the normal concentration by the liver, plus the post-mortem redistribution that occurs.

- GBC reports Allison missing at a very early stage, when most would just be concerned that she was a bit late back from her alleged normal walk.

- When police arrive, he has 3 large scratches on his face. And from a medical point of view (mine as well as the expert witnesses) these were NOT caused by a razor (blunt razors of that type actually are LESS likely to cut or knock the tops of spots) but were most likely to have been caused by fingernails or claws of some type.

- Blood stains in the back of the Captiva (Allison's car) were DNA matched to Allison's DNA. There was also a hair stuck into the blood.

- He and Olivia have told the court that Allison gave up driving - yet they have two cars, she did the school runs, and drove herself to the hairdresser.

- He told the court that Allison would have his phone from when he got home to the next morning - yet there are numerous calls and texts sent and received during evening hours on that phone.

- GBC has admitted having several affairs outside his marriage, including one long term one with Toni McHugh. He has also told the court that he didn't consider that to be a relationship. He also sent an email telling her he loved her and that he would be single by July 1st 2012.

- There was an empty Zoloft packet in Allison's car - which was prescribed some time earlier. Even if she had swallowed the whole packet, she would not have died. And of course, would not have been able to walk to Kholo Creek due to being light-headed and drowsy.

- The question that I can't recall being asked yet is - WHY Kholo Creek? It is a long way from home to there, and there are other creeks and bridges much closer to their home. Moggill Creek is within 5 minutes walk, with several access points. Not to mention numerous dams - all the ones being searched by helicopters and divers at the time, including ours, which are plenty deep enough to go and drown yourself in after swallowing a packet of Zoloft.

- Allison's head was covered by her jumper, but she had 6 species of leaves entangled in her hair, all of which can be found behind the carport at the BC house. To find the exact same combination/permutation of species elsewhere would be a very low chance. Only two of those species could be found at Kholo Creek. Despite the defence's allegations that they could have washed down on the tidal flow.

And I'm not a prosecuting lawyer - but I'm sure there are many inconsistencies that need to be asked about.
 
I'm sorry this happened to your sister.

Respectfully however I think you have misinterpreted my comments.


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Yes Cattail, in my haste I was only commenting on a part of your post but didn't clarify I'm sorry!

I completely agree with your comments on depression, it is no different to be debilitated by a broken leg as you said. I couldn't agree more infact. As a sufferer myself and of course having lived it with my sister.

I was, as I have been all along, outraged at the way GBC has used Allison's depression for his personal gain, the way he denigrates her and makes her sound 'faulty' (for want of a better word) to make himself sound and feel better in regards to his self.

I do love your posts and despite my poor response I do agree with your views on depression. I hope I didn't offend.

Hugs xo
 
I understand, I've had those dark days too. :hug:

and I agree, he wants the 'husband and father' of the year award, and he would never have hurt Allison.
He sounds like a desperate shyster to me and they can be capable of anything when pushed into a corner. jmo

Oh that's right in his mind he wasn't having an affair so that wouldn't hurt Allison.

What a crock!
 
Sorry for not linking properly. The section on Millon's subtypes of Narcissism was from Wikipedia. Millon's subtypes are not recognised by the DSM.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder"]Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Unprincipled narcissist - Including antisocial features. A charlatan who is a fraudulent, exploitative, deceptive, and unscrupulous individual Deficient conscience; unscrupulous, amoral, disloyal, fraudulent, deceptive, arrogant, exploitive; a con man and charlatan; dominating, contemptuous, vindictive.

Amorous narcissist - Including histrionic features. The Don Juan or Casanova of our times who is erotic, exhibitionist Sexually seductive, enticing, beguiling, tantalizing; glib and clever; disinclines real intimacy; indulges hedonistic desires; bewitches and inveigles others; pathological lying and swindling.

Compensatory narcissist - Including negativistic and avoidant features Seeks to counteract or cancel out deep feelings of inferiority and lack of self-esteem; offsets deficits by creating illusions of being superior, exceptional, admirable, noteworthy; self-worth results from self-enhancement.

Elitist narcissist - Variant of “pure” pattern. Corresponds to Wilhelm Reich's "phallic narcissistic" personality type Feels privileged and empowered by virtue of special childhood status and pseudo achievements; entitled façade bears little relation to reality; seeks favored and good life; is upwardly mobile; cultivates special status and advantages by association.

Fanatic narcissist - Including paranoid features An individual whose self-esteem was severely arrested during childhood, who usually displays major paranoid tendencies, and who holds on to an illusion of omnipotence. These people are fighting delusions of insignificance and lost value, and trying to re-establish their self-esteem through grandiose fantasies and self-reinforcement. When unable to gain recognition or support from others, they take on the role of a heroic or worshipped person with a grandiose mission.
 
Yes Cattail, in my haste I was only commenting on a part of your post but didn't clarify I'm sorry!

I completely agree with your comments on depression, it is no different to be debilitated by a broken leg as you said. I couldn't agree more infact. As a sufferer myself and of course having lived it with my sister.

I was, as I have been all along, outraged at the way GBC has used Allison's depression for his personal gain, the way he denigrates her and makes her sound 'faulty' (for want of a better word) to make himself sound and feel better in regards to his self.

I do love your posts and despite my poor response I do agree with your views on depression. I hope I didn't offend.

Hugs xo


It would take much more than that to offend me ;)

I am a bit protective of people with depression as it has hit my eldest son extremely hard.

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For F'sSake - serotonin syndrome is a joke for this case! I am amazed Allison wasn't on something stronger considering the crap she got from every direction in her life. She was freaking amazing in my opinion!!!!

Her husband, her inlaws, her lovely 'loyal' sister-in-law were all ready to throw her away and cast her off into the jaws of uselessness due to her depression. Yet somehow Allison with just the help of Zoloft managed t hold stuff together. I AM SOOOOOOO in AWE of her.

Serotonin syndrome - if anyone had a history of being successfully treated by Zoloft then they are going to have the patience of believing in the drug to run its course. Of course every time you take a drug you are up for new situations but Allison was optimistic and knew she had the success of getting over depression with this drug - why would she overdose? Not freaking likely JMHO
 
To take a completely (I hope) unbiased view of where we are at the moment:
- The question that I can't recall being asked yet is - WHY Kholo Creek? It is a long way from home to there, and there are other creeks and bridges much closer to their home. Moggill Creek is within 5 minutes walk, with several access points.

All I have been able to make of the significance of the place, Doc, is that it is on the way back to Ipswich, from where Al came. It makes a fraction of sense, crazy sense. Tautological.
 
Is there a Forensic Psychiatrist coming up for the defence? Will he admit that there is something really wrong with Gerard? Is allowing him to ramble being used to support this? If he was my brother I would rather see him in a secure ward than Arthur Gorrie! This is no time for pride. There is something really wrong with the bloke.

Don't think you'd have any objection from the guys at AG.

They picked the wrong year to give up smoking...
 
A reminder to all....

It's fine if someone disagrees...makes it interesting! Please treat any opposing views respectfully.

Also...as per WS rules....please post only 10% of articles & you must include relevant link.
 
I fixed it for you.


Oh no - she swam in Kholo for exercise and got the cats claw creeper in her hair. Because she knew GBC was going to put the hot rollers on for her the next morning!:tantrum:
 
All I have been able to make of the significance of the place, Doc, is that it is on the way back to Ipswich, from where Al came. It makes a fraction of sense, crazy sense. Tautological.

Point taken, Possum.

And it's also very close to the Tyamolum Scout camp - a place that is familiar to both of them. But that wouldn't really be a reason to think "OK - I'm going to top myself. I'll just swallow this packet of pills, then I might walk to the scout camp and jump into Kholo Creek." She would have had to walk over the bridge across Moggill Creek in the middle of Brookfield at the beginning of her walk.....
 
He sold them after Sep 11 ... 2001 - nearly 13 yrs ago ... How is any of this relevant ???

omg yes it's 13 not 3 (i tripped on the "11")

Apart from the endless me-me-me-ness (sick of typing the word narc...) maybe there was a bit of strategy there to try to drag out today's story so the school bell would ring long before he got up to recent events and he'd have the weekend to think about it - ?
 
To take a completely (I hope) unbiased view of where we are at the moment:


- The question that I can't recall being asked yet is - WHY Kholo Creek? It is a long way from home to there, and there are other creeks and bridges much closer to their home. Moggill Creek is within 5 minutes walk, with several access points. Not to mention numerous dams - all the ones being searched by helicopters and divers at the time, including ours, which are plenty deep enough to go and drown yourself in after swallowing a packet of Zoloft.

I would say because between 10pm and 2am that road would be very very quiet and rare to have people drive along it at that time.
 
omg yes it's 13 not 3 (i tripped on the "11")

Apart from the endless me-me-me-ness (sick of typing the word narc...) maybe there was a bit of strategy there to try to drag out today's story so the school bell would ring long before he got up to recent events and he'd have the weekend to think about it - ?

It is called a filibuster.
 
It is called a filibuster.


indeed it is PH - we Ozzies need to take a bit of a look at the ways of the American Judicial system - as if the Good Wife was a bit of furfy - - there is a lot to learn!
 
It would take much more than that to offend me ;)

I am a bit protective of people with depression as it has hit my eldest son extremely hard.

*advertiser censored*



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I'm so sorry to hear that :( I do hope that he and yourself have a wonderful support network to help you navigate the way!

My master 7 is on the spectrum and has anxiety issues (which are currently well managed, but haven't always been) and I've spent many a day / night fearing for his future and hoping he doesn't face battles with depression Down the track.

After the birth if him (my first) a friend wrote in a card about welcoming me to the club of wearing my heart on the outside, it took me a few years to truly get it...

Oh it's been an emotional day. So many of us are mums, just like Allison and Priscilla, my heart goes out to any mums that are facing troubles or uncertain futures! And that does include TM because she's a mum too, she might have made poor choices (very very poor) but her sons deserve the best too and this will be taking it's toll on them in many ways.

Group hug to all our WS'ers!
 
Hi all! Just home from hospital and in mega pain so won't be able to catch up tonight- can anyone give me a brief update on what's happened today??? Suspense is killing me!!!! Pretty please?? :)
 
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