GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[Snails]

GBC always wanted a boy

. . . so that he could raise his son to be the upstanding citizen he was raised to be. Lol!

 

[KG1]

Yes I could see why GBC would fear that - he's been telling conflicting stories to the two of them.

I still don't understand TM's hissy fit about it tho. Why would she be freaking out about Allison being there? The last time they ran into each other (at the gym i assume) they both politely ignored each other (then sent nasty texts to GBC, lol)
And her concern seems to be that GBC needs to tell Allison that TM will be there. - Why?

The easy reason would be that TM is just being overly dramatic, but that's the sort of excuse GBC would use. Is there something here we're missing?

Perhaps TM believed that by GBC telling Allison that TM would be there, Allison would not go to the conference. Recall that TM had only been at a new job a week and TM stated that she had no way of not going to the conference herself. That way TM achieves 2 objects - a) no confrontation or uncomfortableness as Allison not there and b) Allison now knows that GBC and TM are in contact (otherwise how does GBC know that TM is going to conference)? Maybe TM hopes that this new knowledge to Allison will bring the marriage matter to a head and hopefully the end of the marriage - July 1 is not that far away. GBC responds ...'leave it all to me now' or words to that effect. MOO

 

[KG1]

For what it's worth, I think the phone was at 61 Boscombe Road at about 1.10pm 20 April, while Kellie Thompson was speaking with Sgt Curtis. IMO
Why? His reactions were very strange. Instead of saying "Oh thank God! Thankyou. Let's go right there right now."
Instead he may as well have said "Oh s*!#!. I didn't expect a female cop to find it using app...... Bugger! Think quick, get someone to get it, and create a distraction.
Use an innocent distraction. This is a really big stuff up. Bugger. "

Where the phone ended up after that time, is anybody's guess.
What I am saying is this; Unless 61 Boscombe Road place was kept under 100% surveillance from 1.10pm 20 April, onwards, then I will stand corrected.
Did anybody suspect at that time exactly what manner of people they were dealing with?
I mean the DEGREE of sleuthfullness, cunning, manipulation, deflections, outright lies, financial problems, immoral matters etc.

How accurate are those locators on the phone? Is that where Scraps lives? If so, maybe Scraps buried it as battery ran out. If not, then someone, somehow retrieved that phone and disposed of same. Something has always bothered me about the 'granny pash'. EBC seems to be 'patting down' NBC before she 'pashes' him. Is she patting for a phone? The 'granny pash' was on 28/4/2012 (Saturday) when GBC and NBC went to GBC's house to get clothes and toys etc. I don't know what date the GBC house was released from being a crime scene, but if this was the first date that GBC et al were allowed back, then I think the 'pash' scenario is more than just a display of comtempt to the watching media. EBC is obviously very very happy about something. IMO

 

[Makara]

How accurate are those locators on the phone? Is that where Scraps lives? If so, maybe Scraps buried it as battery ran out. If not, then someone, somehow retrieved that phone and disposed of same. Something has always bothered me about the 'granny pash'. EBC seems to be 'patting down' NBC before she 'pashes' him. Is she patting for a phone? The 'granny pash' was on 28/4/2012 (Saturday) when GBC and NBC went to GBC's house to get clothes and toys etc. I don't know what date the GBC house was released from being a crime scene, but if this was the first date that GBC et al were allowed back, then I think the 'pash' scenario is more than just a display of comtempt to the watching media. EBC is obviously very very happy about something. IMO

Wow KG1! I thought exactly the same thing when I saw the granny pash. She's patting him down or checking his pocket. <modsnip>

 

[Zim]

I have tried to look past the stereotype (heavily backed up by statistics) that white African men view women as property when considering NBC. His family used to be part of my community, so I have some context to place him in.

Not fair Possum ! blushing
Can you please tell me where the link/statistics that white African men as opposed to other African men or in fact stats as to other men in the world who regard women as property... Chinese ? Indian ? Spanish ? Islamic ? Christian ? Catholic....Just sayin'... there are men the world over that think like that, it is not exclusively a white African man trait.

 

[Bekazzled]

There is alot of road circling Mt Coot tha. Perhaps he took her there to do the deed and chickened out with all the people there? He had the perfect opportunity his alibis where sitting in his house with his children. He could have come home without her and they would say nothing. Then report her missing the next morning as he did that Friday. Is that even plausible?

I'm not sure about how it would fit in with the timeline, but in terms of location - yes, you could absolutely kill someone up at Mt Cootha and no one would see. It's an awful thing to think about and say, I know. But Mt Cootha has its primary area (restaurant and cafe on the summit, the 'lover's lane' car area as you go up the hill) - but this is just the tourist and look-out area, occupying a very small part of the mountain and surrounding mountains. Circling around Mt Cootha for kilometres on end is unoccupied woods. A guy I went to uni with in fact decided he wanted to "rough it" and reject society for a while, and spent three months living on the other side of Mt Cootha, down the mountain a bit and into the woods (illegally in a national park forest, technically speaking). He set up a tent and only drove into the city two or three times while he was "living" in the woods for a few supplies. No one ever saw him in the months he was there. The police and tourists never noticed him. The mountain is MASSIVE and if you take the back roads, it leads to a series of other mountains like Mt Glorious. You can drive for a few hours around Mt Cootha to Mt Glorious and beyond and it is all unoccupied woods.

I actually went on a date with my ex, who took me up to Mt Cootha afterwards. He wanted to show me the park his parents took him to when he was little. We'd seen some awful horror movie at the cinema and when we drove past the Mt Cootha look-out and down the other side of the mountain, he pulled up at the small national park area called Slaughter Falls (with a big sign pronouncing this as you pulled up). It was a Saturday night but there was no one around. I'm not someone who's afraid of the dark, but after seeing the horror movie (one of those stupid Final Destination films) and realizing we were alone, in the dark, in the woods, at a place called Slaughter Falls - I was IRATE. I kept insisting I wanted to leave, while he wanted to look at the stars. He was driving so I was kind of stuck there. He finally agreed to go, laughing at me like I was immature. I was furious with him. The very still, abandoned atmosphere terrified me.

I later learnt that Slaughter Falls is named after JC Slaughter, who was Town Clerk of Brisbane - the chief admin officer - for a very long time (30 years?). But I still remember screeching, "You take me to see a horror movie - and I hate horror movies - and then drive me up to an abandoned state forest at night called Slaughter Falls?" There were a few swear words in that sentence, too. Though Slaughter Falls is only a few minutes from the Mt Cootha popular tourist area, it's like entering an entirely different world.

That relationship didn't last long.

 

[kiwijayne]

I'm not sure about how it would fit in with the timeline, but in terms of location - yes, you could absolutely kill someone up at Mt Cootha and no one would see. It's an awful thing to think about and say, I know. But Mt Cootha has its primary area (restaurant and cafe on the summit, the 'lover's lane' car area as you go up the hill) - but this is just the tourist and look-out area, occupying a very small part of the mountain and surrounding mountains. Circling around Mt Cootha for kilometres on end is unoccupied woods. A guy I went to uni with in fact decided he wanted to "rough it" and reject society for a while, and spent three months living on the other side of Mt Cootha, down the mountain a bit and into the woods (illegally in a national park forest, technically speaking). He set up a tent and only drove into the city two or three times while he was "living" in the woods for a few supplies. No one ever saw him in the months he was there. The police and tourists never noticed him. The mountain is MASSIVE and if you take the back roads, it leads to a series of other mountains like Mt Glorious. You can drive for a few hours around Mt Cootha to Mt Glorious and beyond and it is all unoccupied woods.

I actually went on a date with my ex, who took me up to Mt Cootha afterwards. He wanted to show me the park his parents took him to when he was little. We'd seen some awful horror movie at the cinema and when we drove past the Mt Cootha look-out and down the other side of the mountain, he pulled up at the small national park area called Slaughter Falls (with a big sign pronouncing this as you pulled up). It was a Saturday night but there was no one around. I'm not someone who's afraid of the dark, but after seeing the horror movie (one of those stupid Final Destination films) and realizing we were alone, in the dark, in the woods, at a place called Slaughter Falls - I was IRATE. I kept insisting I wanted to leave, while he wanted to look at the stars. He was driving so I was kind of stuck there. He finally agreed to go, laughing at me like I was immature. I was furious with him. The very still, abandoned atmosphere terrified me.

I later learnt that Slaughter Falls is named after JC Slaughter, who was Town Clerk of Brisbane - the chief admin officer - for a very long time (30 years?). But I still remember screeching, "You take me to see a horror movie - and I hate horror movies - and then drive me up to an abandoned state forest at night called Slaughter Falls?" There were a few swear words in that sentence, too. Though Slaughter Falls is only a few minutes from the Mt Cootha popular tourist area, it's like entering an entirely different world.

That relationship didn't last long.

My fiance and I have been up there many times at night. Just parking and looking at the city(the beautiful city that has welcomed us into the fold).

Opps bad mistake re slaughter falls.

 

[sosocurious]

While I now understand thanks to informed posters that phones ping to other towers in the area.
I still cannot get my head around how a phone that was supposedly in Brookfield while its owner was at home putting her children to bed, chatting to her husand and watching the Footy Show does not log on to Brookfield Tower during the evening. But logs onto the Kenmore Tower at 8.53pm on the 19th April and then at 6.27 am from the Fig Tree Pocket tower on the 20 April
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...tain-matched-allisons-dna-20140625-zsltw.html







http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...tain-matched-allisons-dna-20140625-zsltw.html

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226951597398

 

[FigTree]

Yes I could see why GBC would fear that - he's been telling conflicting stories to the two of them.

I still don't understand TM's hissy fit about it tho. Why would she be freaking out about Allison being there? The last time they ran into each other (at the gym i assume) they both politely ignored each other (then sent nasty texts to GBC, lol)
And her concern seems to be that GBC needs to tell Allison that TM will be there. - Why?

The easy reason would be that TM is just being overly dramatic, but that's the sort of excuse GBC would use. Is there something here we're missing?

A mistress scorned?
It was GBC that contacted TM and rekindled the relationship.
TM had been told by GBC that he loved her.
Second attempt at the affair, I would say there were conditions this time around.
They weren't met by GBC.
TM had left her husband.
GBC spoke of plans of TM and him together in the future, even possibly moving in with her after he left Allison -
GBC promised TM he would tell Allison that she would be at the same Conference -

Just an example of the leads and lied GBC told to TM
By the 11th hour, he had not told Allison that TM would be at the Conference.
In fact he was (purportedly) working through rectifying things with Allison about his affair with TM that same evening.


Meanwhile...
TM was under the impression that Allison knew he was ending his marriage and leaving her for TM.

*(-)=my edits & My bold...

Application for Forensic Procedure Order - Dated 14th June 2012
"McHugh stated to Police that since her relationship with the defendant was re-commenced they often discussed their future together as a committed couple and stated that the defendant told her that he intended to leave (*Allison) BADEN-CLAY and made suggestion that (*Allison) BAYDEN-CLAY had knowledge of his intention to leave her.

Phone Tizzy Fit 19th April 2012 = TM was about to be confronted the next day with the wife of the man she was having an affair with who (as far as TM knew) had been told that she was being left for, for another woman - herself - and GBC had still done nothing about it.
GBC said to: 'Leave things to me now. I love you.'

TM lost it - and GBC had been caught in his own web of lies and deceit.

TM was demanding that GBC honour his agreements and keep his promises.
GBC had not left his wife - he had not told Allison he was leaving his marriage at all - he was stalling, he was lying, he was now being unfaithful facepalm to TM (in her eyes).

Meanwhile...
ABC did not know anything about this - she was under the impression of the contrary.

:moo:
____________________
Further Links & Quotes:
Source: Read More&#8230;

He said Baden-Clay and his mistress set a date from which to begin a new life together on July 1, 2012.

He said the accused told Ms McHugh his wife would be attending the same real estate conference she was planning to attend on April 20, 2012.

He said the accused told Ms McHugh he was intending to leave his marriage and contemplated selling his business.

Mr Fuller showed emails to the jury in which Ms McHugh wrote to the ``Bruce Overland&#8217;&#8217; account planning their new life.

Baden-Clay allegedly wrote back from the account: ``I have given you a commitment and I intend to stick to it - I will be separated by 1 July.&#8217;&#8217;

In another email he wrote on April 11, 2012: ``This is agony for me, too.&#8217;&#8217;

Mr Fuller said the accused and Ms McHugh referred to one another as GG for ``gorgeous girl&#8217;&#8217; and GM for ``gorgeous man&#8217;&#8217;.

In emails he sent from a pseudonym account called &#8220;Bruce Overland&#8221;, the accused allegedly pledged his love for Ms McHugh and spoke of their plan to build a new life together by July 1.

He showed the jury an email from Baden-Clay to his mistress on April 11, 2012: &#8220;This is agony for me too. I love you. I&#8217;m sorry you hung up on me. It sounded like you were getting very angry. I love you GG. Leave things to me now. I love you. GM.&#8221;

In others shown to the jury, Ms McHugh suggested Baden-Clay move in with her once the marriage ended.

 

[FigTree]

I too think that the phone was found and spirited away by somebody, between when it showed up on the app on GBC's phone, and when the official search got under way. Oh how the culprit must have panicked inside, and then heaved a huge sigh of relief when the phone was "eliminated".

For Allison's phone to show up, on the app, though, it was (a) turned on, and (b) still had battery power. Given that it was supposedly logged onto the Fig Tree Pocket tower from about 6:31 that morning, for over 13 hours till it dropped off, I'm not sure where in the back garden of 61 Boscombe Rd it would have been, to be logged onto the FTP tower from there. There are two towers in Kenmore between them - the one behind the substation at the top of Brookfield Rd (the one that pokes out above the trees), and the one at the other end of the shops along Moggill Rd, on the corner opposite the catholic church - almost behind what is now the Mexican restaurant.

So how it came to be connected to the FTP tower, but during that time showed up on the app as being in the garden of 61 Boscombe Rd, is a puzzle.

There's something odd and inconsistent about that, that I can't quite figure out. I'm pretty sure 61 Boscombe Rd is NOT within line-of-sight to the FTP tower.

Also, if the phone was then taken and moved to somewhere else - why did it not drop off the FTP tower until that evening, over 13 hours after it first connected? And that was about the time that the police were searching for it in that garden.

Big mystery right there.....

Correct me if Im wrong - Im only going off the Gary Tweddle case when his phone wasn't found and had ran out of battery and it was trying to be traced...

Im sure someone said that once a closeby tower is maxed out, the calls and signals divert to the next available tower.
If the amount of calls in the area from and too Brookfield ramped up over those hours (and they would have) - calls would get diverted to the other tower until the demand lessened and went back to a closer tower to the phone.

Hope that makes sense and I have no idea if its right or not.
Which Tower were other local peoples phone pinging off at that time who were in the same area? Were their phone being diverted at times to FTP?

Any locals with phone records for the same time on the board?

 

[possumheart]

Hi Makara - I know about the stuff that is in the article, which is why Flegg lost his position as minister. But I still can't help the feeling that there may be more to this - but I'm not allowed to speculate here on what that may be.

We'll leave that one there, I think - leave it hanging in the breeze. And if anything transpires that is relevant, I can look smug and say "Told ya so!"

Doc, do you think this is why G did the big filibuster in court?

 

[possumheart]

Oh, sorry Doc. Did you see the other link that Kiwijayne just posted. Apparently Fleggy is also suing Graham.

http://www.medicalobserver.com.au/ne...former-adviser

Article is gone ALREADY.

 

[possumheart]

Not fair Possum ! blushing
Can you please tell me where the link/statistics that white African men as opposed to other African men or in fact stats as to other men in the world who regard women as property... Chinese ? Indian ? Spanish ? Islamic ? Christian ? Catholic....Just sayin'... there are men the world over that think like that, it is not exclusively a white African man trait.

Fantastic read here Zim.
http://thefeministwire.com/2013/03/race-class-masculinities-and-violence-against-women-in-south-africa/

(Thus)The combination of colonial violence, apartheid violence, resistance violence, institutionalized racism and militant white domination deeply influenced the masculine ideals of South African men and are undeniably responsible for the violence of today. But the extent to which class comfort protects white women from male violence, and how wealth and power contribute to violently patriarchal senses of entitlement and dangerous possessiveness are subject of ambiguity. And we will not find out if both media and researchers keep treating violence against women as a black affair.

 

[thesydneysider]

So this case lacks any concrete physical evidence, so whatever decision thats arrived at, will be arrived at based on all the circumstantial evidence. I dont think either the prosecution or the defence can be 100% confident. Here's my take on the summary..

Prosecutions case.
1) Allison had depression, but it was well under control as per the professionals she was seeing.
2) Allison's depression was not suicidal (as evidenced by pyschologist(s))
3) Gerard had 2 main motives.
- Money
- Mistress
4) Blood in the captiva was allison's.
5) The injuries marks on Gerard's face and body.
6) The phone was connected to the charger in the middle of the night.


The defence is mainly about addressing each of the above points.
1) Allison had depression, but it was random, unpredictable (some good days some bad days) and not under control
2) Allison's depression was debilitating.
3) They are trying to debunk the 2 main motives by saying..
- They were not under money pressure (did not ask flegg during his third call, his friends were not piling pressure
- He was just playing the mistress, not serious about moving in with her on the 1st July
4) I think we are likely to hear an explanation in the coming days about the blood in the captiva.
5) They have already provided an explanation to Gerard's injuries with caterpillar and shaving razor induced injuries
6) The new theory that Gerard handed the phone over to Allison every evening.

I get the feeling the prosecution is slightly ahead. GBC realizes that and defence realize that and I think thats the main reason GBC has gotten on the stand. Putting GBC on the stand is a BIG gamble, and why would you take the big gamble and risk everything unless feel the need to? Considering how badly GBC came across in the only public TV interview he gave (I was a little bit hurt thing).

His long spiel is going to be about addressing each of those points the prosection has raised. His latest story about handing over the phones each night has been done to address the who plugged the charger at 1:40 am question. I think in the coming days, we are going to get an explanation on the blood on the captiva. And I have an inking, they are likely to go down the foulplay approach rather than the suicide approach in light of all the information we have had so far. He is also likely to throw TM under the bus to introduce motives or reasonable doubts as to who committed this crime. The calls made between TM and GBC around 5 pm the evening before ABC disappeared, is likely to come under increasing relevance. JMO

A big part of the jury decision will also depend on how well they trust GBC. . He has to explain the following things. If he can convince the jury on the following points, he will walk. Personally I dont think he will.

1) Gerard has been lying/kept things hidden in some way or the other to literally everybody around him. His friends were not repaid the money after 2 or 3 installments. He lied to his wife about his mistress. He misled his mistress apparently over promises made to her about living together. His father was not aware of financial troubles. The shaving injuries are not convincing. If you are a dad in a hurry as gerard was that morning.., would you just stick a bandaid in your face and move on or ask your little daughter to put a band-aid. Can he convince the jury he is speaking the truth this time?

2) His reaction after his wife went missing raised suspicions. He called police too soon and before he called a lot of other people. He did not call Allison's parents to check if she was there. He did not call any of her friends even close ones. I dont think he checked with his neighbors. 'we need to find her' still rings in my ears, and that sounded like they were looking for a pet dog than a missing wife/sis-in-law etc.

3) He said he did everything in the house except breastfeeding. How was it that he ran the business, managed the girls on days allison was incapacitated, did everything except breastfeeding, yet attended conferences interstate, had multiple affairs that he was not proud of and was a leader in community groups is beyond me. Its just physically unrealistic. How did he manage the time?

4) On the one hand, he is bones in the arse. On the other hand, there was no financial pressure..so which is it? If they had 3 kids, $20 in the bank, your life insurance premiums not paid, $400,000 in arrears and you have begged your friend (Flegg) for money, you sure are under some pressure.

5) if it was suicide, how did he go 14 kms? if it was foulplay.. likely the car was involved.. If gerard was not aware.. how did the car get back to the house?

6) For somebody that is not sure of Allison's age and how long they were
married, he sure has very specific memory about which dress was missing and where they were when kieran perkins won gold.. so which? good memory or bad memory.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Why was he photographed doing this, though? I haven't seen the photo so I don't know if it was in the media or a personal photo. But 99% of people who helped in the clean-up did not get photographed, nor did they ask someone to take a photo of themselves cleaning up... sorry, just sounds to me like narcissism all over again.:twocents:

Wasn't he helping clean up his own father's property??

 

[DrWatson]

Doc, do you think this is why G did the big filibuster in court?

Morning Possum - no, I think that is either G just being G, or it is under instructions from his defence team.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Well in one of the US trials, Jodie Arias, went for around three weeks on the stand. Some are very self-centred & just loveee talking about themselves.

Oh my god. That's another one when I felt awful for the family of the victim. I don't know how they sat there and listened to her trash and whine about Travis. (Though I have to admit I enjoyed hearing Juan Martinez destroy her.)

When I was a senior in high school, I got a scholarship from a local business called SICO (I forget know what it stands for), which you say like "psycho". So during the graduation ceremony it was announced, "Jane Doe has also received the SICO award," and some of my classmates audibly giggled. My mom was so hurt and angry because these were people who had no idea what mental illness was or what it was to struggle. It was just their excuse to look down on me. I truly believe that it is no flaw in Allison if she was anxious or depressed, and I think it is nothing a person should be ashamed of. The thing (well one of them) that offends me is that it is being used (IMO) by Gerard, Olivia etc as a derogatory term or an excuse for him to cheat on her.

:heartbeat: to the Dickies and all who love Allison.

ETA to clarify, she didn't care who knew about my problems...she wasn't ashamed of me nor did she think it was something to keep quiet. It was that she knew to THEM it was an insult.

 

[Thinking]

Or

Is this just another BS story to add to rest of the BS?

I'm still shaking my head over him trying to bluff the police that NBC and Olivia didn't know about his affair with TM.:facepalm:

My thoughts are that they most likely knew about the affair up until it ended in Sept 2011, but they mightn't have known it had been rekindled and GBC didn't want them to know this....

 

[Thinking]

At first I thought, "yeah, it's possible his "half an hour" quote is an easy mistake anyone makes" because I know a lot of people who will say, "So i went to the shops/was asleep/dropped into work for maybe half an hour" and they don't realize it was more like 2 hours than half an hour. People tend to inaccurately recall time when they reflect on what they've been doing and how long they took.

However - yes, Mt Cootha is a WEIRD destination to choose. It's basically Brisbane's Make-Out Point! You can see all the cars lined up on the side of the road overlooking the view of the city, and you can gather what people are doing in these cars. Let's just say they're not having a conversation, usually (though I guess you could use it for talking only). And, ahem, this behaviour is not only restricted to inside cars... I saw a couple having intercourse on a picnic blanket on the grass RIGHT below the rotunda area (underneath the telescope) once, at dusk. I burst out laughing in shock and amusement and they gave me a dirty look. Um, I'm not the one doing this in public!

It does seem weird that they chose Make-Out Point to have this conversation. Surrounded by lovey-dovey couples and tourists.

The whole explanation for that Wednesday night has been plain weird to me from the beginning. I always thought the caterpillar story was probably true - but now I have to wonder if the scratches and red eye (seen Thursday morning at cross country) are actually related to that night somehow. Maybe not. I guess we will never know either way.

 

[Cattail]

No I am not suggesting Allison killed herself. But just to correct another myth regarding suicide, someone getting their hair done does not mean they are not suicidal.

Sorry if I appear to be harping on these things, but I feel it's important for people to be aware that sometimes there are no signs, or the signs are not obvious. It may help one of you one day to be informed.

The following is about Charlotte Dawson.

"On the contrary, Charlotte had taken one of her favourite dresses - a floor length green number - out of the closet and slipped it on. She fixed her hair and she had stood in front of the mirror and applied a full set of lush, fake eyelashes, as if to ensure she'd look her best."

http://m.smh.com.au/lifestyle/celeb...re-all-nnn-nnn-vars-o&sa=D&usg=ALhdy28zsr6qiq


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