GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[Susan12]

I find myself agreeing with you a lot Mumma Bear I think the timing of the counselling session on Monday (?) was not coincidental. And the 15 minute Q&A session on the Wednesday night. I hate to say it because I feel like it's putting an unfair burden on the counsellor, but I think it's very possible that the Wednesday night 'talk' was a trigger or the final straw. That they went for a drive to have the talk (if you believe GBC) tells me that talk was more serious than previously. I think Allison felt empowered by the counsellor and more in control of things and this was not what was GBC was used to. And then that coinciding with the conference on Friday and his 'commitment' to Toni and the Thursday night phone calls. I would say he was most afraid of Allison finding out about Toni because if Allison walked, it would destroy his image. I think both Allison and Toni were upping the ante (ha I spelled it "anti "which would have suited) on him and he killed Allison. I'm still on the fence whether I think it was planned or something that got out of hand. A large part of me thinks it was something that got out of hand because when he says "I did not kill her" I think he really believes that. Oddly enough, the only coincidence that I think was just that is the timing of life insurance policy payments.

I like your thinking. Allison might have confronted him about Toni being there the next day. He might have got worried that the two women might talk to each other at the conference and that Allison would find out he was seeing Toni again and/or that he'd said he would leave her. That might have prompted him to do this or he might have been going to do it re the money situation anyway but he upped the timeline because if Allison told others and left him the chance of him being the suspect after that would escalate.

 

[kiwijayne]

Was test run to see how much time he would have?

Could have been or the real thing.

Thing is for the insurance money to be paid out quickly her body would need to found quickly(but not to quickly). With no body I guess there is a time you have to wait before a person is declared legally dead(in NZ I believe it is 7 years).

So maybe Mt Coot tha wasn't suitable and Kholo creek was. Plus he might have hoped for more evidence to wash away etc.

 

[BJsleuth]

I find myself agreeing with you a lot Mumma Bear I think the timing of the counselling session on Monday (?) was not coincidental. And the 15 minute Q&A session on the Wednesday night. I hate to say it because I feel like it's putting an unfair burden on the counsellor, but I think it's very possible that the Wednesday night 'talk' was a trigger or the final straw. That they went for a drive to have the talk (if you believe GBC) tells me that talk was more serious than previously. I think Allison felt empowered by the counsellor and more in control of things and this was not what was GBC was used to. And then that coinciding with the conference on Friday and his 'commitment' to Toni and the Thursday night phone calls. I would say he was most afraid of Allison finding out about Toni because if Allison walked, it would destroy his image. I think both Allison and Toni were upping the ante (ha I spelled it "anti "which would have suited) on him and he killed Allison. I'm still on the fence whether I think it was planned or something that got out of hand. A large part of me thinks it was something that got out of hand because when he says "I did not kill her" I think he really believes that. Oddly enough, the only coincidence that I think was just that is the timing of life insurance policy payments.

That sounds right to me.

 

[KG1]

I find myself agreeing with you a lot Mumma Bear I think the timing of the counselling session on Monday (?) was not coincidental. And the 15 minute Q&A session on the Wednesday night. I hate to say it because I feel like it's putting an unfair burden on the counsellor, but I think it's very possible that the Wednesday night 'talk' was a trigger or the final straw. That they went for a drive to have the talk (if you believe GBC) tells me that talk was more serious than previously. I think Allison felt empowered by the counsellor and more in control of things and this was not what was GBC was used to. And then that coinciding with the conference on Friday and his 'commitment' to Toni and the Thursday night phone calls. I would say he was most afraid of Allison finding out about Toni because if Allison walked, it would destroy his image. I think both Allison and Toni were upping the ante (ha I spelled it "anti "which would have suited) on him and he killed Allison. I'm still on the fence whether I think it was planned or something that got out of hand. A large part of me thinks it was something that got out of hand because when he says "I did not kill her" I think he really believes that. Oddly enough, the only coincidence that I think was just that is the timing of life insurance policy payments.

Perhaps he should have said 'I hit her and she died', which in his mind may tell himself that he 'did not kill her'. Or even if she fell and hit her head trying to get away from him, he could say the same and believe that he 'did not kill her'. But this would not account for all the other circumstances that this case rests on. MOO

 

[BJsleuth]

I like your thinking. Allison might have confronted him about Toni being there the next day. He might have got worried that the two women might talk to each other at the conference and that Allison would find out he was seeing Toni again and/or that he'd said he would leave her. That might have prompted him to do this or he might have been going to do it re the money situation anyway but he upped the timeline because if Allison told others and left him the chance of him being the suspect after that would escalate.

Or Allison discovered he'd called Toni that afternoon and she was going to leave him.

 

[Susan12]

Did they mention him calling the life insurance company in court?
Did they mention him googling self incrimination in the days before and just again before calling the police in court?

 

[Zim]

All the glowing white in the abc report is not blood.

Thanks Ali

 

[Liadan]

if Allison did have his phone that night - then she could have just as easily worked out that he had called TM. She would know that TM was at Blocksidge and Ferguson and that was one of the numbers on his phone the day before she went missing.

I wonder if Allison knew about this call and the two other times TM called GBC? OF course we may never know but does not bode well for the defence who are claiming that GBC and Allison are getting over his infidelities together and as part of this protocol GBC must have no contact with Tm.

Sticky STicky STICKY

 

[Neuromancer]

Respectfully snipped by me...


I wonder if the still wet blood stain would have had a different pattern (drip mark) if the car had been moving, or if it was stationary.
I wonder if the pooling at the base is spread differently under the same circumstances?

I wonder if that's forensically possible to tell.
The blood was thin.

Friday night think fest.

Good question!

I'd guess as long as you were just driving along steadily with the windows up, it should be exactly the same, because everything inside the car would be travelling forward at the same speed and subject to the same forces. But if you braked suddenly, the drip's inertia would keep it moving forward faster than the car momentarily until friction slowed it down (just as other loose objects in a car will come flying at you from the back seat if you brake suddenly)

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Maxalon's a common drug used for nausea/vomiting from any cause and handy to have around. Sort of thing you'd have in a travel kit, or be given for a whole range of conditions that involve nausea. Handy for hangovers

Only taken as needed mostly, but you could be on it regularly if you had some chronic nausea (eg from chemotherapy, opiate pain treatment, chronic gastro-intestinal problems). The other regular use I've seen is for some stomach/digestive issues, where it's used to speed up the movement of food from stomach to the small intestine.

But really - it's so common and general that the only thing i'd deduce from its presence in a medicine cabinet is "someone had this prescribed for nausea at some point"

Exactly! I am a fanatical "what if" person so my bathroom cupboard contains maxalon for nausea, imodium for squirty bottom, pills for pain, pills for fever, dencorub, voltaren, xanax for moments of panic, and if I travel I take a supply of general antibiotics, cold and flu tabs, instant ice packs, 25 different shapes of bandaids (you never know if the injury will be a chest or a knee or a hand or even a cheek) so I think there is nothing of consequence with maxalon - be prepared......and who better than a descendant of baden powell....?

 

[Susan12]

:floorlaugh:

Or Allison discovered he'd called Toni that afternoon and she was going to leave him.

True that.

I must say even if he didn't kill her, he's not a nice guy. I've no doubt living with someone who's depressed can be hard so it was probably hard for him at times in the past before she picked up but cheating on his wife and lying to her and destroying her self esteem through that and toying her along has no excuse. It would have only made her struggles worse.

(But I don't believe for a minute she did this. No one thought she was suicidal even in the dark times and not even GBC on that morning re the police interview. I cannot see how she would leave her girls. I can't see why she would bother to get a nice hair do, make plans for the next day then everything changes and she does it. And then to go so far to do it, without changing her mind in the way, and trying to hide what happened to her and have her girls never know by hiding under a bridge? No I just don't think so.

 

[alioop]

Could have been or the real thing.

Thing is for the insurance money to be paid out quickly her body would need to found quickly(but not to quickly). With no body I guess there is a time you have to wait before a person is declared legally dead(in NZ I believe it is 7 years).

So maybe Mt Coot tha wasn't suitable and Kholo creek was. Plus he might have hoped for more evidence to wash away etc.

There is no required time in Qld for a person to be declared dead when they go missing. It depends on the circumstances but it would at the least take a couple of years I believe, likely longer.

 

[kiwijayne]

There is no required time in Qld for a person to be declared dead when they go missing. It depends on the circumstances but it would at the least take a couple of years I believe, likely longer.

Thanks Alioop. So to get the money faster he would need the body found faster? I guess.:cheers:

 

[Aliwonders]

Why would Toni have demanded that Gerard tell Allison that she was going to be at the conference? Did she want to discourage Allison from going. It seems strange to me. Wouldn't it have seemed more proper if Gerard didn't know Toni would be there. If Gerard was going to tell Allison then that would be letting Allison know that Toni and Gerard were in contact again. Thus opening up the can of deceit worms again. Did Toni pursue this to maybe bring things to a head or hoping to guarantee something would happen to put an end to this marriage once and for all. There are some very strange dynamics going on here.

 

[LadyBird1]

I guess I feel with the Linda chamberlain story that it's plausible a wild dog would take a baby. They always say even with domestic dogs that babies are the bottom end of the chain and to be careful. It's more plausible to me than a mother doing it to her own baby unless there's some sort of mental issue or issue between the parents which didn't seek to apply.

In this case there's too much going on. An affair and he told the mistress he couldn't afford a divorce yet would be free from July 1. The plants in her hair only being found at the house. The blood in the car. The fingernail scratches on his face. His demeanour (see that 9 news interview while she was missing everyone who watches that thinks he is guilty). The phone going on the charger when he said he was asleep. Going from zero to calling the police in 20-30mins just because she didn't answer her phone. The googling self incrimination before calling police. The first responder police officer being suspicious and being right as she was found dead. A second persons DNA under the fingernails. Being found in a location that's implausible she would have taken herself to. A woman who was stable and had future plans. Noone witnessed it and they don't have the murder weapon because they don't have cause of death but they do have a lot of circumstantial evidence.

P.S. I think he'll get caught out a bit trying to say he'd committed to his wife and the affair was over. There were those recent emails to Toni saying the July 1 date and he'd be with her soon.

Something that I would like to add in regards to Azaria Chamberlain.
A neighbour of mine (now deceased) told me a story of an aboriginal baby who was stolen by a dingo. His mother caught the animal right in the act. She chased after the dingo yelling and screaming in hot pursuit. The dingo dropped it's prize. The mother retrieved her baby. The child grew up with a rather bad facial scar. This is what prompted my neighbour to enquire as to the scar.
What I am saying is this: Dingos do take babies, have taken babies, that is a fact.
The court at that time did NOT take that into account.

Dingos are quite different to domestic dogs.
I know this for a fact. They are pack animals. Or family animals. Nothing to with food chain etc.
They are in fact very loving, and at the same time very sleuthful. Also super intelligent. And with super powerful jaws and neck. Unlike any domestic dog.
If only this matter had been understood at the time, lessons may been learned, and people may have been aware. Meaning, with understanding, any further attacks or mishaps should have never need occur.
Some humans could take a lesson ..... Especially those with no conscience, no scruples and no ethics.

 

[they'll get you]

in the girls interview, the youngest said she had a "special" seat to sit in because of her age. The eldest girl said she sat in the middle and Sparky was a 7 seater.
Im wondering if the "special" seat was still in the car when police arrived?

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226951597398

Do you mean a booster seat Amee? If it was only Kate and Allison going to the conference there would be no need to remove it.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Yes indeed, the miscarriage must have hit him hard too. No doubt the subsequent recovery was so much harder on him than on Allison. What an amazing husband he was, taking the miscarriage on board, along with his breastfeeding "failure", because you know "I couldn't breastfeed, but . . . I was doing 80, to 90, nearly 100% of the parenting." Pick a percent GBC and stick to it. It's not like you haven't had time these past two years to get your story straight. Very strange.

Yeah but we know he is mathematically challenged and in all honesty I reckon men and their percentage contribution estimates would be much like their assesment of their personal endowment measurement and the size of the fish they caught - VASTLY over estimated! My hubby probably thinks he does 50% of parenting and household chores just because he tells the kids to get dressed, have shower etc and takes the rubbish out once a week!

 

[they'll get you]

I am almost scared to listen to what happens on Monday!! :/

Yep me too. Will there be a public outcry if he walks free?

 

[Brightbird]

Sydneygal, what you're saying isn't beyond the realms of possibility but Allison's blood was found in the Captiva. GBC apparently conducted his trysts with TM in the Prado. So if Allison wanted to play out that scenario, one would think that she'd want to do it in the Prado. Yes?

I think loads of things go on in unhappy marriages that are very private and might shock people who thought they knew the individuals and the couple. I'm not judging. But I don't think the prosecution have to prove exactly how the blood ended up in the car, just that it is unusual in a new car, in the context of Allison's death, and the other pieces of the puzzle. The exact details are less relevant. Imo.

 

[BJsleuth]

Why would Toni have demanded that Gerard tell Allison that she was going to be at the conference? Did she want to discourage Allison from going. It seems strange to me. Wouldn't it have seemed more proper if Gerard didn't know Toni would be there. If Gerard was going to tell Allison then that would be letting Allison know that Toni and Gerard were in contact again. Thus opening up the can of deceit worms again. Did Toni pursue this to maybe bring things to a head or hoping to guarantee something would happen to put an end to this marriage once and for all. There are some very strange dynamics going on here.

Exactly and how was he going to explain to Toni when Allison was at the conference? TM was going to be really angry, or was that part of the plan? To cast the shadow of suspicion on TM?