GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[sosocurious]

Mr Byrne said Baden Clay was working on Cheesemans house renovations at Pullenvale that day and rushed home for Parent Teacher interviews that night.
He said Baden Clay's mother picked the children up from school and he joined them later for a BBQ.
So what time at night were these Parent Teacher interviews?

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...dering-wife-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-12

Sorry to quote myself - I have just tried to re read this article but it is no longer available.

I find it odd that not one of the girls said they had a BBQ for dinner, neither did NBC for that matter.

If there were parent teacher interviews for the 3 girls that night what time were they?

Did Allison attend the interviews with GBC?

How late in the evening are parent teacher interviews held, been far to many years since I have attended one to know.

 

[alioop]

Something still banging around disturbingly in the back of my mind, is the bit I read in earlier evidence, that Allison had called the insurance company in the week before her death in an attempt to lower her life insurance coverage. Does anyone remember this?

Did that prompt him to act asap? Did she get a feeling he might be plotting this? If so.... *shudder*

Yes that's right. Allison and GBC had realised that Allison had life insurance included in her superannuation so she was insured for more than they realised. It was a way to save them money they couldn't afford by reducing the cover on the straight life insurance policy. So she had been trying to arrange this insurance reduction a couple of days before she died but it hadn't happened at the time of her death. This information is in the bail docs in a statement by their financial guy Tommy.

 

[wewillgetyou]

I have to correct an error I made earlier about the order of closing statements and I have looked into that again.

A consequence of the accused calling evidence ( whether they give evidence themselves or others give evidence for them) in Queensland is that they lose the right of making the last address.

So in this case I confirm the defence will go first in the closing statements and the prosecution will have the last say.

Sorry for my error.

That is great news ! Very very good news ! Thanks for clearing it up.

I just want to make a comment about how he waffled on about proposing under the Eiffel Tower at Park Rd, Milton.

You needed to hear it within his rumblings.
He and Allison had been planning a holiday to Europe. They were going to Paris. GBC said he didn't want her constantly thinking on each street corner while they were there if this would be the time he would ask her to marry him. So he surprised her and did it at the Park Rd Eifel tower.
They then used that already planned holiday in Europe for their honeymoon.

Not important in the scheme of things, just a bit of trivia I guess :blushing:

 

[Trooper]

Something still banging around disturbingly in the back of my mind, is the bit I read in earlier evidence, that Allison had called the insurance company in the week before her death in an attempt to lower her life insurance coverage. Does anyone remember this?

Did that prompt him to act asap? Did she get a feeling he might be plotting this? If so.... *shudder*

from the forensic accounts statement, it looks like the policy was enquired into before her death in regard to a reduced and/or part payment of the premium due on the policy as at April 6th. .not the amount of the policy benefits.. .. either a small part payment was made, or the insurance company gave a grace and favour extension of 30 days for the entirety of the bill to be paid otherwise the policy would be invalid, expired, finished, ended, gone , all monies invested so far retained by the company and thankyou for your enquiry.

So here is Gerard with $600,000.00 being thrown out the window for the sake of $1,100.00 which he cannot get together.. . with huge other debtors breathing down his neck... what's a bloke to do?

 

[silverau]

No, just sertraline and alcohol. The police found Amoxycillin at the house I believe and Maxolon. Dr Watson will correct me if I'm wrong. I assumed any drug present would be in the autopsy report?

Precisely!

I wonder when the Maxolon was last filled and why it was taken? There's no known link of an interaction with amoxil but there IS a link between Maxolon and Zoloft (sertraline) contributing to serotonin syndrome. For those interested,please Google. Phone issues here and still trying to figure out functions.

 

[squizzey1]

Yes as what they say in pulling their case together is what the jury will hear last before they deliberate on their verdict.

yes ali , last heard first remembered , so his barrister must be confident then

 

[volunteer]

I.M.O. only : The major flaw in GBC's "alibi" for the night of 19th, is his phone being put on the charger. I hope the prosecution goes really hard on this in cross examination.

He has now come up with the revelation that he gave his phone to Alison each evening and took it back each morning. I do not believe that for one minute. For heaven's sake - he was in REAL ESTATE ! Having worked in the industry myself, I can assure you it is not a 9 to 5 job. A lot of offers, negotiations etc. occur after hours. You need your phone 24/7. I do not think he would have agreed to that EVER !

So now he is expecting everyone to believe that he went to bed at 10 pm without his phone and PRESTO! he awakes the next morning at 6 to find HIS phone on the charger, but Alison and HER phone have vanished. Believable? I think not. I.M.O. only

 

[JK673]

Precisely!

I wonder when the Maxolon was last filled and why it was taken? There's no known link of an interaction with amoxil but there IS a link between Maxolon and Zoloft (sertraline) contributing to serotonin syndrome. For those interested,please Google. Phone issues here and still trying to figure out functions.

With all the talk on here...my worry ia that we r giving defence tips
.....

 

[alioop]

Thanks for clarifying, Alioop.

Hypothetically, if he were to be found not guilty, could the Dickies then pursue a civil case against him where the emphasis is on 'likelihood', as opposed to 'reasonable doubt'?

If successful, that might ensure the insurance funds went to the girls?

Technically yes, but the eventuality of a not guilty verdict and Allisons estate has already been covered by a separate legal action to protect the girls. I don't want to say any more than that.

 

[Trooper]

Yes that's right. Allison and GBC had realised that Allison had life insurance included in her superannuation so she was insured for more than they realised. It was a way to save them money they couldn't afford by reducing the cover on the straight life insurance policy. So she had been trying to arrange this insurance reduction a couple of days before she died but it hadn't happened at the time of her death. This information is in the bail docs in a statement by their financial guy Tommy.

Ali... I had forgotten that part of it, the bit about the superannuation inclusion.. we probably both have a bit of the whole story...

the bill that Gerard hadn't paid , which was overdue on April 9th was a combined bill ...the policy, the admin of Laskaris, ... but non payment of it put the entire cover into limbo.. The insurance company paid out the benefit... as they had extended the time for the due bill, .. which meant, technically, if not fiscally, the policy was still in force the night Alison was murdered....

had Gerard waited another 19 days before he murdered Alison, the policy would be well and truly finished and unpayable.. he was 13 days into the worry of this unpaid amount that had the potential to benefit him to the tune of $600,000.00 if claimed.. . ... if unpaid, nothing, nada, zero, zip.

 

[BJsleuth]

Sorry to quote myself - I have just tried to re read this article but it is no longer available.

I find it odd that not one of the girls said they had a BBQ for dinner, neither did NBC for that matter.

If there were parent teacher interviews for the 3 girls that night what time were they?

Did Allison attend the interviews with GBC?

How late in the evening are parent teacher interviews held, been far to many years since I have attended one to know.

One of the girls said mince (ground beef ).


The girl said she had mince for dinner with her family around the dining table.
http://m.couriermail.com.au/news/qu...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226951597398

 

[silverau]

With all the talk on here...my worry ia that we r giving defence tips
.....

Respectfully disagree. An important part of justice is to weigh up arguments for and against.

In this case however,highlighting a possible interaction with Maxolon and Sertraline. which may cause serotonin toxicity in an individual wouldn't help the defense at all.

There was no evidence of hyperthermia or organ failure associated with it in her autopsy.

 

[JK673]

Respectfully disagree. An important part of justice is to weigh up arguments for and against.

In this case however,highlighting a possible interaction with Maxolon and Sertraline. which may cause serotonin toxicity in an individual wouldn't help the defense at all.

There was no evidence of hyperthermia or organ failure associated with it in her autopsy.

Not just talking maxolon post......

 

[alioop]

yes ali , last heard first remembered , so his barrister must be confident then

Who knows Squizzey! GBC may have gone against legal advice in taking the stand. I think GBC's legal team would be nervous of cross examination of their client. It is very risky for the defence and they have no idea how it will go down so to speak. GBC may do well on cross examination or he may destroy himself.

I am following the Oscar Pistorius trial, which is on hold while he gets a mental assessment as his defence put their foot in it. Oscar's cross examination (which went for a few days) by the prosecution was a debarcle. He gave different versions of what happened constantly, sometimes in the one long sentence. It's destroyed his credibility in my opinion and I don't think the Judge (no juries in South Africa) believes a word he said.

 

[squizzey1]

Ali... I had forgotten that part of it, the bit about the superannuation inclusion.. we probably both have a bit of the whole story...

the bill that Gerard hadn't paid , which was overdue on April 9th was a combined bill ...the policy, the admin of Laskaris, ... but non payment of it put the entire cover into limbo.. The insurance company paid out the benefit... as they had extended the time for the due bill, .. which meant, technically, if not fiscally, the policy was still in force the night Alison was murdered....

had Gerard waited another 19 days before he murdered Alison, the policy would be well and truly finished and unpayable.. he was 13 days into the worry of this unpaid amount that had the potential to benefit him to the tune of $600,000.00 if claimed.. . ... if unpaid, nothing, nada, zero, zip.

true but I still don't think it was premeditated . premeditated he would be much more organised , like girls away somewhere and other plans

 

[BJsleuth]

Precisely!

I wonder when the Maxolon was last filled and why it was taken? There's no known link of an interaction with amoxil but there IS a link between Maxolon and Zoloft (sertraline) contributing to serotonin syndrome. For those interested,please Google. Phone issues here and still trying to figure out functions.

I have Maxolon in my medicine chest. When you're sick , you only seem to need a couple of them and then you're left with the rest of the packet.

 

[DrWatson]

No, just sertraline and alcohol. The police found Amoxycillin at the house I believe and Maxolon. Dr Watson will correct me if I'm wrong. I assumed any drug present would be in the autopsy report?

They did a full toxicology screen, which would show most drugs, particularly neuroactive drugs. Antibiotics can slip under the radar of those, due to their short half-life in the system, which is why many antibiotics need to be taken 3 or 4 times a day - including amoxycillin. But the prescribing date on the amoxycillin packet (and the Maxolon) should give the police and pathologists a clue as to whether or not there would be likely to be any in her system.

The sertraline ("Zoloft") was specifically tested for, as they had found the packet in Allison's car, plus they knew she was on it anyway.

And speaking of the sertraline, the defence keep babbling on about "normal levels" being this or that - but they are referring to peripheral blood levels (like you'd get from a blood sample taken from the cubital vein - the one in front of your elbow). But the samples taken from Allison's body were from the liver and some liver tissue - and as I've pointed out before, the liver concentrates many drugs, including sertraline. This, plus post-mortem redistribution, gives much higher levels than a peripheral blood sample would have done - but they couldn't get peripheral blood due to the decomposition.

That's why Prof Olaf Drummer pointed out that the levels that WERE found were within the range that would be expected - in the liver - from somebody who had normal therapeutic levels in their system.

The problem is - the prosecution have to distil this point down to a couple of dot-point facts so that the jury, who would be non-medical, can see what the point actually is.

 

[squizzey1]

Who knows Squizzey! GBC may have gone against legal advice in taking the stand. I think GBC's legal team would be nervous of cross examination of their client. It is very risky for the defence and they have no idea how it will go down so to speak. GBC may do well on cross examination or he may destroy himself.

I am following the Oscar Pistorius trial, which is on hold while he gets a mental assessment as his defence put their foot in it. Oscar's cross examination (which went for a few days) by the prosecution was a debarcle. He gave different versions of what happened constantly, sometimes in the one long sentence. It's destroyed his credibility in my opinion and I don't think the Judge (no juries in South Africa) believes a word he said.

thanks ali , can see the exact same thing here happening , loose lips sink ships , its a race as who started blubbering first big g or Oscar the actor

 

[squizzey1]

They did a full toxicology screen, which would show most drugs, particularly neuroactive drugs. Antibiotics can slip under the radar of those, due to their short half-life in the system, which is why many antibiotics need to be taken 3 or 4 times a day - including amoxycillin. But the prescribing date on the amoxycillin packet (and the Maxolon) should give the police and pathologists a clue as to whether or not there would be likely to be any in her system.

The sertraline ("Zoloft") was specifically tested for, as they had found the packet in Allison's car, plus they knew she was on it anyway.

And speaking of the sertraline, the defence keep babbling on about "normal levels" being this or that - but they are referring to peripheral blood levels (like you'd get from a blood sample taken from the cubital vein - the one in front of your elbow). But the samples taken from Allison's body were from the liver and some liver tissue - and as I've pointed out before, the liver concentrates many drugs, including sertraline. This, plus post-moretem redistribution, gives much higher levels than a peripheral blood sample would have done - but they couldn't get peripheral blood due to the decomposition.

That's why Prof Olaf Drummer pointed out that the levels that WERE found were within the range that would be expected - in the liver - from somebody who had normal therapeutic levels in their system.

The problem is - the prosecution have to distil this point down to a couple of dot-point facts so that the jury, who would be non-medical, can see what the point actually is.

you should be on the jury Doc

 

[silverau]

Not just talking maxolon post......

Forgive me,which part has you worried?

If its serotonin toxicity and the defence uses that... they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. Doesn't give any thought to the fact there was blood and her hair in the car, plants from their property found entwined in her hair,no evidence of broken bones from falling off a bridge, no evidence of any overdose, no evidence of suicidal ideation etc.