The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 2nd July - Trial Day 14, Week 3

[JCB]

I.M.O. MOST of the jury would think he is guilty already, but I think a few will have doubts until the end. I hope not. I definitely think he is guilty . Can someone be convicted on a majority verdict in Qld. now?

No, not for murder.

 

[Tangled_Web]

Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks 37s

He says he wasn't concerned about police questions, but his father and sister were. Neither were present for first cop chat #badenclay

He repeatedly said he wasn't concerned about the police questions that morning but also repeatedly referred to them as "interrogations".

 

[Amee]

Journalists put Baden-Clay trial in jeopardy

A SHERIFF will investigate a juror's note about a journalist and cameraman approaching them during the lunch break.

Justice John Byrne told the juror they were right to bring the matter to him.

Justice Byrne told the jury the media was in a separate room which was why they had not seen them in the courtroom.

He told them the media could see and hear the courtroom.

Justice Byrne described what had happened as "untoward conduct" at first blush and he hoped it would not happen again.

Jurors are not visible on the screens in the media room

http://m.noosanews.com.au/news/journalists-put-baden-clay-trial-jeopardy/2304290/

 

[Trooper]

I wonder if there are witnesses who could counter Gerard's claims that he indeed had no sex with Allison for some years, and on other things as well. May be friends or doctors could provide something like Allison's own words on her sex life or prescriptions for the pill from GP? If one false claim is exposed then it will be easier for the jury to disbelieve him.
Anyway, the prosecution looks disappointing. The had 2 years to prepare but their case still does not look very solid. IMHO

we only have Gerards claim that he himself is having sex from Darwin to Sydney... it's quite possible . in fact, its highly probable, that Gerard has a severe sexual dysfunction.. from his own testimony, even though he starts off by saying he 'only wanted sex'.. he doesn't seem to be exactly up for it, if I may use that term .. he says Toni instigated it.. he says ,he had to get a days advance preparation for his assignation in Sydney with Ms Chrane. He says Toni always wanted it.. not him.. He implied he was always bullied into it.... it just landed on his doorstep, .. somehow he accidentally fell over and there it was..

And if Gerard is claiming to be all over it, all the time, .. is that a lie?? quite possibly.. considering his inability to grasp truth at any time.

 

[Brightbird]

I.M.O. MOST of the jury would think he is guilty already, but I think a few will have doubts until the end. I hope not. I definitely think he is guilty . Can someone be convicted on a majority verdict in Qld. now?

They can have doubt, just not reasonable doubt.

 

[catswhiskers]

I have a feeling there were indeed LOADS of women, many more than the three named in court. If I was T McH I would be thanking my lucky stars that it wasn't her that was bumped off. But that's right, she didn't have a life insurance policy naming GBC as the beneficiary. If you add 2 & 2 together, you get 4. I'm sure the jury are sensible people who take their time to go through all the evidence and come to the only possible conclusion - GUILTY. MOO.

I think that any male friends, acquaintances, work colleagues, business partners and even clients, could be forgiven for any suspicious sideways glances they may be casting in their significant others' directions over the past week. I reckon they'd have all been fair game for GBC over the years - he'd probably have a crack at anyone in a skirt just for the sport of it.

 

[Cattail]

I may be going against the majority here on saying I did not have a problem with the defence psychologist.

I don't think he helped their case because as I have said before the location she was found with no car is the sticking point for me with the suicide theory.

However my interpretation was that he commented on what he gleaned from her doctors' notes with regard to her depression.

And his comments on suicide were all general statements none of which he specifically applied to Allison except when the prosecution asked him to.

All due respect to all medical people - but all the knowledge in the world cannot predict some things.

 

[heloise]

Getting back to the subject of the "roundabout", I.M.O. I do not think he would have travelled to Anstead that way - too many bright lights!. I think he would have turned right, passed the showground, turned into Rafting Ground Rd then along the short distance to Pullenvale Rd, then into Grandview Rd until he came to Lancing St. and onto MT. Crosby Rd. that way. Less chance of bumping into police that way. I have lived in the area since '68 and if you want to avoid police presence, that is the way to go- [although I have been booked a few times on Pullenvale Rd!] The last thing he would want would be an R.B.T.

What I don't understand is why no suggestion of travel from Brookfield to Kholo Creek has been mentioned in the trial. ? There was a lot of police work going on at the Kenmore roundabout, etc, but nothing about that was mentioned in the trial. I agree that the back way - through Rafting Ground Road - would be the obvious route, and quicker. Also no mention of the B-C affiliation with scout property at Kholo Creek. ??? Can anyone say why not?

 

[catswhiskers]

Gerard Baden-Clay changed routine that morning

NORMALLY Gerard Baden-Clay would shower first to let his skin "wake up" before shaving.

But the morning he reported his wife Allison missing he did not.

"I actually shaved first, ummm and then showered," he said.

http://m.noosanews.com.au/news/baden-clay-affair-because-he-just-wanted-sex/2304989/

I wonder why he felt the need to point out the change in routine himself? It's not the only time he has offered extra info without prompting - makes him look even dodgier.

 

[spratsmum]

Sorry GBC you lost me by opening your mouth, I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you are a liar and user of people, your opinion and user of women is deplorable. You are a callous, selfish individual, I don't know how you did it and I don't know who helped you, but to deprive you daughters of their mother was a dastardly act. It seems to me you haven;t been honest about one thing in your life, you have reinforced all of the worst stereotypes in your industry. I really do hope that one day your daughters can have some type of relationship with you for there sakes.

You are a cruel, deceitful man. I hope you live a long life in Arthur Gorrie and have many lonely hours to contemplate what you have done. RIP Allison, you no longer have to tolerate a man who main role in life was to belittle and drag you down.

 

[royster]

we only have Gerards claim that he himself is having sex from Darwin to Sydney... it's quite possible . in fact, its highly probable, that Gerard has a severe sexual dysfunction.. from his own testimony, even though he starts off by saying he 'only wanted sex'.. he doesn't seem to be exactly up for it, if I may use that term .. he says Toni instigated it.. he says ,he had to get a days advance preparation for his assignation in Sydney with Ms Chrane. He says Toni always wanted it.. not him.. He implied he was always bullied into it.... it just landed on his doorstep, .. somehow he accidentally fell over and there it was..

And if Gerard is claiming to be all over it, all the time, .. is that a lie?? quite possibly.. considering his inability to grasp truth at any time.

I think he was up for it - quality of it .... Different matter entirely !

 

[Cattail]

The longer I think about the case, and the way it was conducted by each side, I'm starting to get the feeling that perhaps, just maybe, the prosecution could be in front.
Theirs was the more coherent story, despite the evidence being entirely circumstantial.

It exposed GBC's character with all (?some) its flaws. It exposed him as a liar, a cheat, a manipulator, and someone with no scruples at all. It also exposed him as being under immense pressure from multiple angles - financial, marital, mistress piling it on, etc etc.

The defence, on the other hand, doggedly persisted with the notion of Allison's alleged depression, and the possibility of suicide. And not very convincingly. The suicide by Zolft idea was basically zapped. She didn't drown. No explanation of an alternative scenario, particularly regarding how she got to Kholo, where her phone was, the pyjamas, etc etc.

OK - I know it is not up to the defence to prove what DID happen - they only have to provide sufficient doubt as to GBC's guilt. But apart from the suicide angle, I really couldn't see that they introduced ANY other reason to doubt his guilt.

Even the last couple of defence witnesses basically just added to the prosecution's case.

It will all come down to the closing addresses, and particularly the judge's summing up and how he slants it, or if he makes any recommendations.

Looks like not much work going to get done in the first half of next week either!

Personally I think it will all come down to who ties things together better in their closing statements.

As you have all kept up with the trial I have noticed many many many comments of yes that happened, when will we get to this, that's not what they said before etc.

To the jury this is all new information delivered at times in boring ways. Eg 100 (yes an exaggeration).people to say the cuts were not made by a razor.

They are human, there will have been times when their minds wandered. And in this trial there was no "Gotcha" moment, no movie like revelations of fingerprints or blood stained clothes. No sit up and take notice now moment.

So I believe it will come down very much to who can tie it all together without being so long winded they lose the jury in the process.

 

[Consider]

G suddenly wasn't concerned about TM's mental state or placating her once he realised he was a suspect. "Find someone else to love. It's not looking good for me. Move on!"

There's no GBC in : 'partner', 'forever'

GBC gotta focus on ME ME ME

 

[they'll get you]

I bet they come forward when "New Idea" etc offers the $$$ for their stories - ewwwww - I really don't need to read about their sexual encounters with GBC (not that I'm a New Idea reader anyway). But mark my word, it will happen.

He'd better refrain from saying he loves sex where he's going.

Allison was sleeping with an enemy. absolute betrayal.

Imagine working in the tuck shop and being told about your husbands affairs??
PANIC ATTACK OF EMBARRASSMENT!
Now where's that ice pick.

Allison was a better person than me. For sure.

 

[possumheart]

Personally I think it will all come down to who ties things together better in their closing statements.

As you have all kept up with the trial I have noticed many many many comments of yes that happened, when will we get to this, that's not what they said before etc.

To the jury this is all new information delivered at times in boring ways. Eg 100 (yes an exaggeration).people to say the cuts were not made by a razor.

They are human, there will have been times when their minds wandered. And in this trial there was no "Gotcha" moment, no movie like revelations of fingerprints or blood stained clothes. No sit up and take notice now moment.

So I believe it will come down very much to who can tie it all together without being so long winded they lose the jury in the process.

I respectfully disagree, this is neither a football match nor an eisteddfod - this is deadly serious. It isn't about which side gives a more exciting show. It is about three little girls and their future and we mustn't forget that.

 

[Amee]

He did whatif! Thank you for reassuring me that I'm remembering correctly. NBC definitely said that right?

Mr Baden-Clay Snr told the court of the moment he learnt Allison's body had been located.

"The police came to Gerard's office, I happened to be in Gerard's office at the time, and the police came to Gerard's office to tell him," he said.

"But we had actually heard before that because it was actually on the internet before the police got to his office.

"We were aware a body had been found under the Kohlo Creek Bridge."

http://m.noosanews.com.au/news/murder-trial-gerard-baden-clay-second-week/2290111/

 

[Snails]

I think that any male friends, acquaintances, work colleagues, business partners and even clients, could be forgiven for any suspicious sideways glances they may be casting in their significant others' directions over the past week. I reckon they'd have all been fair game for GBC over the years - he'd probably have a crack at anyone in a skirt just for the sport of it.

Interesting reading if you have time -

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq29.html

"Still, sex for both types of narcissists is an instrument designed to increase the number of Sources of Narcissistic Supply. If it happens to be the most efficient weapon in the narcissist's arsenal, he makes profligate use of it. In other words: if the narcissist cannot obtain adoration, admiration, approval, applause, or any other kind of attention by other means (e.g., intellectually) – he resorts to sex."

 

[Thinking]

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 49s

Dr Schramm says he's dealing with scant notes and hadn't interviewed Allison #badenclay

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 35s

'But, as I say, I've never interviewed her,' Dr Schram says. #badenclay

What a waste of time!

 

[Thinking]

And wonder where Hawkins went?

And KeentoKnow? Will she be here with us for the final moments, hopefully the fireworks will be necessary?

 

[Cattail]

I respectfully disagree, this is neither a football match nor an eisteddfod - this is deadly serious. It isn't about which side gives a more exciting show. It is about three little girls and their future and we mustn't forget that.

Respectfully too I did not mean my comments in the way you seem to have taken them.