The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 2nd July - Trial Day 14, Week 3

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The prosecution called NBC and OW ( they would have had a subpoena to attend) because they were first on the scene so to speak therefore it is in the interests of fairness of presenting the case that they got to have their evidence on record. Even if this means that some of what they say may not help the prosecution's case. I also think that they were called early so that their evidence that supports the defence is out there early in the case and there is evidence that later refutes it.
I think OW's evidence that I was in court for, went into minute detail about past depression but when asked if she had any concerns about Allison's mood in that week, OW said no. So the prosecution gave her lots of latitude to ramble on about depression and all the help she gave her. That was good strategy in my opinion as it got it out there then made it simply not relevant to Allison's current mental state.
I call it the taking the wind out of the sails strategy.
 
As much as your proposition may seem attractive, in principle, I can't see it, I'm afraid.

I really don't think that someone who may have just murdered his wife, then taken her 14Km away and disposed of the body (with or without help), and having left three kids at home alone (probably) is going to increase the risk factors by an order of magnitude by returning to Kholo - just to change a pair of pants? What difference was that going to make?

Doc, you are obviously quite a bit brighter than these folk. Rat cunning aside, I can see them doing this.
 
OMG I never even thought of that!

That may have even happened some time AFTER her body was dumped....even a day or so later....once it was realised the "she's gone for a walk" story doesn't fit with her wearing pyjamas.
 
whether he is proved guilty or not and I believe he is , how are the clan going to feel , by his own admission , a liar , a cheat , deceitful , manipulator and at least a 3 time adulterer , none of that can go away
 
That may have even happened some time AFTER her body was dumped....even a day or so later....once it was realised the "she's gone for a walk" story doesn't fit with her wearing pyjamas.

Could he not have dressed her before she was dumped at Kholo?
 
The jury was told that Mrs Baden Clay's phone last registered to the Kenmore cell tower at 8.57pm on the 19th April.
This seems significant to me.
/www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1FLDB_enAU592AU593&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=allisons%20bade
 
whether he is proved guilty or not and I believe he is , how are the clan going to feel , by his own admission , a liar , a cheat , deceitful , manipulator and at least a 3 time adulterer , none of that can go away

Their God may be all-forgiving, but I can't see them trusting him too much.
 
Thoughts: The prosecution finished presenting its case last week based on circumstantial evidence that is very strong. That could have been the end of proceedings and the jury could have retired to consider its verdict last week based on the prosecution case.

The lingering reservation they may have had is "would GBC really kill his wife".

I think the defence made a mistake calling GBC to testify. If the only thing the prosecution can glean out of cross examining GBC is that he is an egotistical liar, cheat and adulterer lacking integrity who is happy to use any person to further his own interest. The jury might then believe he is capable of the crime he is accused of.
 
whether he is proved guilty or not and I believe he is , how are the clan going to feel , by his own admission , a liar , a cheat , deceitful , manipulator and at least a 3 time adulterer , none of that can go away
He has tarnished the Baden name forever...not sure why Olivia took it on to be honest....probably as a show of support....
 
It's yet to be proven how Allison died.

- it is not necessary to prove how she died. Cases are prosecuted without bodies. It's fortunate that an autopsy could be done to prove how she didn't die, therefore the suicide theory won't fly.

[.....]

the more plausible it seems GBC was involved in both Allison's murder and it's cover up (a whole lot of cover up and he's clearly very, very capable of covering his tracks - a proven expert liar who lied and advantaged himself sexually and financially significantly the more he lied in his adult, married/family, community and business life)

The prosecutor needs more evidence.

The jury need more evidence.

WS's are waiting for something about the round about to be revealed.

- I disagree. we know something happened on that night. the last person to see her alive has been proven not just to lie about one thing, but about everything that happened that night. That person also has the motive and means where nobody else reasonably could have. If he can't explain the most basic things, and has weird behaviour and implausible explanations for everything, that's a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to him and nobody else.

Otherwise reasonable doubt exists about:
GBC's movements and motivations and opportunities
and Allison's true state of mind, cause of death and how her body was found;

- I disagree, we had professionals telling us about her state of mind, plus it's proven that she didn't commmit suicide.

and there's:
blood evidence, scratches evidence, a glove tip, proven behaviours;

Plus there's;
lost evidence:
part of Allison's tooth missing, phone missing, charger (?), pj's missing, friend's clothing missing, and nearly (!) one of Allison's runners missing.

- what should be in the house and isn't is just as important as evidence we have. It shows someone in the house was involved.

This is my bit of understanding as a late starter on WS.

I apologise for undoubtedly many glaring gaps to veteran WS's.

Feel free to 'set me straight' on any aspects or details.

Looking forward to being undistracted today in my reading of posts and tweets and stay up on top of the refreshing.

Will some damning evidence come to court today to clearly understand how (and why) Allison died?

GBC IMO was 'killing off' Allison (their marriage and their children's family and future) with what he said about Allison to others, to her and with what he did to her with her knowledge and with what he did without her knowledge; on many levels GBC harmed Allison and for many years he chose not to stop it.

Only family or someone of similar ilk could excuse or condone GBC's choices and actions as a father, as a husband. Better men exist by making better choices.

So, so many married/partnered men (and far fewer women) do same to their spouses and children in Australia and in every other country that it can't be against the law (it's just not practical to lock them all up)

I too would like to see GBC spend his days without the freedom to do it all over again to his next 'partner' and possibly more children, community members, employers, employees and business associates.

He is only going to jail if it's proven he murderer Allison.

jmo

respectfully snipped and my observations offered in bold. Although i'm not a veteran websleuther, i am a veteran crime watcher as i try to understand human behaviour. I think we had great breakthroughs yesterday that will stay in the minds of the jury. I'd better stop now, today's staring....
 
more legal discussion going on..... before trial commences for the day.
 
Could he not have dressed her before she was dumped at Kholo?

I don't think so. I think panic would have set in once it was realised she was dead. Then wanted to get her body out of there asap.

Allison's mum mentioned him being "cool as a cucumber". By that stage he thought he had it all organized & under control.
 
Reposting this as I've changed a couple of points....

Just doing a rewind to yesterday it seems the chequered pyjamas are a big part of this case now. We don't know yet if they were missing or not.

However, if they are missing this is what I'm thinking may have occurred.

I think she was murdered in that bedroom. He dragged her by her feet (see QC Fuller's opening address) out through the door leading onto patio. Her hair & sloppy joe/tracksuit top collects the leaves along the way.

He bundled her body into the Captiva just outside in the carport. '

On the way to Kholo a trickle of blood comes from her mouth or nose or ear. He dumps her under the bridge.

But either at that moment or later, he realises his "she went for a walk" story won't fit with her still wearing pyjamas so "himself" OR "someone else" returns to Kholo with the pair of 3/4 length pants = interfering with a corpse.

I think the interfering with a corpse, is removing her from the home where Allison was already deceased to Kholo.
 
Thoughts: The prosecution finished presenting its case last week based on circumstantial evidence that is very strong. That could have been the end of proceedings and the jury could have retired to consider its verdict last week based on the prosecution case.

The lingering reservation they may have had is "would GBC really kill his wife".

I think the defence made a mistake calling GBC to testify. If the only thing the prosecution can glean out of cross examining GBC is that he is an egotistical liar, cheat and adulterer lacking integrity who is happy to use any person to further his own interest. The jury might then believe he is capable of the crime he is accused of.
His personality (so convinced having working alongside similar people) would have insisted he take the stand..
 
more legal discussion going on.....

Maybe this is where Fuller whips out Allison's blood-stained pyjamas that were found in NBC's garage, but the defence are objecting as they hadn't been notified?

Well, I can use my imagination at least... ;)
 
Thoughts: The prosecution finished presenting its case last week based on circumstantial evidence that is very strong. That could have been the end of proceedings and the jury could have retired to consider its verdict last week based on the prosecution case.

The lingering reservation they may have had is "would GBC really kill his wife".

I think the defence made a mistake calling GBC to testify. If the only thing the prosecution can glean out of cross examining GBC is that he is an egotistical liar, cheat and adulterer lacking integrity who is happy to use any person to further his own interest. The jury might then believe he is capable of the crime he is accused of.

I agree! By taking the stand he has removed any credibility about any aspect of his words and behavior. He admits he will say anything and lie to get what he wants. How can anyone believe a word he says now?
 
is anyone posting tweets? If not, I can do Kate Kyriacou this morning
 
Thoughts: The prosecution finished presenting its case last week based on circumstantial evidence that is very strong. That could have been the end of proceedings and the jury could have retired to consider its verdict last week based on the prosecution case.

The lingering reservation they may have had is "would GBC really kill his wife".

I think the defence made a mistake calling GBC to testify. If the only thing the prosecution can glean out of cross examining GBC is that he is an egotistical liar, cheat and adulterer lacking integrity who is happy to use any person to further his own interest. The jury might then believe he is capable of the crime he is accused of.

big mistake by the defence but big g may have said yeah lets go I can handled these blokes they are only qc s and I am a failed real estate agent, almost bankrupt, president of chamber of commerce school p & c and a good catch , wanna tell em about all the sheilas I have bonked or and how I conned $270k from some mates
 
Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 24s
Fuller says it was not an option for Toni not to go to the real estate conference the next day. #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 16s
Gerard is being asked about any contact between Allison and Toni McHugh if Allison had his phone each night. #badenclay
 
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