GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

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Hello all! First-time poster here, though I’ve been following this story as I’ve waited for my username and email address to be verified… and I’m in, yay! I’ve read everyone’s comments and found them all very fascinating – it’s so amazing and fortunate to have a community like this to help analyse the case, and cases like this. I also find it very interesting that many people have brought up intelligent questions and points that seemingly have been overlooked in court (or are not allowed to be discussed in court for some reason or another…. Grrr.). I’m a Brisbanite born and raised and I have to say, in my 37-year lifetime I’ve never come across a local trial like this. When GBC took the stand yesterday, the entire city stood still.

Before I get into my thoughts, I have a few questions to ask. (Sorry if they’ve been asked already and I missed them during my speed-reading…)

*Urgh, why doesn’t our criminal system allow polygraphs? GBC would be sweating buckets.

*Anyone have a clear idea where GBC is going with TMCH? My first thought was he was going to throw her under the bus. The statement Byrne made – “Allison asked about whether Toni felt bad because he was married, he said she did” – doesn’t seem to make sense because it seems evident that the only thing on her mind was Gerard, Gerard, Gerard. Why would GBC introduce this idea? I can’t think of it as being any use to the defence team?

*One thing keeps playing over in my mind and I don’t quite grasp what it means – in Allison’s diary, she quotes GBC as saying he couldn’t go back to Toni even if he wanted to. Did he insinuate to Allison perhaps that TMCH wouldn’t take him back? Or was he talking about their financial situation or the kids? If it were the latter, I’d think she’d mention the kids in her diary. “Says he is staying with me for kids. Doesn’t love me?” – or something similar? Maybe not – who knows what a person’s really thinking – but I wonder what he meant by telling her this.
Respectfully snipped

:thewave:

Welcome bekazzled to Websleuths ...great post!!!
 
Allison went from being a consultant to running the whole place :great:
He stayed being a consultant :)


BBM. Exactly! Allison gave up her own job (where she excelled) at Flight Centre in support of GBC. He effectively cost her that job. This would plunge them into financial insecurity at the beginning of their married life and give cause to a bleak outlook on any future plans IMO. My opinion only.
 
I am just wondering if anyone has ever asked the question if Allison ever took water with her on her walk? Was Gerard ever asked this question. A lot of people to carry water.

I am also wondering if anyone on here thinks that Gerard is very likely innocent as opposed to not proved guilty beyond reasonable doubt.?? Is that an allowed question? I completely wish he was but there are so many huge problems with this whole thing.
 
The frustrating thing for me and probably I imagine for the Dickies as well is that even if he is found guilty, we will never know exactly what did happen.
 
As stated before Max Sica - look him up - was convicted on FAR LESS circumstantial evidence....

And yet others - Rayney comes to mind - have been acquitted on what seemed to be a very compelling (though circumstantial) case.
 
Ooh ooh just heard on radio national that you can make a mobile phone invisible by wrapping it in alfoil. They didn't mention razors and glad wrap, but pretty nifty trick, eh?
 
So far we haven't heard of any significant depression or anxiety that wasn't limited to Larium side effects or pregnancy/post-partum, have we? Neither of these factors was present when she died. It seems all Allison's major episodes were triggered only by those factors, and otherwise she managed just fine on a maintenance dose of Zoloft.
 
Organised.... that's the operative word, .. but this is Gerard Baden-Clay's event, where even the concept of organised as ordinary people understand it is in a whole other world. ..

I am firmly , in the most concrete way , convinced that Gerard actually thought and probably still thinks that he did organise it. .. one only has to look at his idea of what organised is in the realm of his business, his family, his creditors, his staff, his life as he lived it, to understand that organisation to Gerard is a matter of wild optimism and sheer rat cunning.

If GBC had reached over 10 years or so to conceal always the most important things to each of his family members, staff, colleagues, members of associations, banking institutions, mistress/mistresses etc. - then he was the best organized man in town.
However, the 19th (day of murder) had been the totally end with his nerves costume. IMO
 
Hello all! First-time poster here, though I’ve been following this story as I’ve waited for my username and email address to be verified… and I’m in, yay! <snip>

Welcome Bekazzled :) Great first post

Badenopedia... :floorlaugh:
 
Welcome Bekazzled :welcome: Great first post.

<Respectfully snipped.>

Defence: Let me get this straight, Madame Artifice. You are Mr. Baden-Clay’s astrologer, correct?
Madame Artifice: Correct.
Defence: And the defendant, Mr. Baden-Clay, was born on 9 September, making him a Virgo, correct?
Madame Artifice: That’s right.
Defence: In your expert opinion, what personality traits does Mr. Baden-Clay possess, being ruled by Mercury, the God of Energy?
Madame Artifice: His traits include a tendency to be born to serve. This gives Virgos great joy.
Defence: So, in your astrological opinion, would it be reasonable to assume that the defendant lived to serve his family selflessly?
Madame Artifice: That is a clear pattern for Virgos, yes.
Defence: Virgo males make for very loyal lovers, is that correct?
Madame Artifice: That is characteristic of a Virgo, indeed.
Defence: I rest my case.
*Stunned silence in courtroom*

I love it! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: This is right up there with the marriage proposal under the Eiffel Tower (in Brisbane :floorlaugh:), the Toblerone in Switzerland and not being able to breastfeed! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
He is just too much! How would any other man measure up - we are so unlucky WS girls!
GBC is a catch beyond any woman's most delicious dreams. FAR OUT --- a loving husband, a fully, qualified accountant (but yet not chartered or practicing- really doesn't matter), an unequivocally devoted spouse and so loving and understanding to his new little family, sets up monitoring equipment to make sure his wife is coping with wiping the bench top in the kitchen, capable of changing nappies on the way to an open home, <modsnip> his fist born DAUGHTER oops bummer its a girl child, drives Allison to every doctors appointment to ensure she can function in the future (she doesn't have any other commitments) because its her problem she can't conceive a boy Baden-Clay child.

Sorry Marley - this is the end of rant , I don't expect this post to last long on here, but I have been here on WS since the beginning of this case and I feel quite emotional about Allison, and truly feel that she has been mis-represented by those closest to her. She was the one with potential brains drive and love for life. That was totally sucked out of her and for that I am incredibly sad.
 
Hello all! First-time poster here, though I’ve been following this story as I’ve waited for my username and email address to be verified… and I’m in, yay! I’ve read everyone’s comments and found them all very fascinating – it’s so amazing and fortunate to have a community like this to help analyse the case, and cases like this. I also find it very interesting that many people have brought up intelligent questions and points that seemingly have been overlooked in court (or are not allowed to be discussed in court for some reason or another…. Grrr.). I’m a Brisbanite born and raised and I have to say, in my 37-year lifetime I’ve never come across a local trial like this. When GBC took the stand yesterday, the entire city stood still.

Before I get into my thoughts, I have a few questions to ask. (Sorry if they’ve been asked already and I missed them during my speed-reading…)

*Urgh, why doesn’t our criminal system allow polygraphs? GBC would be sweating buckets.

*Anyone have a clear idea where GBC is going with TMCH? My first thought was he was going to throw her under the bus. The statement Byrne made – “Allison asked about whether Toni felt bad because he was married, he said she did” – doesn’t seem to make sense because it seems evident that the only thing on her mind was Gerard, Gerard, Gerard. Why would GBC introduce this idea? I can’t think of it as being any use to the defence team?

*One thing keeps playing over in my mind and I don’t quite grasp what it means – in Allison’s diary, she quotes GBC as saying he couldn’t go back to Toni even if he wanted to. Did he insinuate to Allison perhaps that TMCH wouldn’t take him back? Or was he talking about their financial situation or the kids? If it were the latter, I’d think she’d mention the kids in her diary. “Says he is staying with me for kids. Doesn’t love me?” – or something similar? Maybe not – who knows what a person’s really thinking – but I wonder what he meant by telling her this.

*Can someone remind me of the exact day in which the verdict is to be read out?

Thoughts re: GBC’s latest comments…

*Allison’s depression/panic attacks: In reference to the comment that Allison was so panicked that she would “pass out” behind the wheel – in my history of psychological research (I have a degree in psych but also a personal interest in the subject, as well as two family members who suffer from panic attacks – one suffers them while driving), NOTHING suggests that a panic attack would lead to the person to “pass out”. In fact, it’s more likely the opposite: the person suffering a panic attacks has their heart hammering, is feeling extreme heat going all up and down their body, can’t breathe properly and is convinced they will die. They are so consciously fearful and panic attacks are so awful that the hyperactive body is not able to simply “pass out”. In my research and from anecdotal research, NO ONE suffering from a panic attack is at risk of passing out. They will instead suffer through it with a heartbeat so accelerated that at times even others can see the hammering movement of their heart through their chest.

*“Byrne says Allison desperately wanted a son because there were no male Baden-Clays”: OK, this isn’t Game of Thrones. We don’t all seek out male heirs to continue the family line. In fact, NO ONE here does. It’s a modern society here like everywhere else. The Baden-Clays and their snobbery about their name are the exception in Brisbane. To everyone else, banging on and on about the family name is a joke. People are free to marry who they like, to take their partner’s surname only if they wish to, etc etc. The days of men longing for a male heir are LONG past. It is also laughable to suggest that a lack of male heir would make a man want to have an affair?!?! (Who does GBC think he is, Henry VIII?)

*Zoloft: I am on Zoloft for anxiety (which has helped very nicely! I’m now much more able to operate, work, go out into society etc much more than I ever did in my 20s, when I wasn’t on Zoloft.) Zoloft is considered to be so safe that even GPs have the authority to prescribe it. “Gerard said they were told a possible side effect from Zoloft was causing more anxiety, loss of libido.” Though Zoloft has a possible side effect of loss of libido, this is higher in men than in women. (And I myself found no such side effect from Zoloft usage: I am female.) As to Gerard being told that a possible side effect of Zoloft is anxiety (a condition that Zoloft is specifically used to control), a study reported by Melissa Conrad Stoppler, MD found that out of 2,799 test subjects taking Zoloft, only 4 people reported anxiety. (The control group that took a placebo showed that 3 people reported anxiety).
So, this study showed that amongst Zoloft users, 0.14% of patients reported anxiety while using Zoloft. In another study, NHS UK reported that 1 in 100 people who take Sertraline hypochloride “may feel nervous or anxious”.
So, at best, Gerard is suggesting that Allison is part of 0.14%-1% of people who suffer from the very rare side effect of anxiety subsisting from Zoloft usage. Yeah, right.

*“Toni became more demanding, telling him he should leave Allison to be with her. That continued for about three years.” – Who in their right mind will believe this? I believe that TMCH didn’t give a fig about Allison, yes, but what man runs out and has a secret affair – potentially costing him everything – when their mistress is “demanding… for about three years.” What we know of GBC and what I’ve seen of men who have affairs is that they choose women who are NOT problematic – they rush off and have the affair because it’s easy for them, not hard! The mistress is their escapism, not an extra burden they’ve taken on! Sheesh… if she was so “demanding” then why did he keep it going for so long? He can’t say it was fear over Allison finding out. She already found out and he continued the affair! Is he insinuating that he’s so soft and stupid that TMCH had him under the thumb? From all the evidence we’ve heard so far, this is far from the truth. As someone else pointed out earlier, it was a poverty-driven affair: no throwing around of money or spa getaways – it was meet-ups in the back of the car, etc. TMCH basically followed him around and did whatever he wanted. It seemed like Toni was easy for him to manage for the most part (else why continue the affair?) and that he loved how needy she was – she blindly adored him, even though he was married, and until their last conversation seemingly let him do whatever he wanted.
What’s his defence against his physical relationship with TMCH? He tripped, fell, and landed on her in a compromising position – over and over again for 3-4 years? What an unlucky, clumsy fellow he is!

*"To be perfectly candid with you it came to a point where I was doing 80 to 90 to 95 ... I couldn't breastfeed obviously [but] I was doing everything in the home because Allison was in a depressed state that wouldn't really enable her to do anything": OK, even if we’re going to buy these lies of his… Has anyone ever explained to GBC what looking after your child is called? It’s called “fatherhood”. Are we supposed to feel sympathy for him because he helped take care of his child? Did he think Allison would just pump out the babies and take care of everything while he sat in a hammock out the back sipping on Long Island Iced Teas and mentally reliving the glory of Kieran Perkins’ swimming career? Because marriage is supposed to be an equal partnership – i.e. you take care of your kids! Even if he’s telling the truth, he’s still doing less than single fathers have to do.

*“When she was pregnant for the second time she was flat": Really? I don’t have kids but have a lot of younger siblings I helped raise. I remember my mother struggling more or less alone during each pregnancy and birth. And wow, it was totally a breeze! It was all I could do to stop my mother from doing cartwheels! (Sorry about all the sarcasm, but really…?!)

*“She was really feeling incapable of much at all. She spoke to my mum about it. She didn't want to speak to her parents about it”: How convenient that she allegedly told no one but GBC’s family about it. This explanation means no one can contradict GBC except for family members who are already on his side – and they’ve had their time in court already.

*“I can tell you 100 per cent why I didn't tell anybody, I was protecting my beautiful wife”: if he doesn’t stop referencing his “beautiful wife”, I’m going to rush down to the courtroom myself and… God only knows what. We know she was beautiful, yes, but does GBC believe this? Evidently not (infidelity). What man, by the way, constantly refers to his wife as “my beautiful wife” in public? Normal men just say “my wife” when referring to their partner, in the same way women don’t refer to their husbands as “my breathtakingly awesome husband.” I looked at his blog and it made me sick – he’s saying he likes Brigitte Jones’s diary because he likes watching chick flicks with “his beautiful wife”. Wow, he’s got that “beautiful wife” line down pat. What man on their blog or facebook or social media page – no matter how in love with their wife – state that they like a movie because they can watch it with “their beautiful wife”? The fact is, men don’t in normal conversation. Because people aren’t interested in hearing this and your blog/fb profile/social media page is about YOUR likes and interests. I can’t think of one occasion where a husband has publicly said “my beautiful wife” so many times in a row, unless you’re Kanye West or someone equally stupid. And I admit GBC is stupid, but the more someone reiterates the same unusual statement over and over the more I question their truthfulness. While some men may believe their wives are beautiful and love them dearly, they don’t harp on about it in public – people get sick of hearing it; it’s not relevant to the listener.

*Princess Diana/Kieran Perkins/9/11 references: What is this, A Brief History Of Modern Global Events by Gerald Baden Clay? Is he going to bring up Michael Jackson’s death too? How “Hurt Locker” won the Academy Award? The global financial crisis and its implications for iron ore exports out of Australia? Obama’s re-election? GBC, we’re all well aware of these events. If any of us want to check out the hit list of what’s happened over the last decade or so, we’ll look up Wikipedia. Not Badenopedia.

*“Allison was a very gifted ballerina as a child and was under considerable pressure, she felt”: Guess what, so was I. And ballet teachers can be quite nasty and induce nerves. That doesn’t mean that as an adult I’m suffering traumatic flashbacks to the time my teacher screamed at me in front of everyone, stating “I’m starting to regret moving you up to the senior class. Go and stand in the corner for 45 minutes and stare at the wall. No, closer than that! Nose to the wall! Now stay there”. It was bad, yes, but it happened was when I was a child, in a different world where this behaviour was overlooked. Things that happen in your childhood can shape you as a person but something like this does not have an impact on your daily life as an adult, in my experience. Nor is there any research out there to correlating pressure received as a child from ballet teachers with raising your children as an adult!

*“Byrne back up. Saying Gerard had no intention of being with Toni. Told her 1 July but knew it wouldn't happen.” Hey, this happens to be one part of the defence argument that may be true. I think his skill was in placating women. I think he murdered Allison for the money alone (and maybe the free-swinging single lifestyle). I’m not a mathematician, but he was about $1 million in debt. Allison’s life insurance was around $1 million. What an odd coincidence!!! I always felt he only kept TMCH stringing along, just placating her and taking whatever pleasure he could from her. And now he seems to be throwing her under the bus, this just confirms my suspicion.

*Traded down from Lexus to Captiva: Oh, wow, what a come-down! How could he live with this economic desolation? Having to downgrade a car to accommodate a changed financial situation – what a tragedy. I’m sure the starving, poverty-stricken refugees in Africa are feeling sympathy for GBC’s monetary issues. (Sorry, but his woe-is-me story just drives me insane...)

*Are we really going to have to endure The Dull History of GBC’s Travels & Work History for days to come? I’m trying to think of what witnesses the defence could possibly call. Forensic guys who might try to discredit the prosecution’s forensic experts’ arguments, yes, but the defence has already covered this in response to the prosecution witnesses. (Through stupid arguments questioning the validity of the speaker.) Who else could he possibly call that would shed new light on his argument? Some charlatan?

Defence: Let me get this straight, Madame Artifice. You are Mr. Baden-Clay’s astrologer, correct?
Madame Artifice: Correct.
Defence: And the defendant, Mr. Baden-Clay, was born on 9 September, making him a Virgo, correct?
Madame Artifice: That’s right.
Defence: In your expert opinion, what personality traits does Mr. Baden-Clay possess, being ruled by Mercury, the God of Energy?
Madame Artifice: His traits include a tendency to be born to serve. This gives Virgos great joy.
Defence: So, in your astrological opinion, would it be reasonable to assume that the defendant lived to serve his family selflessly?
Madame Artifice: That is a clear pattern for Virgos, yes.
Defence: Virgo males make for very loyal lovers, is that correct?
Madame Artifice: That is characteristic of a Virgo, indeed.
Defence: I rest my case.
*Stunned silence in courtroom*
:loveyou: amazing post , Thankyou for joining :loveyou:
 
April 3 I have given you a commitment and I intend to stick to it - I will be seperated by July 1

April 11 This is agony for me too. i I love you. I'm sorry you hung up on me. It sounded like you were getting very angry. I love you GG. Leave things to me now. I love you GM

http://m.couriermail.com.au/news/qu...lison-was-killed/story-fnihsrf2-1226949972244

Thank you kindly.

Okay putting this theory out there. He rings Bruce Flegg in Dec 2011 and asks for $400,000. Gets knocked back.

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 29s

Dr Flegg says on 6 March, 2012, he received a message from Gerard asking him to call. #badenclay

Dr Flegg says he was in the election period and very busy so he asked Sue Heath to return the call. #badenclay

Dr Flegg says Sue Heath told him Gerard had asked again to borrow money. Dr Flegg called him back on March 11, 2012. #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 11s

Defence suggests Gerard didn't "seek to pursue" the loan request when Dr Flegg called him back, he'd moved on. Dr Flegg agrees. #badenclay


He gets knocked back again. But has now moved on..? Is this when he started hatching his plan?? We know that the insurance was due in April, and was given a grace period to be paid by May. He rang the insurance but because he wasn't the policy holder he couldn't ask about the part payment, so got Allison to ring. That was what a week before she went missing? Getting his ducks in a row..? Having made a part payment, giving himself the guarantee that it will be paid out when she ends up deceased.
 
I have subscribed to 4 free articles daily, but can't copy and paste a link.
May I have your briefly advice on what to do next time?

For any sites that have a paywall, one way to access further reports is to close the site & clean out your cookies. The only other option is to pay up :sigh:

While I'm here...there may be further housekeeping taking place across the weekend. The major upgrade won't be happening for another week or so.

When WS is upgraded, don't panic, it will still operate the same as it does now. It will just "look" different & will have some nice new options. :)
 
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