GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[DrWatson]

Dr Watson, correct me if i'm wrong but it would be noted in autopsy report if Allison was wearing a hairband, (or other hair accessory) wouldn't it?

Sorry for the delay in answering BJ - yes, it would have been well documented, as all her other clothes and jewellery were. There was no hairband.

 

[BJsleuth]

Something that's always niggled at me and until now have not piped up and had my say... As someone who goes to the hairdresser every six weeks, and has a cut and colour, I've never worried about how it might look the next day. I wash and blow dry my hair every day.as I have pretty straight hair I can't stand having unwashed hair. Having said that, I have friends that will stretch out a blow dry for five days. But I just don't get it. I like freshly washed, nice smelling hair. My point is that I think there is too much focus on the hairdresser visit and what Allison would do with it afterwards. Especially as the photos show, the hot rollers are in the bathroom. I don't think it make any difference whether that stopped Allison from going for a walk, I just think she didn't go cause it was either nighttime or she didn't go in the morning cause she had to get ready for the conference. I think she didn't go because someone had already taken her to Kholo Creek. Ok, rant over, please be gentle with your responses!

*Puts hand up* another who washes hair every day.

 

[Neuromancer]

Just found interesting link - notes made by someone who was in the court today:
http://aussiecriminals.com.au/2014/...l-be-selling-from-now-on-is-about-6-x-8-feet/
You can click on each photo to enlarge for reading.
Starts with the lawyer then GBC

Some really interesting observations too - voices, facial expressions, emotional responses, etc - that you don't get in MSM

She's been writing up articles about the court experience too but she's just posted the notes for today so far, since there's so much to get through.

(I hope this is ok Marly

 

[BJsleuth]

Sorry for the delay in answering BJ - yes, it would have been well documented, as all her other clothes and jewellery were. There was no hairband.

Thanks Doc. No need to apologise, I knew you'd answer when you were available

 

[AAAA]

I think we have to keep in mind GBC gave four different "walk" versions.

There was no walk....she was murdered at or about 19th April.

That's my point Marly, I don't think she went for a walk. I think she was already at Kholo Creek. I just think too much has been made of the hairdo.

 

[Radster]

First thought is 'Allison wouldn't leave the girls', followed immediately by... If I were in her shoes and I desperately wanted to suicide, I'd want my kids with my parents not my lying, cheating hubby, so a set up is clever! But then... I can't see a sensible intelligent woman putting her kids through that. To lose both parents? The heartache that those girls are undoubtedly going through? As a mother, I'll choose misery to see my young kids grow up healthy and happy and pretend to the enth degree for the sake of my littlen's to be able to keep them safe and secure. Having said that, I'm not in an abusive relationship with a possible NPD partner...

Interesting, but IMO improbable.

Agree. Everything within me says the same. As a mother, I would NEVER leave my children, and I have actually been at the bottom of a traumatic pit where that was a possibility. I don't believe Allison would have planned this, but a good friend - well connected to the situation - raised the possibility tonight and so I floated it, knowing full well that WS would rain down its storm of rebuttal. Thing is, this case doesn't shut well no matter how you choose to close it. And so that makes everything possible.

 

[wewillgetyou]

Just a quick summation of today. In point form again because it's been a long day and my bed is calling. Hope I've remembered accurately - maybe Liaden can make any corrections as required.

Thanks Liaden for the great company today and many laughs. ( surprisingly not at BC expense )

I'm sure half of Brisbane heard my gasp when they said he would take the stand. It was a time of nervous excitement. That was short lived as Mr Byrne took forever to 'set the scene'.

We watched a time lapse video that the defence had made of the kholo creek spot where Alison was found. This was made between the 15th and 22june this year. Photos taken at 3 minute intervals to show the way the tides fluctuate and how debris is moved up and down the creek.
I'm not sure how much importance this should be given as who knows if it was even filmed under similar condition to April 2012 ( tides etc )
The lighting was also terrible and hard to see what was in the movie. I can only hope the jury could see it clearer than we could.

The defence will have a witness to speak about Serotonin syndrome.
They will also call a toxicologist.

I had to leave early and that was a blessing because I felt like I had been teleported to a Baden-Clay slide night minus the slides ! Oh boy did Gerard waffle on. I thought I might go to sleep - seriously ! Imagine we've waited all this time and he is just so boring to listen to. Gotta give it to him though he turned on the tears much earlier than I expected

Will report tomorrow if I recall anything extra.

 

[DrWatson]

I have been here almost from the start, sometimes with vigour and sometimes as a very occasional interloper. I have wrestled with my position many times. I was referred here by a former friend of GBC's. Like many people on here (I imagine), I have a close connection to this case and I do intend to reveal my own personal connection when this is all said and done. In the meantime, thanks very much to all the sleuthers, all the contributors, pundits, amateurs, professionals, court tweeters and those who just feel very, very deeply for the children left behind by a loving mother.

Someone very interested in this case posed something to me tonight that I had never previously considered and initially found repugnant. But I will leave it with you ...

What if GBC was set up by Allison? She is a very intelligent woman, a devoted wife and mother, betrayed horribly by her husband. Those journal entries - all written in the same pen. What if she intended to take her own life but not without taking down her husband? I know it's outlandish but so is everything about this case. Nothing is out of the realms of possibility.

Nuts, right? Or not.

An original thought, Radster - but not realistic, I think. How did she get to Kholo Creek? She would not have walked there. She just HAD to have been taken there alive or already dead, in a vehicle of some type. And once again - why there?

And how did she actually commit suicide and die? It wasn't an overdose (despite what the defence is likely to imply). And it wasn't drowning. And it wasn't the fall from the bridge. There was no gun.

Too many improbables, methinks.

 

[Stick]

Great post - really nice summary Stick.

I agree with your scenario, but one point I'd question is the drop off the bridge because
(a) no fractures
(b) found under bridge, not next to it
(c) much more dangerous to park on the bridge than off to the side before the bridge.

If you can find a photo of where she was found, you can see it's possible to walk down the side of the bridge (dry not muddy), then roll her over a ledge down a ~6 ft (2m) drop to the mud below where her body was found.

Thanks Neuro. I have not been privy to information on the exact location of her body - I must delve further.

What you are describing appears on the surface to indicate a strategy to get her body into the creek, without leaving footprints, or to position it away from visibility from the road or air.

Certainly casts greater doubt on a "jump from bridge" suicide theory, hence the reason GBC's defence is hinging upon the thin notion of an OD.

 

[KG1]

I have been here almost from the start, sometimes with vigour and sometimes as a very occasional interloper. I have wrestled with my position many times. I was referred here by a former friend of GBC's. Like many people on here (I imagine), I have a close connection to this case and I do intend to reveal my own personal connection when this is all said and done. In the meantime, thanks very much to all the sleuthers, all the contributors, pundits, amateurs, professionals, court tweeters and those who just feel very, very deeply for the children left behind by a loving mother.

Someone very interested in this case posed something to me tonight that I had never previously considered and initially found repugnant. But I will leave it with you ...

What if GBC was set up by Allison? She is a very intelligent woman, a devoted wife and mother, betrayed horribly by her husband. Those journal entries - all written in the same pen. What if she intended to take her own life but not without taking down her husband? I know it's outlandish but so is everything about this case. Nothing is out of the realms of possibility.

Nuts, right? Or not.

Impossible proposition in my view. She loved her children too much to even envisage such a thing. Was not in the nature of Allison ever!

 

[AAAA]

I'm planning on going to court on Monday. Are there any others that are going? <modsnip>

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I have been here almost from the start, sometimes with vigour and sometimes as a very occasional interloper. I have wrestled with my position many times. I was referred here by a former friend of GBC's. Like many people on here (I imagine), I have a close connection to this case and I do intend to reveal my own personal connection when this is all said and done. In the meantime, thanks very much to all the sleuthers, all the contributors, pundits, amateurs, professionals, court tweeters and those who just feel very, very deeply for the children left behind by a loving mother.

Someone very interested in this case posed something to me tonight that I had never previously considered and initially found repugnant. But I will leave it with you ...

What if GBC was set up by Allison? She is a very intelligent woman, a devoted wife and mother, betrayed horribly by her husband. Those journal entries - all written in the same pen. What if she intended to take her own life but not without taking down her husband? I know it's outlandish but so is everything about this case. Nothing is out of the realms of possibility.

Nuts, right? Or not.

Anything is possible I suppose but I believe after all I've read and heard, Allison would never leave her daughters and she didn't have a conniving or nasty bone in her body.

She was not clinically depressed, noted by a psychiatrist, doctor and friends, in her diary, Allison chided herself for spending so much time on her girls to the detriment of her marriage. Only GBC could make her feel like a failure, he projected his failure onto her.

I know mothers commit suicide, I just don't believe Allison did. IMO, Allison had more to live for than ever, she was teaching her daughters to be resilient as she was herself.

The only loser in the Baden-Clay household was GBC. His grandiose ambitions were going nowhere, and here he is on the stand making a fool of himself. Poor Allison.

I also believe she would never do something so sinister as to make anyone suffer for her, yet GBC has done nothing but make others suffer because of him.

:twocents:

 

[Smegal]

I have been here almost from the start, sometimes with vigour and sometimes as a very occasional interloper. I have wrestled with my position many times. I was referred here by a former friend of GBC's. Like many people on here (I imagine), I have a close connection to this case and I do intend to reveal my own personal connection when this is all said and done. In the meantime, thanks very much to all the sleuthers, all the contributors, pundits, amateurs, professionals, court tweeters and those who just feel very, very deeply for the children left behind by a loving mother.

Someone very interested in this case posed something to me tonight that I had never previously considered and initially found repugnant. But I will leave it with you ...

What if GBC was set up by Allison? She is a very intelligent woman, a devoted wife and mother, betrayed horribly by her husband. Those journal entries - all written in the same pen. What if she intended to take her own life but not without taking down her husband? I know it's outlandish but so is everything about this case. Nothing is out of the realms of possibility.

Nuts, right? Or not.

Interesting/sickening idea, but I do not think Allison would leave her children. And although I don't know her, from everything I've read I cannot imagine her doing such a think.

Sounds like the person who suggested the idea has read 'Gone Girl'.

 

[Radster]

An original thought, Radster - but not realistic, I think. How did she get to Kholo Creek? She would not have walked there. She just HAD to have been taken there alive or already dead, in a vehicle of some type. And once again - why there?

And how did she actually commit suicide and die? It wasn't an overdose (despite what the defence is likely to imply). And it wasn't drowning. And it wasn't the fall from the bridge. There was no gun.

Too many improbables, methinks.

13km is not too far to walk, especially if you're pissed off and on a mission and you know where you're headed. You've got all night - 13km is nothing. And if you've taken the pills (and I say this because a good family friend did this last year in north Qld, took the pills and crawled under a bridge to die), then it's only a matter of time. Sleep time.

I realise I am playing the worst devil's advocate ever here. I realise this flies in the face of most sentiments previously expressed, including my own. BBut I also feel that if this is a true crime-busting forum, we must discount all possibilities.

 

[Radster]

Interesting/sickening idea, but I do not think Allison would leave her children. And although I don't know her, from everything I've read I cannot imagine her doing such a think.

Sounds like the person who suggested the idea has read 'Gone Girl'.

Haha! I have actually read that book. It was crap. Completely implausible and none of the characters rang true.

 

[HoolyDooly]

Allison was discussed like she was a burden when her depression was severe. What about 'through sickness and in health, for richer or poorer, thru thick and thin...' It sounded to me like he expected her to be an asset to him. As he does seem to be an Egoist... jmo
( I am waiting for him to blame little Scraps next...he tripped her up in the carport....etc)

Just want justice in the end. He has behaved despicably, but is he a murderer of his girls mother? Yes, I feel sure the evidence is there. But I am not on the jury.

 

[DrWatson]

13km is not too far to walk, especially if you're pissed off and on a mission and you know where you're headed. You've got all night - 13km is nothing. And if you've taken the pills (and I say this because a good family friend did this last year in north Qld, took the pills and crawled under a bridge to die), then it's only a matter of time. Sleep time.

I realise I am playing the worst devil's advocate ever here. I realise this flies in the face of most sentiments previously expressed, including my own. BBut I also feel that if this is a true crime-busting forum, we must discount all possibilities.

Point taken - it's about a 3-hour brisk walk from the BC house to Kholo. And pretty hilly, as you would know. (Ever tried walking up Barnes Hill past Anstead?)

And I guess we would have to count the possibility that Allison COULD have walked it.

But even a whole pack of Zoloft (and that pack that was in her car was already a few days old) wouldn't kill her. Also, it would have made her ability to walk that far highly unlikely if she'd taken them before setting out. She would have been getting very drowsy and light-headed.

And if she took a pack with her to take them when she got there - where was that pack?

And again I ask - why there? If she was going to do that, why not just crawl under the bridge right in the middle of Brookfield? Or into one of the dams?

So - possible, but highly improbable, IMHO.

:blushing:

 

[Thinking]

But only had x amount of hours to dispose of the body??

And didn't want to be caught on traffic cameras?

 

[Myserty64]

Perhaps someone has suggested this but I believe Allison died of fright.
I have never looked into the eyes of a killer but...................!

I want the prosecution to be a lot more aggressive with their cross examination than they were presenting their case.

 

[HoolyDooly]

Anything is possible I suppose but I believe after all I've read and heard, Allison would never leave her daughters and she didn't have a conniving or nasty bone in her body.

She was not clinically depressed, noted by a psychiatrist, doctor and friends, in her diary, Allison chided herself for spending so much time on her girls to the detriment of her marriage. Only GBC could make her feel like a failure, he projected his failure onto her.

I know mothers commit suicide, I just don't believe Allison did. IMO, Allison had more to live for than ever, she was teaching her daughters to be resilient as she was herself.

The only loser in the Baden-Clay household was GBC. His grandiose ambitions were going nowhere, and here he is on the stand making a fool of himself. Poor Allison.

I also believe she would never do something so sinister as to make anyone suffer for her, yet GBC has done nothing but make others suffer because of him.

:twocents:

Allison comes across to me as very loyal and true, and would Never leave her children. She gave her best efforts always and given what she had to put up with, did cope with true grit and grace...anyway that is how I see her.